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Message 983786 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 6:09:27 UTC - in response to Message 983784.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...
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Message 983791 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 6:23:00 UTC - in response to Message 983786.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.
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Message 983795 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 6:29:35 UTC - in response to Message 983791.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.

So Democracy is taking from the rich to give to the poor? Learn something new everyday....Guess I shouldn't work so hard.
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Message 983805 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 6:40:34 UTC - in response to Message 983795.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.

So Democracy is taking from the rich to give to the poor? Learn something new everyday....Guess I shouldn't work so hard.

They had an election, Taxes are a necessary evil, Otherwise services We expect to have don't get paid for, Like roads and such, People in Government aren't lazy as You can't get something for nothing, They work doing their jobs and have to pay bills and taxes too, If You expect good services, It has to be paid for.

Oregon Live wrote:
Campaign ads by supporters highlighted banks and credit card companies and showed images of well-dressed people stepping off private jets. They also hammered on the $10 minimum tax that most corporations have paid since its inception in 1931.

Those messages helped counter warnings by opponents that the taxes would lead to job losses, worsening the state's 11 percent unemployment rate, and prompt wealthy residents to move elsewhere.

Supporters spent at least $6.9 million, most of it coming from teacher and public employee unions. Opponents, led by a coalition of business organizations, spent at least $4.6 million, donated by wealthy entrepreneurs such as Nike's Phil Knight and Columbia Sportswear's Tim Boyle. Opponents who gathered at the Grand Hotel in Salem were optimistic early, but as the results came in, the mood quickly darkened.

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Message 983811 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 6:53:56 UTC - in response to Message 983786.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...



As I recall, Robin Hood was regarded as a hero by many, whilst the Sheriff of Nottingham was most definitely a villain.



Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 983928 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 14:04:18 UTC - in response to Message 983795.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.

So Democracy is taking from the rich to give to the poor? Learn something new everyday....Guess I shouldn't work so hard.

Yes, perhaps I should quit my job and apply for welfare. It would make life so much easier.

Anyone else for a constitutional amendment to prevent entitlements?

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Message 983992 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 16:15:40 UTC

It will be interesting to see if there is a gradual moving of people with money out of Oregon. Seems they could wipe out their new tax base and be in even bigger problems. I know I would move before I would watch more money I work hard for go to Welfare like is in all the apartments surrounding my place. I always loved doing the service calls for Pierce County Housing Authority. Would go to some dumpy looking apartment building and then get inside the unit. It always amazed me that these women could get this kind of help when it is more than obvious from the inside that their boyfriends make good money(legal or not). I have seen welfare apartments that made me jealous, stereos, gameboys, Wii's, it goes on and on the people SCAMMING the system. My neighbor got pregnant when her daughter hit 17 because she didn't want to lose the money when her daughter turned 18, she said it was an accident but I will never believe her. She is in school now so that will cost but hopefully she will eventually work. I have worked one way or another since I was about 10, I have no time for people that want to be entitled. I have been penniless and on the streets 3 times, once in a foriegn country, I did not beg, steal or anything else non moral, I did wash dishes, clean windows, hacked brush for a surveyor but I worked my way back. I spent a summer hanging with a bunch of Bums and learned about how certain cities will pay them to move on and they basically have a year long route they make from Washington to California stealing and getting free money and are quite happy to live that way. One of their favorites is to hold a sign at an onramp. The funnest time was living under a bridge in Sacramento California believe it or not. I have been there and done that!

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Message 984009 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 17:00:37 UTC - in response to Message 983928.  

I saw something on the news that said the mask protesters were not protesting anything. They were out there to cause trouble and that's the reason for the mask.

They are anarchists. They want no government.
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler.’

That sounds almost like California Republicans in the legislature, All they want are cuts and yet most Californians simply do not support Cuts(pdf).

Public schools: 79% oppose cuts, 20% favor cuts
Public assistance for elderly and disabled: 77-21
Health care for low-income and poor: 71-26
Higher education: 70-28
Law enforcement: 67-31
Mental health: 65-31
Child care: 59-38
Welfare: 57-40


Oregon voted on raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 and large corporations to generate $733 million to close the state's budget deficit. Their propositions 66 & 67 passed. If they can do It, Why can't We in California do It? And there are $40 Billion in Tax loopholes, Some of which could be closed, Especially If they bring in less in income taxes from employment than they cost the state in corporate tax revenue that's lost.

Anything that ends in raising taxes will only make things worst. History shows us that you must cut cost and taxes if you want the economy to recover. Government employees will hurt and people who rely on government services will hurt. Why are we paying for illegals medical care and schooling when we are unable to pay for our own? It's a matter of making hard decisions, something the democrats have not been able to do for years and show no signs of starting.

Dena the taxes were not on people of no consequence, Look at the incomes, Do You make that much? I don't think so, So why defend those Who've had tax cuts? They aren't the middle class, these people won't flinch as It's a cost of doing business and a responsibility. If You think Government is bad, Then Yer a Wingnut and I'll have nothing further to do with You.

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.

So Democracy is taking from the rich to give to the poor? Learn something new everyday....Guess I shouldn't work so hard.

Yes, perhaps I should quit my job and apply for welfare. It would make life so much easier.

Anyone else for a constitutional amendment to prevent entitlements?

Then that would be unfair to those Who have no way to support themselves and whose relatives can't help, So You'd want to create more suffering? Why not go farther and say send them to camps like the Nazis did in WWII and gas them???

Are You that cruel and shallow? If So Yer not Christian, Yer selfish, As then You'd be ending all government supports and pay, Armys and Navies would have to be all volunteer, As what is welfare? It's money that supports this program or that program, We are all interconnected in a web and I'm not talking about online, I'm talking moneywise, Everyone pays bills, food, taxes(duh, I pay taxes), pretty soon less money comes in and people start cutting back & businesses do the same by laying people off and other businesses close due to not enough traffic and what do You know? You'd be in even worse shape then as You are now and since the majority of people don't want more cuts as that will mean unemployment for other people and could eventually get back to them, So Its a not a productive or constructive idea, Just destructive, If a whole city stopped paying for this or that for one or two months, How long could You hold on? No man or woman exists as a totally independent person anymore and It's been about 10,000 years since that last occurred. So I'd drop that idea, Unless You despise Your fellow human being that much and I doubt You do, But If You do then You better hate Me to death, As I'm not able to work and so I get SSI(Supplemental Security Income) and It's a long story, So I won't bore You with the details and hopefully I got everything the spellchecker didn't get.
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Message 984096 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 21:17:39 UTC - in response to Message 984009.  

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.

So Democracy is taking from the rich to give to the poor? Learn something new everyday....Guess I shouldn't work so hard.

Yes, perhaps I should quit my job and apply for welfare. It would make life so much easier.

Anyone else for a constitutional amendment to prevent entitlements?

Then that would be unfair to those Who have no way to support themselves and whose relatives can't help, So You'd want to create more suffering? Why not go farther and say send them to camps like the Nazis did in WWII and gas them???

I should invoke Godwin's law, but I won't. Perhaps Darwin's law, which applies to humans. :)

Are You that cruel and shallow? If So Yer not Christian, Yer selfish, As then You'd be ending all government supports and pay, Armys and Navies would have to be all volunteer, As what is welfare? It's money that supports this program or that program, We are all interconnected in a web and I'm not talking about online, I'm talking moneywise, Everyone pays bills, food, taxes(duh, I pay taxes), pretty soon less money comes in and people start cutting back & businesses do the same by laying people off and other businesses close due to not enough traffic and what do You know? You'd be in even worse shape then as You are now and since the majority of people don't want more cuts as that will mean unemployment for other people and could eventually get back to them, So Its a not a productive or constructive idea, Just destructive, If a whole city stopped paying for this or that for one or two months, How long could You hold on? No man or woman exists as a totally independent person anymore and It's been about 10,000 years since that last occurred. So I'd drop that idea, Unless You despise Your fellow human being that much and I doubt You do, But If You do then You better hate Me to death, As I'm not able to work and so I get SSI(Supplemental Security Income) and It's a long story, So I won't bore You with the details and hopefully I got everything the spellchecker didn't get.

Victor, I did not say no one should be assisted. I said that the Federal Government should not be in the individual entitlement business. That for what ever reason you can not see that there is a difference ...

The moment the Federal Government got into the individual entitlement business it broke the institutions that had long been doing that role. Very few Christian Churches now provide assistance to their own flock. There were huge fraternities that provided for their own. I'm sure you remember Fred Flintstone going to lodge and the Grand Poobah. These don't exist today. Allowing the Federal Government in to the individual entitlement business has done more harm than it ever could do good. On top of that it has created the mentality that people are owed a living. NO! They are owed a chance to make a living. That is why we have governments, to makes things level and stable. Not to set the bar at zero.

I suspect you reacted so strongly because you have a couple of your beliefs in conflict and my statement to quit work and become an entitled person brought it to the surface. I'm sorry if that brought you angst. It was not my intention.

As to SSI, it is obvious that at one time you did work, so you paid into the insurance pool. Now you are getting the payout, which I hope I never need.

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Message 984113 - Posted: 26 Mar 2010, 22:06:57 UTC - in response to Message 984096.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2010, 22:08:46 UTC

Looks like Robin Hood to me...

It's called Democracy and It was/is majority rule. Not minority rule.

So Democracy is taking from the rich to give to the poor? Learn something new everyday....Guess I shouldn't work so hard.

Yes, perhaps I should quit my job and apply for welfare. It would make life so much easier.

Anyone else for a constitutional amendment to prevent entitlements?

Then that would be unfair to those Who have no way to support themselves and whose relatives can't help, So You'd want to create more suffering? Why not go farther and say send them to camps like the Nazis did in WWII and gas them???

I should invoke Godwin's law, but I won't. Perhaps Darwin's law, which applies to humans. :)

Are You that cruel and shallow? If So Yer not Christian, Yer selfish, As then You'd be ending all government supports and pay, Armys and Navies would have to be all volunteer, As what is welfare? It's money that supports this program or that program, We are all interconnected in a web and I'm not talking about online, I'm talking moneywise, Everyone pays bills, food, taxes(duh, I pay taxes), pretty soon less money comes in and people start cutting back & businesses do the same by laying people off and other businesses close due to not enough traffic and what do You know? You'd be in even worse shape then as You are now and since the majority of people don't want more cuts as that will mean unemployment for other people and could eventually get back to them, So Its a not a productive or constructive idea, Just destructive, If a whole city stopped paying for this or that for one or two months, How long could You hold on? No man or woman exists as a totally independent person anymore and It's been about 10,000 years since that last occurred. So I'd drop that idea, Unless You despise Your fellow human being that much and I doubt You do, But If You do then You better hate Me to death, As I'm not able to work and so I get SSI(Supplemental Security Income) and It's a long story, So I won't bore You with the details and hopefully I got everything the spellchecker didn't get.

Victor, I did not say no one should be assisted. I said that the Federal Government should not be in the individual entitlement business. That for what ever reason you can not see that there is a difference ...

The moment the Federal Government got into the individual entitlement business it broke the institutions that had long been doing that role. Very few Christian Churches now provide assistance to their own flock. There were huge fraternities that provided for their own. I'm sure you remember Fred Flintstone going to lodge and the Grand Poobah. These don't exist today. Allowing the Federal Government in to the individual entitlement business has done more harm than it ever could do good. On top of that it has created the mentality that people are owed a living. NO! They are owed a chance to make a living. That is why we have governments, to makes things level and stable. Not to set the bar at zero.

I suspect you reacted so strongly because you have a couple of your beliefs in conflict and my statement to quit work and become an entitled person brought it to the surface. I'm sorry if that brought you angst. It was not my intention.

As to SSI, it is obvious that at one time you did work, so you paid into the insurance pool. Now you are getting the payout, which I hope I never need.

Ok, My anxiety got the better of Me, I apologize. Well SSI(Supplemental Security Income) doesn't have a pool as It comes from the main Federal Budget, Yer thinking of SSDI(Social Security Disability Insurance) which comes from the Trust Fund shared with the Retirement part of Social Security, Which I thanks to My Dads mistrust of Doctors(I suspect that came from His WWII involvement, He'd been in the 368th Medical from '42-'46 and I think He saw a lot more than He bargained for, Mom said He came home a changed Man, He never even used His GI Bill benefits) He only took Me to a GP If I was sick, Pat My older sister got glasses long before I was born and He never had My eyes examined or much else(I was their perfect child I was told, So why bother), But that was My Dad, I think My older Brother made more than Dad did(or at least had enough at the time), But then My Brother bought Me My 1st bicycle, I miss them both too. :D
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Message boards : Politics : Masked Protesters


 
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