The point I see here is that the Linux kernel is more robust, and thus can be applied to more things, such as strange old keyboard layouts.

:-)

The point I see here is that the Linux kernel is more robust, and thus can be applied to more things, such as strange old keyboard layouts.

:-)

kernel? don't you mean pty?

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This is going to be my new favorite thread. :-0

Ill start by saying, I'm a user of Windows AND Linux

Where does Linux stand right now? Well I think it's safe to say, it's here, it's become embedded in our devices (android) and hence our lives.

I do NOT see any death coming to the Linux kernel.

That being said, the Linux world is definitely at a crossroads both with gnome3 and unity, as has been mentioned these front ends are either loved or hated. As well as Microsoft's current EFI ploy to push out other OS's. (Please note, microsoft has tried things like this in the past, and has been unsuccessful. I think at most, you will find that cheap end user pcs could no longer support linux. But most parts makers, and anyone selling into business, will see the need to make sure their boards can support any installation. I don't think locking out Linux would help any manufacturer, and I think in the business world Linux is on way more machines than is currently estimated.)

Personally, I believe these flashy front ends, and (sometimes buggy) modern hardware support are going to be necessary in order to push Linux along to the home user. Ubuntu for example has come a long way in making linux more friendly for the everyday user, however I feel there is much work to do, both in the UI area and the stability/bugs department: The kernels are stable as stable can be (especially the slightly "older" ones), however the front ends do not always make things simple for computer illiterate users. Linux distros in my opinion (if aiming for home users on their laptops and soon-to-be extinct desktops) need to follow buntu's example and find seamless GUI integration of ALL features. You CANNOT expect or ask the average american to do *anything* in a command line, this practice alone could and does limit Linux to the enterprise and specialty machines areas.

On the other hand, (and this is why I love and use linux): If you are an experienced power user, I think it's only natural to end up experimenting with linux. It's robust, and once you learn it's differences and what it can do, you may never stop working with it. I know I can never turn back to a windows only network. On my most powerful machines, I opt for command line only server type installs, which I then use "dumb" clients to control. The command line may not be a friendly place, but if your using a client with a GUI, then all of a sudden you can do as much simultaneous computing as you desire through GUI windows from the server and ssh terminals controlling the server. I feel setups involving Linux have almost no limits, especially when compared to their windows counterparts.

Even today, I still use windows, but I no longer run it natively on any machine. I run windows inside Virtual Machines on Linux. Windows runs better inside Linux than it ever ran natively on a real machine. I that's proof positive which OS has the upper hand and is playing a whole different ballgame.

So I am not worried about a death to Linux, however I am concerned about it being adopted by everyday users. I don't know which way will be best, only time will tell. I do feel that forking a whole lot of the work back into some sort of standards is not a bad choice. There could and would still be choice, there is no limit to the combination of packages and front ends you can use with the Linux kernels, there will always be several flavors.

That said, I think each distro should be taking packages specific to their flavor of front end, and forking the mess of wares together, so that in essence you have a complete front-end "module" of sorts, one specific modular front end for each distro, built onto a base generic install. This gives you your flavors, better stability, and still the ability to have a generic kernel you can build with base packages and avoid a front end altogether.

Just some thought from an everyday computer geek

-Dave

kernel? don't you mean pty?

Sure. Or "Linux based installs". Point being you wont find GPL work and features like that in windows. :-)

Great post. A pleasure to read.

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This is going to be my new favorite thread. :-0

Ill start by saying, I'm a user of Windows AND Linux

Hey! Good stuff and all the more interesting.

Where does Linux stand right now? ...

[Much good comment]

...

So I am not worried about a death to Linux, however I am concerned about it being adopted by everyday users. I don't know which way will be best, only time will tell. I do feel that forking a whole lot of the work back into some sort of standards is not a bad choice. There could and would still be choice, there is no limit to the combination of packages and front ends you can use with the Linux kernels, there will always be several flavors.

That said, I think each distro should be taking packages specific to their flavor of front end, and forking the mess of wares together, so that in essence you have a complete front-end "module" of sorts, one specific modular front end for each distro, built onto a base generic install. This gives you your flavors, better stability, and still the ability to have a generic kernel you can build with base packages and avoid a front end altogether.

Honestly developed standards are good. Unfortunately, certain big corporates have also put great effort into pushing "standards" that are just a deliberate turgid waste of time for everyone... The wasteful ones aside, honest standards greatly promote development and creativity for everyone.

In Linux distros, we already have the 'modular' approach you describe, so that you can build up a system almost like building up a layer cake of "lego bricks". The 'standards' in there are what naturally evolve from creative collaboration amongst the developers.

I guess a users view is that the choice soon becomes too bewildering, which is where the various selections of Linux distros helps.

I worry a little about the collateral damage being wrought from the present MAD of patents and copyright wars that have been unleashed... Even the great SCO debacle is writhing yet some more from the grave of SCO's bankruptcy.

Just some thought from an everyday computer geek

Good to share some thoughts,

Thanks,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I worry a little about the collateral damage being wrought from the present MAD of patents and copyright wars that have been unleashed... Even the great SCO debacle is writhing yet some more from the grave of SCO's bankruptcy.

I think this SCO stuff will die out.... They are like crying babies with this stuff... Hopefully they get nothing.
And as far as the patent wars.... Well you may know better than me, but I don't think any important parts of the Linux operating system will be subjected to any legal issues.

Apple is going all sorts of crazy with these fantasy attacks on innocent people, crying babies like SCO IMHO.

However they always have held up their end of the Open Source bargain, i.e. they put everything back that they are required to (Darwin, (not that its worth much currently) and a whole slew of softwares). With their support of Open source I can't see them coming after us, but with the way they are acting lately maybe I could be totally wrong.

-Dave

Apologies. I had assumed you were aware the only difference between a server and desktop computer is the software they run.

erm.... and different harddrive setups, and different processor architectures, and different motherboard layouts, different chipsets, different types of ram, different expansion slots, different hardware/user interfaces (SCSI, IPMI, TPM, etc. etc.), oh and different network interface setups. to name a few.

Sure a desktop machine can be used as a server, and a server can be used as a desktop (we call these workstations). Some servers (like mine) look like a desktop pc, but there are distinct differences in the hardware of what is considered a desktop and that of what is considered a server.

-Dave

question martin, what can any virus, malware, etc do when you are logged as normal user with uac on and have safetyword on normal account?

answer is : nada

Not true. (in windows anyways) all it takes is a security hole. You can have a virus download and install itself through a hole in out of date browser extensions for example, just by surfing the web. These holes (flaws) are exploited for the very reason that they allow root access and can often bypass user account control.

Absolutely priceless! Who needs Fort Knox?

Probably one of the few companies using Microsoft Windows Server

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Linux is a Unix-like computer operating system assembled under the model of free and open source software development and distribution. The defining component of Linux is the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released October 5, 1991 by Linus Torvalds.

It is good for some things but it will never be a mainstream OS. The majority of the world chooses to be Wintel, so get used to it.

Your "majority of the world" have a fair and free(dom of) choice?...


IT is what we make it...
Martin

yes, the majority of the world have freedom, and in fairness, they have choose to use windows, and will not use linux, for obvious reasons.

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"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exist elsewhere in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin to the Hobbes

Absolutely priceless! Who needs Fort Knox?

Probably one of the few companies using Microsoft Windows Server

She also said that unverified reports point to a 'Central American gang that broke into the company's system by answering the application's knowledge-based authentication questions correctly.

'Looks like the hackers took over an administrative account that was not protected sufficiently.'

Sounds like a failure of a carbon based computer unit. Can you say pretexting?

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yes, the majority of the world have freedom, and in fairness, they have choose to use windows, and will not use linux, for obvious reasons.

I'm not gonna get into a whole "thing" here on the subject of one vs. the other.

However, I'm wondering if you've ever heard of Android..

(It's a rhetorical question. No answer necessary)

Maybe your not aware of the Businesses, schools, and GOVERNMENTS across the planet that have been making the switch in recent years?

(Again, rhetorical question.)

Be well
-Dave

I wanted to add this screenshot of mine. It's a symbol of peace between O.S.'s

Vger is looking for the Creator.

I love the reference. :-) I wonder who else will miss or get that.

Briefly, after a rather long wait:


First Raspberry Pi computers to be delivered

The first batch of Raspberry Pi computers are being issued to users.

A group of schoolchildren in Leeds are the first to get their hands on production models of the bare-bones computer. ...

... Delivery of the first batch of production machines has been delayed twice - once because the wrong component was soldered on to circuit boards and a second time thanks to confusion about electromagnetic testing.
Programming masterclass

With both these hurdles overcome, delivery of the first machines to roll off the production line is set to commence.

To mark the occasion, project co-ordinator Eben Upton is presenting a batch of the first Raspberry Pi computers to schoolchildren on Friday. ...

... The Pi is built around the Arm chip that is used in the vast majority of mobile phones. It runs one version of the Linux operating system and uses SD cards as its storage medium. ...



IT is very much what WE make it!
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I dove into openSUSE from Kubuntu this last week. I've noticed a change in BOINC processing times using EON2@home. the average times for Kubuntu were around 217-218 seconds per WU. on openSUSE it comes down to 208-209 seconds/WU
thats about a 5% change.

The big reason for the change was similar to Mandriva. The package downloader broke after an update and no fix was in sight. I retried Mandriva but it appears to be a year out of date and has very little optional software available.

Kubuntu also had a problem with BOINC. I had to check in on the OS every day. Seems BOINC would lose its place and would refuse to attach properly. The only solution appeared to be a restart which is ridiculous on its face.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I once tried suse. I found it to have way less support, and package availability than debian based Linux (like all *ubuntus)

Kubuntu is a very heavyweight OS, it is loaded with more flashy cpu intensive stuff and useless packages (and hence, bugs) than ANY other linux distro available. That's what makes it "Kubuntu" (It is the show-off distro with the bleeding-est edge stuff)...

I'm interested to see a comparison between Xubuntu (a lightwieght ubuntu with gui) and suse... (The lack of "bloatware" in suse could be a reason for the improvement)

I'm curious. If you get adventurous at some point, try out xubuntu on the same system and post some comparisons. :-)

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#resist

I'll d/l now for future adventures.

Just checked in and Xubuntu is due for an upgrade. I'll get the old one and new one when it arrives
693 MB nice and small

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

All *buntus are getting an upgrade. 12.04 stable + long term support comes out on April 26th. I'll be doing my server over from scratch with 12.04.1 server when it comes out in ?June?

But simply because it's a stable+lts release I would choose 12.04 for quite some time, (I avoid those "in between" versions... stablity...)

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#resist