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Luke
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Message 983831 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 7:23:37 UTC - in response to Message 983825.  

...Gusts are hitting the mobilehome were ar 43mph, now their a bit lower at 36mph...


You call that a gust??? LOL. That's a daily occurrence here.

62mph is reasonable, 74mph is monthly, 83mph perhaps thrice a year - you got it lucky.
- Luke.
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Luke
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Message 983832 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 7:25:08 UTC - in response to Message 983827.  

It involves building a wind turbine and some solar panels(link! to power the Core i7 system as well. It's always windy here - I'm on top of a hill and I live in New Zealand, perfect combination. LOL.

Now if you could work out a way to capture the methane from all those sheep... ;-P

F.


LOL. It's true. For every 1 person here, we have 16 sheep.
- Luke.
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Luke
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Message 983834 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 7:27:51 UTC - in response to Message 983828.  

Maybe you could go all 'eco-friendly' and build a 'wind-farm'. On the other hand, how do you 'farm' wind....aside from having lots of people eat beans and produce Methane, which is then used to drive a generator, via a gas turbine? lol







LOL. Funny you mention it. I'm planning on giving my much smaller den a rewire to handle larger capacities as well as Mark.

It involves building a wind turbine and some solar panels(link! to power the Core i7 system as well. It's always windy here - I'm on top of a hill and I live in New Zealand, perfect combination. LOL.

I am not sure right now which technology has the upper hand as far as watt/dollar payback right now.
I have read about massive solar cell farms being built.......
And wind turbine farms are popping up all over the midwestern USA.

I think the limiting factor at the moment might be the square footage required to set up a solar collection farm VS the smaller amount of land required to erect a large number of wind turbines.

The other factor is the 'not in my backyard' mentality concerning the erection of the wind turbines.....there is some noise generated. Whereas a solar installation is rather benign except for the space required.

And the there are the solar collection farms, which collect the heat energy and convert it to steam rather than directly to electricity via solar cells.

As far as I am concerned, any and all such approaches are admirable. I had many years ago actually considered erecting a wind turbine on my back lot. Until I found that there were local ordinances in place that would have made it impossible for me to do so.



Wind is more reliable than solar here - but the latter can be very useful as well. Not sure about WI, but I'd take a guess that wind was better.

Solar is in it's infancy. Current cells have an efficiency of less than 10%.

As for noise, I've heard that home built wind turbines cannot be heard, since the wind is usually louder.

It's all about saving money in my opinion, and to do that, you have to spend money.
- Luke.
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Message 983836 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 7:28:45 UTC - in response to Message 983828.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2010, 7:33:09 UTC

Maybe you could go all 'eco-friendly' and build a 'wind-farm'. On the other hand, how do you 'farm' wind....aside from having lots of people eat beans and produce Methane, which is then used to drive a generator, via a gas turbine? lol







LOL. Funny you mention it. I'm planning on giving my much smaller den a rewire to handle larger capacities as well as Mark.

It involves building a wind turbine and some solar panels(link! to power the Core i7 system as well. It's always windy here - I'm on top of a hill and I live in New Zealand, perfect combination. LOL.

I am not sure right now which technology has the upper hand as far as watt/dollar payback right now.
I have read about massive solar cell farms being built.......
And wind turbine farms are popping up all over the midwestern USA.

I think the limiting factor at the moment might be the square footage required to set up a solar collection farm VS the smaller amount of land required to erect a large number of wind turbines.

The other factor is the 'not in my backyard' mentality concerning the erection of the wind turbines.....there is some noise generated. Whereas a solar installation is rather benign except for the space required.

And the there are the solar collection farms, which collect the heat energy and convert it to steam rather than directly to electricity via solar cells.

As far as I am concerned, any and all such approaches are admirable. I had many years ago actually considered erecting a wind turbine on my back lot. Until I found that there were local ordinances in place that would have made it impossible for me to do so.


Out here It's not so much Nimbies, As It's the wildlife(Mountain Sheep, foxes, Pumas, etc, Not people), Some areas are good for that and some areas are good for solar and wind farms, Animals have to have a place to live too, As this is their planet too. My friend is a part of the Sheep Society and the Sheep Society has watering holes for animals in the desert complete with cameras for day or night photography, People thought there's nothing but empty desert out there. It's just that the animals don't want to be bothered and are afraid of people for good reason, We're the top predator, Bar none. Don't tell a polar bear that of course, They only fear drowning. :D
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Message 983839 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 7:39:39 UTC - in response to Message 983821.  

Maybe you could go all 'eco-friendly' and build a 'wind-farm'. On the other hand, how do you 'farm' wind....aside from having lots of people eat beans and produce Methane, which is then used to drive a generator, via a gas turbine? lol







LOL. Funny you mention it. I'm planning on giving my much smaller den a rewire to handle larger capacities as well as Mark.

It involves building a wind turbine and some solar panels(link! to power the Core i7 system as well. It's always windy here - I'm on top of a hill and I live in New Zealand, perfect combination. LOL.

If I can't talk you out of the idea (it will be very costly), then you may want to look at this web site. I found it when I was looking into constructing a solar panel for someone who was going to be doing a large amount of camping away from power. It didn't work out so I never got around to building the panel.
While I was checking the link, it appears they moved to here
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Message 984655 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 2:04:59 UTC - in response to Message 983758.  


The biggest Amp outlet for a residential(a house) 120v that I've seen is 20 Amps, And sure there are other outlets that could be used for 120v, But their twist locks and those aren't found in any home I've ever seen or lived in, New or Old. And yeah there are higher Amped breakers like 30, 40, 50 & 60 Amp breakers, But usually their used for 240v, Most electricians I've talked to won't wire up a 30A breaker to 120v as I've been told there are no 30A outlets(receptacles) and It would be unsafe as a result, possible fire danger I've been told.

Hmmmm?



LH 240V 20 & 30A, RH 120V 20 & 30A

(inside my house, in the basement to be exact) ;)
Comeon over, that way you can say you have seen it in person! *grins*

Looks like the bottom twist lock is missing a screw for the cover...LOL Just notice things like that.

Yep, I know, one of the last details I will attend to just before I tie them into the breakers. I still need to feed a 30A 120 downstream run to my family room, putting in a big UPS there as well to protect my audio/video equipment. Just too many projects, but one by one, we're gettin there.


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Message 984676 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 3:58:47 UTC - in response to Message 984655.  


The biggest Amp outlet for a residential(a house) 120v that I've seen is 20 Amps, And sure there are other outlets that could be used for 120v, But their twist locks and those aren't found in any home I've ever seen or lived in, New or Old. And yeah there are higher Amped breakers like 30, 40, 50 & 60 Amp breakers, But usually their used for 240v, Most electricians I've talked to won't wire up a 30A breaker to 120v as I've been told there are no 30A outlets(receptacles) and It would be unsafe as a result, possible fire danger I've been told.

Hmmmm?



LH 240V 20 & 30A, RH 120V 20 & 30A

(inside my house, in the basement to be exact) ;)
Comeon over, that way you can say you have seen it in person! *grins*

Looks like the bottom twist lock is missing a screw for the cover...LOL Just notice things like that.

Yep, I know, one of the last details I will attend to just before I tie them into the breakers. I still need to feed a 30A 120 downstream run to my family room, putting in a big UPS there as well to protect my audio/video equipment. Just too many projects, but one by one, we're gettin there.

Yeah I hear Ya, Do I ever, As It's the same here, Lots of projects and too few dollars to chase them with, Heck My relatives came over today and dropped off a few groceries and yep dinner. Dinner was good, The rest of the food is either in the refrige or on the shelf now. :D
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Message 984720 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 6:58:19 UTC

Please remind me not to shut the rigs down in a fit of stupidity again.
Both the Frozen Nehi and the 920 rig threw absolute hissy fits upon being restarted.
The Nehi does it every time, and I know the workaround...it's stupid, but I have to go into the bios and change the data transfer rate, let it boot, restart, set the data transfer rate back up again, and it takes off.
The 920 rig took almost an hour of coaxing to get it to shake off whatever was bugging it and finally start crunching again.

Man, these OC'd beasts can be cantankerous.

I hope when I do the power upgrade and finally get around to restarting the other 5 rigs they don't put up quite as much of a fight.

Meow meow.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 984721 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 7:01:13 UTC - in response to Message 984720.  

Please remind me not to shut the rigs down in a fit of stupidity again.
Both the Frozen Nehi and the 920 rig threw absolute hissy fits upon being restarted.
The Nehi does it every time, and I know the workaround...it's stupid, but I have to go into the bios and change the data transfer rate, let it boot, restart, set the data transfer rate back up again, and it takes off.
The 920 rig took almost an hour of coaxing to get it to shake off whatever was bugging it and finally start crunching again.

Man, these OC'd beasts can be cantankerous.

I hope when I do the power upgrade and finally get around to restarting the other 5 rigs they don't put up quite as much of a fight.

Meow meow.

Good Luck Mark, Me I just updated My thread, The one with the Asus P7P55D Pro, It even has a picture with another to come soon. :D
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Message 984940 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 20:32:26 UTC - in response to Message 984720.  

Please remind me not to shut the rigs down in a fit of stupidity again.
Both the Frozen Nehi and the 920 rig threw absolute hissy fits upon being restarted.
The Nehi does it every time, and I know the workaround...it's stupid, but I have to go into the bios and change the data transfer rate, let it boot, restart, set the data transfer rate back up again, and it takes off.
The 920 rig took almost an hour of coaxing to get it to shake off whatever was bugging it and finally start crunching again.

Man, these OC'd beasts can be cantankerous.

I hope when I do the power upgrade and finally get around to restarting the other 5 rigs they don't put up quite as much of a fight.

Meow meow.

I suspect what you are dealing with is digital hardware is designed to work over a wide temperature range but to do that the clock speed must be reduced. When you bump the speed, you are trading off the temperature range the chip will function in. You have an additional complexity when you boot because the hardware is not generating the same amount of heat to keep you in that sweet spot.
If it were any other type of hardware, I would recommend that it be constructed with Military grade parts which work over a far larger range. The problem is that Military grade parts have a very limited selection available and the cost is far more.
If you could control the chip temperature better, I suspect you could start the system without altering the clock speed, but as it is, I think you have found the best solution to get things restarted.
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Message 984974 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 22:37:14 UTC - in response to Message 984940.  

Please remind me not to shut the rigs down in a fit of stupidity again.
Both the Frozen Nehi and the 920 rig threw absolute hissy fits upon being restarted.
The Nehi does it every time, and I know the workaround...it's stupid, but I have to go into the bios and change the data transfer rate, let it boot, restart, set the data transfer rate back up again, and it takes off.
The 920 rig took almost an hour of coaxing to get it to shake off whatever was bugging it and finally start crunching again.

Man, these OC'd beasts can be cantankerous.

I hope when I do the power upgrade and finally get around to restarting the other 5 rigs they don't put up quite as much of a fight.

Meow meow.

I suspect what you are dealing with is digital hardware is designed to work over a wide temperature range but to do that the clock speed must be reduced. When you bump the speed, you are trading off the temperature range the chip will function in. You have an additional complexity when you boot because the hardware is not generating the same amount of heat to keep you in that sweet spot.
If it were any other type of hardware, I would recommend that it be constructed with Military grade parts which work over a far larger range. The problem is that Military grade parts have a very limited selection available and the cost is far more.
If you could control the chip temperature better, I suspect you could start the system without altering the clock speed, but as it is, I think you have found the best solution to get things restarted.



Some years ago, there was the idea postulated, that, over-clocked CPUs, became 'imprinted' and I have found some evidence of this, personally. I suspect that what The Kittyman is dealing with is, given the nature of the 'shut-down', finding the BIOS settings that work for his particular use. Basically, he is starting from scratch (BIOS fail-safe, I suspect) and 'working it up' - many BIOS's simply revert to 'basic' settings - I've had this happen with my humble MSI Platinum P35 Express.

Military spec parts? Biggest rip-off ever invented, by companies whose stuff was hard-pressed to be acceptable to large companies with high standards. In essence, all that 'miltary spec' means, is that it is tested a bit more. Where I used to work, we had 'military spec' materials, which were the same ones as used by Caterpillar, Solar Turbines, EMD, Garrett, Ruston Diesels, Alsthom, GEC, B&W and Wartsila...you get the picture. Sometimes, as my deceased younger brother pointed out, it meant, how each part was wrapped! Same material, same product, different wrapping paper, was about right. This is why a 'standard' stainless steel bolt for the military, costs several times (at least) more, than one you'll buy in a local hardware store!




Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 984980 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 22:51:07 UTC - in response to Message 984974.  

Military spec parts? Biggest rip-off ever invented, by companies whose stuff was hard-pressed to be acceptable to large companies with high standards. In essence, all that 'miltary spec' means, is that it is tested a bit more.

Additional testing is a valid requirement and a valid expense for certain applications. You wouldn't want the bolts holding the turret on your tank to sheer off in the middle of battle.

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Message 984984 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 23:08:10 UTC

Just a little aside on the same vain.
I decided that it was time to give the Rig on a Bench a dust down today.
The Antec case that houses it allows the chassis to move out thus giving better access.
The only problem is that the leads to the usb and 1394 sockets and others have to be disconnected. They are just not long enough.
With leads duly disconnected I proceeded to GENTLY blow dry compressed air over it and into cooler fins.
All went well until I came to reboot it.
Just would not have it,all leads replaced or so I thought!
I spent the best part of 2 hours taking leads of checking and double checking,I even cleared the cmos still no joy.
Then I noticed 1 lead I had forgotten, the 4 PIN POWER LEAD to the mobo for the CPU.
With that connected it booted first time.
I did cuss a little but I have no one to blame but myself.

Dave
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Message 984985 - Posted: 28 Mar 2010, 23:10:12 UTC - in response to Message 984980.  

Military spec parts? Biggest rip-off ever invented, by companies whose stuff was hard-pressed to be acceptable to large companies with high standards. In essence, all that 'miltary spec' means, is that it is tested a bit more.

Additional testing is a valid requirement and a valid expense for certain applications. You wouldn't want the bolts holding the turret on your tank to sheer off in the middle of battle.



With any good company, with an active QC system, there should be no need, or excuse for additional testing. Testing batch components, should not incur an nth-fold increase in component cost, as often seen in 'military spec' parts. Turrets...the company I worked for, made the materials upon which turrets moved! The RMS Titanic is a classic example of pennies being saved, on the known use of inferior items to save cost...in that case, hull rivets. Big mistake.




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Message 985032 - Posted: 29 Mar 2010, 4:11:07 UTC - in response to Message 984985.  

With any good company, with an active QC system, there should be no need, or excuse for additional testing.
When I got into semiconductors in 1974, the standard temperature spec range for military was -55 to +125C, compared to 0 to 70 for commercial, and the spec power supply voltage tolerance was 10% rather than 5%.

If you think one can ship semiconductor parts to meet the military temp and voltage range differences alone based on passing the commercial part requirements with no testing verification at satisfactory quality level you are simply mistaken.

Now, the question of whether you actually need the extra capability, in these or any other respects, is another matter entirely. Plenty of applications don't, including plenty of military applications which is one reason for the explosion in usage of COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) parts preference in many military procurements.

As to those insane profits from making mil-spec parts, they were insane enough that my employer exited the business. If the world's highest profit-making semiconductor manufacturer leaves a business, you can be sure they did not find it to be a gold mine for them.

Again, some corners of the business may be making wonderful money charging a lot for nothing, but your generalizations are wildly free of the mark.

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Message 985039 - Posted: 29 Mar 2010, 5:37:26 UTC

What is going on? Ghost in the code? Too many ions? Major sun spot eruption? MY UPS just went toes up.
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Message 985106 - Posted: 29 Mar 2010, 17:19:15 UTC - in response to Message 985032.  

With any good company, with an active QC system, there should be no need, or excuse for additional testing.
When I got into semiconductors in 1974, the standard temperature spec range for military was -55 to +125C, compared to 0 to 70 for commercial, and the spec power supply voltage tolerance was 10% rather than 5%.

I used to work in the defense industry.

There is another factor, which explains things like $500 toilet seats.

When a vendor supplies something to the military, they are required to provide things like tool kits, and they're required to have spare (replacement) parts for the supplied system, including tool kits and other supplies for the life of the system.

If (let's say it's an aircraft) has a toilet, they have to supply toilet seats for at least ten years.

... and they cannot substitute. It has to be the same toilet seat design, manufacture and model as originally supplied.

So, somewhere there is a warehouse full of toilet seats, purchased from the original vendor, of the exact "accepted" design.

If there is a hammer in the tool kit, or a wrench, those parts are also stockpiled.

Box after box of solder, and screws, and whatever else because it's cheaper to just stack 'em all up than to make a few later -- especially if the original manufacturer (the guy Rockwell bought hammers from) has an "improved" hammer and discontinues the old one, or simply goes out of business.
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Message 985455 - Posted: 31 Mar 2010, 1:16:46 UTC

"Then I noticed 1 lead I had forgotten, the 4 PIN POWER LEAD to the mobo for the CPU."

I did the exact thing this weekend. Started building a new rig Thursday night and Friday powered it on. Everything spins up but nothing happens, no beep code, no boot. Looked at it a few times Saturday morning and finally took the whole thing apart. As I was taking the MB out I noticed the 4pin and slapped myself as I saw the power cable tied in the bundle with the other unused cables.....

dave
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Message 985574 - Posted: 31 Mar 2010, 16:35:08 UTC

OK guys and gurlz....

Got a start on the power rewire...
Bored the hole through the floor and strung 50' of the 6/3 through the basement. The length worked out just right. Will probably stub the cable into the main box and install the 50amp breaker tomorrow. Then I can start to assemble the branch cables and receptacle boxes.

One question...I have gotten a bit rusty on this.
At the mains, the neutral and ground are bonded together and also connected to the earth ground rods and the water mains ground. So really, neutral and ground are one and the same, and any of the lugs on the neutral/ground bus bars can be used for either connection. I believe the bus is bonded to the enclosure box as well.

I seem to recall that there were certain situations where a in a subfeed box this was OK too....but sometimes it was not, and the correct thing was to have isolated neutral and ground buses. And I am not sure whether to bond the ground to the enclosure or not, although I think that was correct.

If I need to keep neutral and ground isolated in the subfeed, I shall have to get an additional isolated ground bus kit, as the box only has 3 buses in it, L1, L2, and neutral.

Any advice from somebody who is current on this? (No pun intended, sparkys).
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 985603 - Posted: 31 Mar 2010, 18:03:14 UTC

Have you Tried reading from this site. It may explain what you are asking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

Michael.
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