Tell me about it, such is the case with so many domestic issues.

Oh! Wanted to add one more thing;

8. Do not grant citizenship to people born in the US to illegal parents, the exception being if at least one parent is here legally.

Tell me about it, such is the case with so many domestic issues.

Oh! Wanted to add one more thing;

8. Do not grant citizenship to people born in the US to illegal parents, the exception being if at least one parent is here legally.

Amen to that.......

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

1. Determine the origin of the majority of immigrants and put pressure on those countries to fix conditions there through trade restrictions or support (whichever would seem to work better depending upon the country in question).

Aren't the vast majority of illegal aliens already from countries where the US government and the corporatists have been involving themselves?
The conditions created by the corporatists are what is driving so many people out of those countries and the hard-core right wing governments are already supported by US aid, both financial and military.

2. Do not allow people here illegally to prosper. Crack down on illegal hiring practices, do not offer public support such as medicaid, food stamps, TANF, or anything else to people here illegally.

I'm curious as to the use of the word "prosper" in this context.
The services you cite are not the type of resources someone who is prospering would tend to access.
These are social safety net programs to aid those at the lowest end of the economic scale.

8. Do not grant citizenship to people born in the US to illegal parents, the exception being if at least one parent is here legally.

I see two shortcomings in this solution right off the bat.
1) A child born in the US of illegal aliens can spend 25 years in the country.
Are you proposing deporting this youth to a country where he/she has no connection,possibly no understanding of the language, no certificate of birth or proof of citizenship?
You would just drop them off in the middle of a foreign land and culture.

2) The simple way around this problem for illegal alien parents would be to abandon the newborn child on a door step somewhere and leave it's fate to the social safety net services of the government.
Having no method or means to prove the child is born of illegal aliens, the government would be obligated to see to the care, adoption and well being of the child.

Seems a large drain on the resources you want to protect as part of your position against illegal aliens.

1. Determine the origin of the majority of immigrants and put pressure on those countries to fix conditions there through trade restrictions or support (whichever would seem to work better depending upon the country in question).

Aren't the vast majority of illegal aliens already from countries where the US government and the corporatists have been involving themselves?
The conditions created by the corporatists are what is driving so many people out of those countries and the hard-core right wing governments are already supported by US aid, both financial and military.

Actually, the majority of illegals in this country are from Mexico, which is also the US biggest trading partner, and that trade is regulated through government. Furthermore, the biggest beneficiary to the trade is Mexican government (case in point; Pemex, the monopolized, government oil enterprise that exports oil and imports gasoline). This establishes that the most vulnerable is the Mexican government; the entity upon which pressure should be applied.

I'm curious as to the use of the word "prosper" in this context.
The services you cite are not the type of resources someone who is prospering would tend to access.

No, they are the services which allow the illegals to prosper. Giving government aid to people here illegally that do not contribute to the programs financially enable illegal immigration to continue.

Are you proposing deporting this youth to a country where he/she has no connection,possibly no understanding of the language, no certificate of birth or proof of citizenship?
You would just drop them off in the middle of a foreign land and culture.

I'm not proposing anything of the sort. The issue here is that illegals eight months pregnant cross the border and give birth in the desert so that their child can be a US citizen, which they will then exploit to remain in country. What is happening now is that parents are deported while the child stays here due to their legal status and become wards of the state. This is an exploited loophole that should be closed. You can't tell me that someone, simply because they are born in the US, has no connection to their country of origin, language, or culture. If this was the case, you'd never find an ethnic restaurant, or meet anyone in the US that spoke any language other than English.

The simple way around this problem for illegal alien parents would be to abandon the newborn child on a door step somewhere and leave it's fate to the social safety net services of the government.

That happens under the current system. The system I propose keeps the child with the parents because there are no legal loopholes preventing the child from being deported along with the parents. Deportation of illegals, whilst protecting their child's (a US citizen) rights to remain are what separates families. With my proposal, the child stays with the parents, and the parents aren't able to exploit their child's citizenship status allowing them to remain in country.

Seems a large drain on the resources you want to protect as part of your position against illegal aliens.

I really don't see how. The businesses that cater to the illegals pay the fines which support the program.

I'd encourage you to take a look at your own country; I've been trying for years to get into Canada legally and the process is so daunting that it overwhelms us. We're considering illegal immigration to Canada. What can you tell me about that? Seriously; do you want to sponsor my family? We'd be very grateful.

Most "guest workers" in this country pay into the system, using fake or borrowed social security numbers, then file their actual taxes using an ITIN.
So yes they contribute to SS and Medicare, yet will most likely never get the benefits. Why do they file? To help them change their status from illegal to legal.
California would be in deep doodoo without them. They do the jobs, most Americans don't want to do, even now in this job climate.
What urks me the most, that a lot of them don't make an effort to learn english.
That includes legal immigrants/Citizens too and not just from Mexico/South America.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

I don't know about guest workers. I'm talking about people here illegally that take jobs and cash under the table and pay zilch in taxes. Sub-contract labor is booming with illegals that don't have a social security number, fake or otherwise, and they don't pay in anything.

I think you missed this "

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

there also seems to be a current policy of looking the other way for manual labor jobs. Carpentry, construction, road work, and kitchen staffs tend to have a large portion of low wage jobs in Texas. OF note, Road construction workers make about $9.00 in texas. Illinois and other midwestern states the same job goes for $20+ and they aren't employing illegals, and the jobs are done for the same price tag. The payoff lands in the lap of the construction company owner. They earn big bucks while their non union illegal workforce makes diddly. wanna see Americans working in construction pay a decent wage.
I had a friend that was a carpenter back in 1979 he was making $16.00 an hour. thats over $33k a year back in 1979. I heard on NPR that current wages for carpenters is $24k a year. All you need to do to figure out how a job can produce 1/3 less in wages instead of increasing wages is to look at the work force. You don't have to pay top dollar when you hire people that are willing to work for anything you throw their way. THis is the problem that illegals bring with them. they suppress wages and keep Americans that might have wanted that job had it paid a decent wage from gaining employment in those job fields. Remove the cause of wage suppression and you have viable American work force that can live on the wages they earn. THe company owner may not be able to by that new porsche he wanted but at least we have people working that we know are keeping their money here and not sending to a village far away so they can bring the rest of their family here.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

It is not just illegals who violate "lawn space". My property is right on a public two lane highway. There is no ditch to prevent cars from driving through my lawn. I had so many bad drivers tear through my yard that I finally just gave up mowing close to the road. Now I just let the highway department mow it.

I guess in general I would say that illegals should not be here, but I think than many of them are probably better people that many of my fellow Americans. Think about it, they have come to a strange country to try to make their life better. Most of us Americans do everything in our power to screw our fellow countrymen. I am not sure who is better. At this point I have a very dim view of other people in general.

It is not just illegals who violate "lawn space". My property is right on a public two lane highway. There is no ditch to prevent cars from driving through my lawn. I had so many bad drivers tear through my yard that I finally just gave up mowing close to the road. Now I just let the highway department mow it.

I guess in general I would say that illegals should not be here, but I think than many of them are probably better people that many of my fellow Americans. Think about it, they have come to a strange country to try to make their life better. Most of us Americans do everything in our power to screw our fellow countrymen. I am not sure who is better. At this point I have a very dim view of other people in general.

I have no doubt they want a better life. the problem is that they are living a life created in poorer surroundings. What I've seen happen is that when folks move here they attempt to replicate what they used to have back home. Now picture a very poor neighborhood in any 3rd world country. Move those folks here and see what they expect and create for themselves. I guarantee it will look very much like a 3rd world village. well they do get plumbing involuntarily. other than that its still the 3rd world.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

The fact that they want a better life does not excuse them for violating out borders.....
Or our government for allowing them to do so.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

And BTW.........
Since when do I have to apologize for defending my own freakin' lawn???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

All other BS aside..........I have lived here since '54.......and I happen to OWN the land that I live on.

And I don't want any immigrants without coupons taking a walk on it and picking my dandelions..........

Especially when I would have to pay them.........and pay them again when their women get pregnant with their children.........and again and again and again........

My first agenda would be to enforce the border...........
Very heavily armed.

They would get the picture very quickly if it was done in force.

'Do not tread on me'.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Perhaps a heavily armed paramilitary presence on every street corner would help make you more comfortable too.

Maybe, to raise needed funds, the government could allow people to rent an hour of time in a tower at the border armed with a sniper rifle and a bottle of Jack Daniels.

YEEHAAA BUBBA

If someone is on your property and they are not welcome there, then I don't see how it matters if they're an immigrant or not.

I certainly don't expect you to have to defend the notions of protecting your property from trespassers.

If the US REALLY wants to get rid of illegals, it's really quite simple.

They come because their friends and relatives who are already here tell them that if they can just get across the border, they can find work.

If we REALLY want to them to stop coming, make paying an illegal alien a felony punishable by 10 years in prison with no parole.

When the illegals see homeowners, contractors, business owners and factory managers being led away in handcuffs, the word will get out on every cheap cell phone to Central America that the party is over.

The fact is, the US doesn't REALLY want to get rid of illegals. They are critical to the bottom line of our economy. Just like the banks, greed rules the day. It's much easier to just make them scapegoats.

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Join the PACK!

Perhaps a heavily armed paramilitary presence on every street corner would help make you more comfortable too.

Maybe, to raise needed funds, the government could allow people to rent an hour of time in a tower at the border armed with a sniper rifle and a bottle of Jack Daniels.

YEEHAAA BUBBA

Works for me........(plink plink........)more targets make for better shooters,,,,,,,,LOL.
And I am done apologizing for my views.

Lock ;em out.......enforce the borders.........THEN worry about the politics of the matter.
'Bout time we start shooting anything that moves.
Plugs are cheaper than politics........even Hitler knew that.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I hold no religious belief, but you have expressed in other threads that you do.
Is this call for mass killings on the border explained somehow in your scriptures?
Have you ever considered what your Christ might have to say about your belief?

I find it very funny that you can call for shooting everything that moves in this thread while begging for prayers in another.
What's it going to be man, murder or mercy?

I won't even comment on your reference to Hitler.

msattler finds himself taking another time out from the boards and I feel somewhat guilty.
He and I disagree on most topics that are related to social issues, but he has a right to his personal opinions. Hell, I sent him a PM after his last bannishment welcoming him back.

I can only assume that whatever was said to bring on another time-out was of a nature too nasty for the boards.
He needs to learn to stay on topic and not allow himself to fall into the abusive side of arguing.

Too bad. I think we need to examine all aspects of a debate before we can come to an informed opinion and people with extreme views, from both right and left, are part of that examination of facts.