Does this seem right for crunch speed? (PS3, Linux)

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Message 927378 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 5:54:38 UTC
Last modified: 20 Aug 2009, 6:03:59 UTC

I was bored tonight so I decided to install Linux, Boinc, and SETI on a PS3 for the hell of it...

I don't even have X running. Runlevel is set for text mode. If I want to use X, I'll startx, but mainly I'm just going to be SSH'ing into the PS3 from a laptop.

I installed the Yellowdog Linux 6.1 release, as I didn't feel motivated enough to mess with Fedora (and certainly not Gentoo) over a silly PS3.

[seti@ps3 ~]$ uname -a
Linux ps3 2.6.28-0.ydl61.1 #1 SMP Thu Jan 15 11:29:27 MST 2009 ppc64 ppc64 ppc64 GNU/Linux

Installed:
Boinc Client Version 6.2.19
SETI_Enhanced Application Version 5.15


(as per)
http://www.dotsch.de/boinc/Home.html
(which is most current for PS3 out there)

Stats given on computer account page here:

CPU type: PS3 Cell Broadband Engine [Model 0 ]
Number of processors: 2
Operating System: Linux 2.6.28-0.ydl61.1

(fine so far)

(not so fine)
Measured floating point speed: 296.51 million ops/sec <-- WTF?
Measured integer speed: 1132.02 million ops/sec <-- WTF?

Some more (WTF?) info from BoincView:

FPU Speed: 296.5 MFlops
Total FPU Speed: 593 MFlops
Integer Speed: 1.132 GIOps
Total Integer Speed: 2.264 GIOps
Credits Per Hour: 5.95


(CPU Efficiency is greater than 98 percent on both cores.)

Is this par for what can be expected on a PS3 or is this a joke? I didn't expect a whole lot, but this is like Pentium-II.

Anyone else crunching on a PS3? What are your numbers?

Thanks...
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Message 927406 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 11:26:29 UTC - in response to Message 927378.  

I was bored tonight so I decided to install Linux, Boinc, and SETI on a PS3 for the hell of it...

I don't even have X running. Runlevel is set for text mode. If I want to use X, I'll startx, but mainly I'm just going to be SSH'ing into the PS3 from a laptop.

I installed the Yellowdog Linux 6.1 release, as I didn't feel motivated enough to mess with Fedora (and certainly not Gentoo) over a silly PS3.

[seti@ps3 ~]$ uname -a
Linux ps3 2.6.28-0.ydl61.1 #1 SMP Thu Jan 15 11:29:27 MST 2009 ppc64 ppc64 ppc64 GNU/Linux

Installed:
Boinc Client Version 6.2.19
SETI_Enhanced Application Version 5.15


(as per)
http://www.dotsch.de/boinc/Home.html
(which is most current for PS3 out there)

Stats given on computer account page here:

CPU type: PS3 Cell Broadband Engine [Model 0 ]
Number of processors: 2
Operating System: Linux 2.6.28-0.ydl61.1

(fine so far)

(not so fine)
Measured floating point speed: 296.51 million ops/sec <-- WTF?
Measured integer speed: 1132.02 million ops/sec <-- WTF?

Some more (WTF?) info from BoincView:

FPU Speed: 296.5 MFlops
Total FPU Speed: 593 MFlops
Integer Speed: 1.132 GIOps
Total Integer Speed: 2.264 GIOps
Credits Per Hour: 5.95


(CPU Efficiency is greater than 98 percent on both cores.)

Is this par for what can be expected on a PS3 or is this a joke? I didn't expect a whole lot, but this is like Pentium-II.

Anyone else crunching on a PS3? What are your numbers?

Thanks...


I would have expected a lot more myself. I've got a dual 1.8Ghz PPC Mac at work, which is half the speed of the PS3, and its numbers come up higher then that. I though there was access to 6 of the 8 SPEs in the PS3 as well.

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Message 927412 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 11:43:53 UTC - in response to Message 927406.  
Last modified: 20 Aug 2009, 11:47:08 UTC


I would have expected a lot more myself. I've got a dual 1.8Ghz PPC Mac at work, which is half the speed of the PS3, and its numbers come up higher then that. I though there was access to 6 of the 8 SPEs in the PS3 as well.


It looks like I'm actually doing "good" with 5.95 credits per hour.

The average for all other PS3's crunching SETI is 3.89 credits per hour!

http://allprojectstats.com/cpuinfo.php?id=38270

Yeah, that is with both cores and six SPE's working.

The whole SPE theory looked good on paper for the PS3, but in practice it is a joke.

Hell, are there even any GAMES that make use of the SPE theory on the PS3?

The PS3 is just a bloated BluRay player.

(That was the main/only reason I got a PS3. BluRay players were still expensive at the time.)
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Message 927422 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 12:29:46 UTC - in response to Message 927412.  

Yeah, that is with both cores and six SPE's working.

The whole SPE theory looked good on paper for the PS3, but in practice it is a joke.

Is there not an Alex Khan optimised app that makes use of the SPEs (Altivec)?

Or is that all locked out on the PS3?

Happy crunchin',
Martin

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Message 927447 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 13:25:44 UTC

I'm pretty sure that the crunching force of the PS3 comes from the graphics card.
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Message 927448 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 13:27:43 UTC - in response to Message 927447.  

I'm pretty sure that the crunching force of the PS3 comes from the graphics card.

Yes, but not all applications do use it.
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Message 927452 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 13:43:11 UTC - in response to Message 927448.  

Isn't SETI a CUDA project?
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Message 927468 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 14:17:17 UTC

You get the best performance using the GpuGrid project on the PS3, it was specifically written for PS3s, though it's adapted since. When I ran Seti on mine (a while back) I think I remember that it took almost a week per WU.
On a side note, I read that with the release of the new "slim" PS3, they're updating the firmware to close the system, ie. the option to use an alternate OS will be going away...
Sony removed the "install other OS" feature from the options menu, essentially making the PS3 a closed system.

-Dave
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Message 927480 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 15:09:51 UTC
Last modified: 20 Aug 2009, 15:27:36 UTC

Well, I'm using the optimized PS3 application.

Optimized SETI@Home Enhanced application
Optimizers: Ben Herndon, Josef Segur, Alex Kan, Simon Zadra
Linux port: Crunch3r, Hans Dorn, Simon Zadra
Version: PowerPC Linux 32-bit based on S@H V5.15 'Noo? No - Ni!'
Revision: R-2.3A for PS3 Cell by Gaurav Khanna


I just finished my first WU on the PS3.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=1339231344

(The restarts were from my own doing. I was doing various system configs.)

My wingman was a CUDA cruncher. Comparison between the PS3 and a GeForce 9800M GTS.

PS3:
--------
Runtime: 23,621.86
Claimed Credit: 32.11

GeForce 9800M:
--------
Runtime: 154.97
Claimed Credit: 26.76


http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=494098705

Wow, a week for a WU. That is just a waste of electricity.

Looking at the list of names of optimizers and porters. That is a pretty impressive list of names. If anyone could get some real power out of the PS3, it would be this group. I wonder if they have posted any specifics of what the bottleneck is. My guess is that Sony hasn't released enough intimate information about the PS3's Cell/SPE's. I bet Sony is holding that info for themselves so that they can be the first to release a game that makes full use of the architecture. That game (Gran Turismo 5?) is due out any year now.

The new slim PS3's aren't really losing anything by not being able to run an OS. I mean, is there really any point to running an OS on a PS3? I just did it mainly to see it in action and thought that if it was somewhat respectable with crunching SETI, I'd let it run in between watching BluRay movies. Other than that, having an OS run on the PS3 is like a stupid pet trick. Amusing for a minute or two, but serves no purpose.
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Message 927490 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 15:41:11 UTC - in response to Message 927452.  

Isn't SETI a CUDA project?

Yes, but I'm quite sure that the PS3 has no CUDA-capable (co)processors.
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Message 927495 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 15:56:36 UTC - in response to Message 927480.  



Wow, a week for a WU. That is just a waste of electricity.


I agree, that's why I only did (I think?) 2 WUs...
Oh, and if I'm remembering correctly, they were AP and the app was not optimized... (it's been a while, so I could be mis-remembering.)


The new slim PS3's aren't really losing anything by not being able to run an OS. I mean, is there really any point to running an OS on a PS3? I just did it mainly to see it in action and thought that if it was somewhat respectable with crunching SETI, I'd let it run in between watching BluRay movies. Other than that, having an OS run on the PS3 is like a stupid pet trick. Amusing for a minute or two, but serves no purpose.
.


I liked being able to use the PS3 to do a little web surfing in YDL while crunching, but basically I agree. Also, the way I read the article, all PS3s will loose the OS option if they update to the current firmware, not just the slim ones, but that could be incorrect.

-Dave
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Message 927511 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 17:32:50 UTC - in response to Message 927495.  



Wow, a week for a WU. That is just a waste of electricity.


I agree, that's why I only did (I think?) 2 WUs...
Oh, and if I'm remembering correctly, they were AP and the app was not optimized... (it's been a while, so I could be mis-remembering.)


The new slim PS3's aren't really losing anything by not being able to run an OS. I mean, is there really any point to running an OS on a PS3? I just did it mainly to see it in action and thought that if it was somewhat respectable with crunching SETI, I'd let it run in between watching BluRay movies. Other than that, having an OS run on the PS3 is like a stupid pet trick. Amusing for a minute or two, but serves no purpose.
.


I liked being able to use the PS3 to do a little web surfing in YDL while crunching, but basically I agree. Also, the way I read the article, all PS3s will loose the OS option if they update to the current firmware, not just the slim ones, but that could be incorrect.

-Dave

I may not own a PS3, But I think losing the ability to run Linux on the PS3(among any others of course) is not cool. And I'd hope Yer incorrect also.
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Message 927519 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 18:34:10 UTC - in response to Message 927511.  



Wow, a week for a WU. That is just a waste of electricity.


I agree, that's why I only did (I think?) 2 WUs...
Oh, and if I'm remembering correctly, they were AP and the app was not optimized... (it's been a while, so I could be mis-remembering.)


The new slim PS3's aren't really losing anything by not being able to run an OS. I mean, is there really any point to running an OS on a PS3? I just did it mainly to see it in action and thought that if it was somewhat respectable with crunching SETI, I'd let it run in between watching BluRay movies. Other than that, having an OS run on the PS3 is like a stupid pet trick. Amusing for a minute or two, but serves no purpose.
.


I liked being able to use the PS3 to do a little web surfing in YDL while crunching, but basically I agree. Also, the way I read the article, all PS3s will loose the OS option if they update to the current firmware, not just the slim ones, but that could be incorrect.

-Dave

I may not own a PS3, But I think losing the ability to run Linux on the PS3(among any others of course) is not cool. And I'd hope Yer incorrect also.


I give it less then a week before someone cracks it anyway. I don't think installing other OSs was supported at first for the PS3.
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Message 927550 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 21:22:05 UTC - in response to Message 927519.  



Wow, a week for a WU. That is just a waste of electricity.


I agree, that's why I only did (I think?) 2 WUs...
Oh, and if I'm remembering correctly, they were AP and the app was not optimized... (it's been a while, so I could be mis-remembering.)


The new slim PS3's aren't really losing anything by not being able to run an OS. I mean, is there really any point to running an OS on a PS3? I just did it mainly to see it in action and thought that if it was somewhat respectable with crunching SETI, I'd let it run in between watching BluRay movies. Other than that, having an OS run on the PS3 is like a stupid pet trick. Amusing for a minute or two, but serves no purpose.
.


I liked being able to use the PS3 to do a little web surfing in YDL while crunching, but basically I agree. Also, the way I read the article, all PS3s will loose the OS option if they update to the current firmware, not just the slim ones, but that could be incorrect.

-Dave

I may not own a PS3, But I think losing the ability to run Linux on the PS3(among any others of course) is not cool. And I'd hope Yer incorrect also.


I give it less then a week before someone cracks it anyway. I don't think installing other OSs was supported at first for the PS3.

Hi Hal9K, I think I spotted You elsewhere(On a Car forum, Escorts maybe).
Yeah, Hackers will do things like that, The more they(Sony) try to clog the pipes, The more someone will get out the snake and clear them out so that smooth running can continue. :D
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Message 927578 - Posted: 20 Aug 2009, 23:43:27 UTC - in response to Message 927550.  
Last modified: 20 Aug 2009, 23:43:47 UTC

I give it less then a week before someone cracks it anyway. I don't think installing other OSs was supported at first for the PS3.

Hi Hal9K, I think I spotted You elsewhere(On a Car forum, Escorts maybe).


A ford escort? ermm.... No! Maybe on a VW forum, but it wouldn't be Hal on an auto forum.


Yeah, Hackers will do things like that, The more they(Sony) try to clog the pipes, The more someone will get out the snake and clear them out so that smooth running can continue. :D


Lets hope so. I've been wanting to get a PS3 and if I can run an OS on it too that would be fun. I never got around to installing linux on my PS2. I have the older model w/o a NIC. So not a lot of use in doing so anyway.
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Message 927590 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009, 0:13:59 UTC

Think I'm going to give AP a try. Got the newest app. Going to let the MB WU's run dry first...
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Message 927598 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009, 1:02:49 UTC

The problem is, it is a completely different architecture. An application could be designed for the CELL BE (as was done on GPU grid) but porting an existing x86 application makes only partial use of SPE at best with skilled programmer.
If I recall correctly, on GPU grid my 260 is about ~3x as fast as PS3. Ps3 does ~4k rac. yoyo@home also has a good ps3 app. Theirs is a boinc wrapper of the dnet ps3 client. You should run some ps3 grid to see hot it works. The WUs there will take about 24 hours to crunch.
I am really sad to hear Sony might remove my other OS option. As there are many people who use ps3 as CELL BE platform, not just crunchers would be affected.
To learn more about the CELL BE architecture go here:
Cell BE
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Message 927599 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009, 1:08:07 UTC - in response to Message 927578.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2009, 1:20:51 UTC

Lets hope so. I've been wanting to get a PS3 and if I can run an OS on it too that would be fun. I never got around to installing linux on my PS2. I have the older model w/o a NIC. So not a lot of use in doing so anyway.


It runs decently on the PS3, I suppose. I just don't see myself having any "real" use for it, but I guess if you want a small "computer" hooked up to a TV (and have a PS3, anyway), it can be of use.

A couple "gotchas", that may or may not apply to anyone reading this, I had with YDL 6.1 ....

If you plan on using X, you not only need an HDTV, but it also needs to be LCD/Plasma/etc. I have an older CRT (480i/p, 1080i) HDTV that I installed it with. The text wasn't readable at 1080i. I had to install it at 480i. An SDTV will also work, but you will get quite a bit of flickering and artifacting around text at 480i. At the boot prompt, just press TAB to change between video modes as they are all entries in the boot loader. If you just press enter, it will automagically try to find the best resolution, but you know what that usually goes.

The setup installer is Anaconda. If you have installed RH/Fedora before, you will feel right at home. It worked without a hitch for me, although at 480i/p you have to use Anaconda in text mode. Anaconda will only run in graphical mode at 1080i/p. No big deal as I would have ran it in text, anyway.

Once you are installed and running, if you want to change (TV) video modes, the command is:

ps3-video-mode -m x

(x being the mode number. man ps3-video-mode first.)

This will only change the video mode for the virtual window you are in.

Later, I hooked up a small 24" LCD 1080p to it, so I was playing around with different modes. After hooking back up to the CRT HDTV, I wanted to permanently set it at 480p. This is done by editing the boot loader config file.

The documentation refers you to /etc/kboot.conf , but it is outdated and wrong for YDL 6.1. The correct boot loader config file is now /etc/yaboot.conf The format for yaboot.conf is straightforward if you have edited many lilo configs before. I.e., you can make as many entries as you want, or just change the existing one. Press TAB at boot to select between them.

This is my entry for 480p. As you will see, I added "video=ps3fb:mode:2". The 2 is the mode number for 480p. This is also the correct format. There is supposed to be a colon between mode and 2 and none between 2 and rhgb. The mode numbers are the same mode numbers you will find after reading the man page for ps3-video-mode.

(The message board is going to screw up the spacing, but you'll get the idea.)

image=/vmlinux-2.6.28-0.ydl61.1
label=linux-480p
read-only
initrd=/initrd-2.6.28-0.ydl61.1.img
append="video=ps3fb:mode:2 rhgb quiet root=LABEL=/"


The PS3 is going to automatically boot Linux once you have set it to boot another OS. To get back into the PS3, you can either:

- Type boot-game-os at the boot prompt.

- Run ps3-boot-game-os in a root shell once logged in.

- Turn off (front power button), tap (front power button) to turn back on , press and hold (front power button) until you hear two beeps while it is powering back up. This will reset the boot loader back to the PS3. (It also changes the PS3's Game video resolution back to 480i, so you'll want to change that back to whatever it was.) Nothing else is changed.

(Pressing and holding the front power button after doing a power cycle with the main power switch on the back does a complete restore. Restores the PS3 back to it's factory settings and also does a full format of the HDD. Never done this before and sure don't want to. This takes about 3.5 hours to complete!)
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Message 927629 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009, 3:49:09 UTC - in response to Message 927599.  


The PS3 is going to automatically boot Linux once you have set it to boot another OS. To get back into the PS3, you can either:

- Type boot-game-os at the boot prompt.

- Run ps3-boot-game-os in a root shell once logged in.


Nice notes, wish I had had them way back when...

Only one difference I see on my system, not sure why, but I have to do
ps3-boot-game-os
at the kboot prompt when booting up to get back to the game OS. I used to have the older version of YDL on my system, and that one worked when I did
boot-game-os
but with 6.1, (on mine) it doesn't. I'm not that saavy with linux, though, so maybe I did something odd when installing?

-Dave
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Message 927806 - Posted: 21 Aug 2009, 20:18:45 UTC
Last modified: 21 Aug 2009, 20:19:53 UTC

Just added Astropulse.
Getting a "file doesn't have a version of Astropulse v505" message though.
Is that something to be concerned with?
Will it still d/l AP units?
(I don't think any are going out at the moment, anyway).

Once I see how AP does, probably will remove MB.

This is my (hand-edited) app_info.xml
(Message board is going to mangle the spacings.)

Both setiathome_2.3A_bin and astropulse-5.00_powerpc64-ps3-linux are present in the directory with correct permissions.
(It is crunching MB right now.)

Thanks...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

<app_info>
<app>
<name>setiathome_enhanced</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>setiathome_2.3A_bin</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
<version_num>515</version_num>
<file_ref>
<file_name>setiathome_2.3A_bin</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>

<app>
<name>astropulse</name>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>astropulse-5.00_powerpc64-ps3-linux</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>astropulse</app_name>
<version_num>500</version_num>
<file_ref>
<file_name>astropulse-5.00_powerpc64-ps3-linux</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Message boards : Number crunching : Does this seem right for crunch speed? (PS3, Linux)


 
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