I had a thought last night. Because I don't sleep. I am incapable of falling asleep before 2AM. Moving on.

It would make a lot of sense to donate in a way directly proportionate to how much resources you use.

I decided that it would be easier to do it by cores. It does not matter if it is a 1Ghz core, or a 3Ghz core. 1 core is one dollar. For CUDA cards, for every task that your CUDA card can perform simultaneously, that's two dollars (those things perform really fast.)

So, take for example my server. It has 8 cores. That's 8 dollars. Then there's the D610, that's 1 dollar. Then my laptop, running 7. That's a dollar. Cowell_PC, that's two. So there's 12 dollars, directly tied to how much resources I use. Note that the 98 and the laptop with the nvidia card are no longer in use. But for the laptop with the nvidia card, that would be 4 dollars. 2 cores and a CUDA capable of one task.

12 bucks. But how often? This is purely up to you. Do it monthly, do it yearly, do it whenever you feel nice. I am suggesting monthly, but again, it's however you feel like it.

I WAS going to give you mikeC's list of computers, but I realized that would be a bad example. But can someone explain how 2 cores at 2.55Ghz can turn out over two thousand RAC?! With no CUDA?




But.... consider my idea. If you don't know how much to donate, look to your computers page.

I had a thought last night. Because I don't sleep. I am incapable of falling asleep before 2AM. Moving on.

It would make a lot of sense to donate in a way directly proportionate to how much resources you use.

I decided that it would be easier to do it by cores. It does not matter if it is a 1Ghz core, or a 3Ghz core. 1 core is one dollar. For CUDA cards, for every task that your CUDA card can perform simultaneously, that's two dollars (those things perform really fast.)

So, take for example my server. It has 8 cores. That's 8 dollars. Then there's the D610, that's 1 dollar. Then my laptop, running 7. That's a dollar. Cowell_PC, that's two. So there's 12 dollars, directly tied to how much resources I use. Note that the 98 and the laptop with the nvidia card are no longer in use. But for the laptop with the nvidia card, that would be 4 dollars. 2 cores and a CUDA capable of one task.

12 bucks. But how often? This is purely up to you. Do it monthly, do it yearly, do it whenever you feel nice. I am suggesting monthly, but again, it's however you feel like it.

I WAS going to give you mikeC's list of computers, but I realized that would be a bad example. But can someone explain how 2 cores at 2.55Ghz can turn out over two thousand RAC?! With no CUDA?

But.... consider my idea. If you don't know how much to donate, look to your computers page.

A per core estimate is a poor system. It does not reflect the amount of work that is actually being done. A 3 CPU P2 comes out the same as a Core 2 Duo with an single cuda task running. There is a very wide gap there.

<sarcasim>
I think $1 USD * your RAC each month would be a much better donation.
</sarcasim>

Personally, I donate with my time and by paying my electric bill.

If they were actually given a super computer to crunch all this data on themselves they would be paying $1,000's or $10,000's a month for their power bill.

I say if you have spare cash to donate please do. If not. Donate in anyway you can.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

I had a thought last night. Because I don't sleep. I am incapable of falling asleep before 2AM. Moving on.

It would make a lot of sense to donate in a way directly proportionate to how much resources you use.

I decided that it would be easier to do it by cores. It does not matter if it is a 1Ghz core, or a 3Ghz core. 1 core is one dollar. For CUDA cards, for every task that your CUDA card can perform simultaneously, that's two dollars (those things perform really fast.)

So, take for example my server. It has 8 cores. That's 8 dollars. Then there's the D610, that's 1 dollar. Then my laptop, running 7. That's a dollar. Cowell_PC, that's two. So there's 12 dollars, directly tied to how much resources I use. Note that the 98 and the laptop with the nvidia card are no longer in use. But for the laptop with the nvidia card, that would be 4 dollars. 2 cores and a CUDA capable of one task.

12 bucks. But how often? This is purely up to you. Do it monthly, do it yearly, do it whenever you feel nice. I am suggesting monthly, but again, it's however you feel like it.

I WAS going to give you mikeC's list of computers, but I realized that would be a bad example. But can someone explain how 2 cores at 2.55Ghz can turn out over two thousand RAC?! With no CUDA?

But.... consider my idea. If you don't know how much to donate, look to your computers page.

A per core estimate is a poor system. It does not reflect the amount of work that is actually being done. A 3 CPU P2 comes out the same as a Core 2 Duo with an single cuda task running. There is a very wide gap there.

<sarcasim>
I think $1 USD * your RAC each month would be a much better donation.
</sarcasim>

Personally, I donate with my time and by paying my electric bill.

If they were actually given a super computer to crunch all this data on themselves they would be paying $1,000's or $10,000's a month for their power bill.

I say if you have spare cash to donate please do. If not. Donate in anyway you can.

Actually, your sarcasm might be a good idea. Take

$1USD * RAC, but then divide that by x.

The question is, what is x?

Or maybe, don't use x.

For every 1k RAC, donate 1 dollar. There. It seems small. I would be doing one dollar, TCP Jesus would be doing 20 dollars, you would be doing 10.


Awesome plan?

So... The more processing power you contribute, the more money you should contribute too? That also indirectly means, the more you spend in electricity, the more you should spend in SETI donations?

Doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

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Contribute to the Wiki!

So... The more processing power you contribute, the more money you should contribute too? That also indirectly means, the more you spend in electricity, the more you should spend in SETI donations?

Doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

What if you wanted to donate based on how many resources you are using? The more RAC, the more you regularly use the download and upload servers.

It's just an idea. I don't even live in california, I have no way of making this mandatory... And things like this should never be mandatory. just an idea. just an idea. just an idea just an idea just an idea just an idea

So... The more processing power you contribute, the more money you should contribute too? That also indirectly means, the more you spend in electricity, the more you should spend in SETI donations?

Doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

To succeed, SETI@Home needs "volunteer" computing power. Unfortunately, they also need to pay their electric bill, and staff salaries, and bandwidth.

Donations of any kind are of course voluntary, but if you have invested good money in "crunching hardware" and the power to run it, a little bit thrown toward the project once in a while is a good idea.

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I WAS going to give you mikeC's list of computers, but I realized that would be a bad example. But can someone explain how 2 cores at 2.55Ghz can turn out over two thousand RAC?! With no CUDA?

Thats about what I would expect with an optimised app and a few Astropulse units.

My partners C2 Duo is runnning 2100 RAC (@2.8ghz) My Q6600 does about 4,000 (@2.6ghz). Those are stock standard machines, cheapo all in one system boards etc.

A mild overclock will boost things as well, BOINC reports the standard speed of the CPU, not the actual clock speed.

Ian

I donated this time last year and will probably donate again.

HOWEVER. When I donated last year there was a similar situation with server/bandwidth problems and extended outages. People were donating in the belief that that the money would be used to alleviate those problems. Twelve months down the track and we're still on "square one" in these areas.

I would feel a lot happier and probably donate more if I could find out just how our donations are disbursed. Is a copy of the SAH budget available anywhere for examination so we can see just where the money goes ?

I realise that there are administration, power, rent, etc. costs to be met and agree that highly qualified people should definitely be paid accordingly, but I get wary about donating to a "black hole". Being able find out how much extra cash was required to solve the current technical problems and some reassurance that once the running costs were covered, any surplus would be used in their solution, would be a bigger incentive to donate than the incessant bleating of "give more money, give more money" that we see so often on these boards.

Brodo

Budget is here. Overall SETI@home donation history of last 12 months is here. See if you can get those 2 to match up ;)

Unfortunately that budget only lists proposed outgoings, there is no mention of income. Donations provided roughly 20% of the budget, what was the income from other sources and what was the shortfall ?

I note that in that budget, there is an amount of $80,000 to bring a Gigabyte link into the lab. Obviously this wasn't spent.

If we knew just how much money needed to be raised to meet that budget then we have a target to work towards rather than just being expected to sign a blank cheque. i.e. If gross income was $400,000 (for example) then we know that an extra $150,000 is required. If the project admins gave a guarantee that if the required money was raised, the GB link would be installed then I'm pretty sure we could raise it. A fixed target is always easier to hit than a moving one in a fog

Next question. If the income from donations increases is the funding from some other sources (i.e. Berkeley) cut back ?

Brodo

Hi,
How about for every $1 donated, the user gets their credit increased by 10 ?

A $10.00 donation would get their credit increased by 100.

A $100.00 donation would get their credit increased by 1000.

What is more important to the project, donations or distributed processing power?

From the messages, people seem more concerned about their RAC and credit than they do the science of the project.

For those that want the glory of RAC and credit, they could choose either way to achieve it.

Joe

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If the project admins gave a guarantee that if the required money was raised, the GB link would be installed then I'm pretty sure we could raise it. A fixed target is always easier to hit than a moving one in a fog

Its really difficult to offer a guarantee when there's too many variables outside of the project's control when it comes to certain things like bringing gigabit to the lab. Bringing gigabit requires more than just raising the money, it also requires following the proper procedures from Berkeley when bringing new services into the building(s).

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How about for every $1 donated, the user gets their credit increased by 10 ?

I do not know if he was joking, but Eric once said he'd be interested in looking at this option if it came down to it.

From my own personal perspective, I think that using money to increase one's RAC would devalue the actual computational contribution value of the Cobblestone. Perhaps since people like watching stats and competing to raise them, then maybe two new stats should be introduced under people's names: Money donated in the last quarter and Total money donated since joining the project.

---

How about for every $1 donated, the user gets their credit increased by 10 ?

I do not know if he was joking, but Eric once said he'd be interested in looking at this option if it came down to it.

From my own personal perspective, I think that using money to increase one's RAC would devalue the actual computational contribution value of the Cobblestone. Perhaps since people like watching stats and competing to raise them, then maybe two new stats should be introduced under people's names: Money donated in the last quarter and Total money donated since joining the project.

Perhaps in that idea ever became a reality it would be seomthign along the lines of being displayed as "Total Credit(Processing Credit)"

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

How about for every $1 donated, the user gets their credit increased by 10 ?

I do not know if he was joking, but Eric once said he'd be interested in looking at this option if it came down to it.

From my own personal perspective, I think that using money to increase one's RAC would devalue the actual computational contribution value of the Cobblestone. Perhaps since people like watching stats and competing to raise them, then maybe two new stats should be introduced under people's names: Money donated in the last quarter and Total money donated since joining the project.

Perhaps in that idea ever became a reality it would be seomthign along the lines of being displayed as "Total Credit(Processing Credit)"

We already have the WoW folks buying online gold lets not start it here as well.

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Unfortunately that budget only lists proposed outgoings, there is no mention of income. Donations provided roughly 20% of the budget, what was the income from other sources and what was the shortfall ?

I note that in that budget, there is an amount of $80,000 to bring a Gigabyte link into the lab. Obviously this wasn't spent.

If we knew just how much money needed to be raised to meet that budget then we have a target to work towards rather than just being expected to sign a blank cheque. i.e. If gross income was $400,000 (for example) then we know that an extra $150,000 is required. If the project admins gave a guarantee that if the required money was raised, the GB link would be installed then I'm pretty sure we could raise it. A fixed target is always easier to hit than a moving one in a fog

Next question. If the income from donations increases is the funding from some other sources (i.e. Berkeley) cut back ?

Brodo

There is no other income.
User and corporate donations only.
The operational costs of this project are over $600 a day and there is only half of that donated per day (on average).
This is why you haven't seen much progress in problems in the past year.
The only server upgrades were because someone/some company donated a server.
Bob

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Do you Good Search for Seti@Home? http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=888957
Or Good Shop? http://www.goodshop.com/?charityid=888957

Brodo et al

For many years I was the champion of Donations. Everyone has an "opinion" about Donations.
During several years, I (and Fuzzy) spent time speaking with Eric and finding ways to explain what was happening. One idea that was discussed was putting together a group of users that could discuss "Donations," Eric even asked for Volunteers. It would have ended up as a group that could ask questions and get answers back, then make informed statements. During that time Blurf was convinced to take over the Hardware Donations part. So currently it still concerned Users that are driving the issue.

For the Budget it can be found here SETI@home Budget - Fall 2008

Currently as Cash Donations (Users) are very close to the basic (scrape by) bills the doors stay open. Hardware Improvements have been Donations. So as to problems last year and the current issues we have a lot more users and computers banging on the doors.
Eric once made a statement in private conversation, it still confounds UCB of the shear volume of all the those small donations that they process have Seti earmarked.

Currently, various users are thinking of ways to Help with Keeping the Doors Open. I feel that that in itself shows there is almost enough information to understand the viscous cycle.

I have donated what I can (Cash and Hardware), computers resources, electricity and time... I give what I can. That is all that is asked.

What is shown for all that, I have "Workunits to crunch and Results to return!"
A Green Star. I have to labels beside my name one being the Volunteer Tester and the other being in the form of, one of the Forum Moderators.

Regards and Good Luck finding a Great Challenge.

I donated this time last year and will probably donate again.

HOWEVER. When I donated last year there was a similar situation with server/bandwidth problems and extended outages. People were donating in the belief that that the money would be used to alleviate those problems. Twelve months down the track and we're still on "square one" in these areas.

I would feel a lot happier and probably donate more if I could find out just how our donations are disbursed. Is a copy of the SAH budget available anywhere for examination so we can see just where the money goes ?

I realise that there are administration, power, rent, etc. costs to be met and agree that highly qualified people should definitely be paid accordingly, but I get wary about donating to a "black hole". Being able find out how much extra cash was required to solve the current technical problems and some reassurance that once the running costs were covered, any surplus would be used in their solution, would be a bigger incentive to donate than the incessant bleating of "give more money, give more money" that we see so often on these boards.

Brodo

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Regarding the fall 2008 budget, that was a "straw budget" showing how they planned to spend the amount of donations they were requesting. When such a budget is not approved (as in the money isn't provided) the usual procedure is to cross out non-essential lines, use holding actions rather than fixes for others, etc. If the provided money is enough to keep the project alive under those conditions, it keeps operating.

Should they have used the actual donations received to get a 1 GBit line, and cross out everything else? Of course not!

To get back to the topic of the thread, I don't think anyone should feel obligated to give money as well as do the work. Still it can be interesting to derive some numbers. BoincStats shows the total project RAC from the July 23 stats dump as very near 65 million credits per day. Divide the requested $548200 by 365 to get the wanted daily rate of about $1502. Divide that into 65 million to get 43278 credits per dollar. Since the minimum donation is 10 dollars if every participant donated 10 dollars each time their total credit crossed a multiple of 432780, pure math says the project would be in good shape. Of course many participants won't ever get to the first 432780....

With only a small fraction of users willing to donate cash, we have the same problem as other entities which need donations to survive. If those who actually donate do so generously enough they'll make up for those who don't. I read somewhere that public radio stations feel they've done well in fundraising if 3% of their listeners donate, and those stations can directly ask users to consider giving. Doing that several times an hour makes it likely that any listener who will give is reminded often enough they don't forget to actually do it.

I don't have any idea how to stimulate more donations, but I certainly appreciate threads which attempt solutions. My own approach has been to not buy new crunching equipment since I feel donating is more help to the project.

                                                                Joe

I don't have any idea how to stimulate more donations, but I certainly appreciate threads which attempt solutions. My own approach has been to not buy new crunching equipment since I feel donating is more help to the project.

I am now only running SETI on my slowest PC, leaving my other two faster computers to other projects. With less work coming from my systems, this will help free up a tiny portion of the bandwidth for the SETI project. To make up for the lack of results being returned from my systems, I will start making a financial donation on a monthly basis to help the project.

Maybe others could help the SETI project by doing this as well.

Joe

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Regarding the fall 2008 budget, that was a "straw budget" showing how they planned to spend the amount of donations they were requesting. When such a budget is not approved (as in the money isn't provided) the usual procedure is to cross out non-essential lines, use holding actions rather than fixes for others, etc. If the provided money is enough to keep the project alive under those conditions, it keeps operating.

Should they have used the actual donations received to get a 1 GBit line, and cross out everything else? Of course not!

To get back to the topic of the thread, I don't think anyone should feel obligated to give money as well as do the work. Still it can be interesting to derive some numbers. BoincStats shows the total project RAC from the July 23 stats dump as very near 65 million credits per day. Divide the requested $548200 by 365 to get the wanted daily rate of about $1502. Divide that into 65 million to get 43278 credits per dollar. Since the minimum donation is 10 dollars if every participant donated 10 dollars each time their total credit crossed a multiple of 432780, pure math says the project would be in good shape. Of course many participants won't ever get to the first 432780....

With only a small fraction of users willing to donate cash, we have the same problem as other entities which need donations to survive. If those who actually donate do so generously enough they'll make up for those who don't. I read somewhere that public radio stations feel they've done well in fundraising if 3% of their listeners donate, and those stations can directly ask users to consider giving. Doing that several times an hour makes it likely that any listener who will give is reminded often enough they don't forget to actually do it.

I don't have any idea how to stimulate more donations, but I certainly appreciate threads which attempt solutions. My own approach has been to not buy new crunching equipment since I feel donating is more help to the project.

                                                                Joe

If I didn't get a 15% pay cut starting in July I'd be able to donate cash. For now I've purchased a few things to make my home computer more efficient to lower my electric bill. Spend $100 to gain $200 over the year sort of stuff. I'm hoping that next year I'll be able to make a some cash donations.

This would probably be a question for Blurf. Anyone know if they get donations for simple stuff that they have to purchase now. Like office supplies and what not? Might be able to hit up some local office depots or whatever is the the area for things of this nature.

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SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[