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Blitzed Again (Jul 02 2009)
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![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 1 Mar 99 Posts: 1444 Credit: 957,058 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Looks like we're back in another noisy period, or at least the bandwidth is maxed out enough that it's constraining both downloads and uploads. Let's just try to ride this storm out - it should hopefully clear up on its own. Regarding the videos I linked to yesterday, there were plans to get the powerpoint images linked into the actual camera footage, but I guess that never panned out. That's fine. Or maybe that only happened on the live feed... Anyway, you get the basic gist of what we're trying to say from this footage. I was kind of rushing through my talk - how do you condense 10 years of effort into 20 minutes? We were hoping to get the NTPCkr pages up this week but I'm finding that I really need to update the FAQ and other informational pages before making this live, lest we get flooded with common questions. Plus we have a little bit of feature creep, which is okay - better to rush and do these things now or they'll probably never get done. - Matt -- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person -- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude |
Larry Coolidge ![]() Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 19 Credit: 63,791,393 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Thanks for the update. Things just keep plugging along until the dam breaks. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 31 Jul 01 Posts: 2467 Credit: 86,146,931 RAC: 0 ![]() |
But..........I thought changes had been made at Berkeley so that noisy work being split out could not overwhelm the system. Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc.... |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 1 Mar 99 Posts: 1444 Credit: 957,058 RAC: 0 ![]() |
But..........I thought changes had been made at Berkeley so that noisy work being split out could not overwhelm the system. By noisy I mostly meant "chaotic and busy." Yes, there are mechanisms in place to work on multiple raw data files simultaneously to avoid getting deluged with one particularly noisy data file. It's not perfect, though. I'm not exactly sure what's going on currently but I've been busy with other things to do much sleuthing. We're currently pegged on our network - that means workunits are being downloaded as fast as we possibly can send them - so there's not much I can do. - Matt -- BOINC/SETI@home network/web/science/development person -- "Any idiot can have a good idea. What is hard is to do it." - Jeanne-Claude |
Jörg Send message Joined: 10 Dec 02 Posts: 51 Credit: 1,547,286 RAC: 0 ![]() |
[quote]We're currently pegged on our network - that means workunits are being downloaded as fast as we possibly can send them - so there's not much I can do. Good evening, why do you not send out "bigger" workunits of all applications, lets say 4 times the size you did in the past, to get rid of the pressure to Seti´s network capacity? If you dont want to send such bigger WU´s to all participants, make it an option in the account settings, as long as you give fair credits, most of the participants with good hardware will crunch this bigger WU´s and the guys with older hardware are able to crunch the "normal" WU´s in time. Am Ende ist nur Verwirrung |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 31 Jul 01 Posts: 2467 Credit: 86,146,931 RAC: 0 ![]() |
But..........I thought changes had been made at Berkeley so that noisy work being split out could not overwhelm the system. Thanks for taking the time to answer me and thanks for your hard work there at Berkeley. Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc.... |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 29 Feb 00 Posts: 16019 Credit: 794,685 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Thanks for All the Efforts Berkeley - it is Sincerely appreciated [and Thanks for the Updates Matt . . .] ![]() Science Status Page . . . |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 20 Apr 00 Posts: 105 Credit: 841,861 RAC: 0 ![]() |
It seems to me that the log jams and bottlenecks in the system are ever increasing and are not going to go away. This isn't a criticism: it indicates the overwhelming success, progress, and participant interest in the project. I come back to a suggestion that I and several others have raised before; that it may be high time to "franchise" SETI and have several download/upload servers distributed across various universities, perhaps under the auspices of the SETI Institute. This would lighten the overall load and increase the capacity of SETI, especially considering the higher throughput wish-list of analysing a larger frequency domain, as described in Dan Werthimer's endnote speech to the recent 10 year celebratory meeting. Are the obstacles to this solution something that the volunteer base of SETI can help to address? (e.g. funding, testing, "political" pressure). Just trying to help. ![]() |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 ![]() |
It seems to me that the log jams and bottlenecks in the system are ever increasing and are not going to go away. Keep in mind that the SETI Institute may not want to help, for political reasons. SETI@Home likely could move equipment out of their closet at SSL, and put it at the other end of the wire. The problem is that the splitters need to write to the download server(s), and the validators need to pull from the upload server(s) -- all it really does is move the bottleneck from one end of the current wire to the other. There might be an advantage in doing that, but it might not be the advantage we all really want. |
CryptokiD ![]() Send message Joined: 2 Dec 00 Posts: 150 Credit: 3,216,632 RAC: 0 ![]() |
i believe they are paying for a gigabit line yet because the proper cables havent been installed, they are only able to use 100mbit. that's what 12 megabytes a second? most hard drives today easily top 50 megabytes/second, so i would understand why the cricket graph stays pegged for days. maybe it's time to trench the lawn and install that gigabit cable. i know its expensive and labour consuming. too bad berkley is 4 time zones away. i have a 300hp trenching machine. i wish i could help more. i do try to suspend my machines from contacting seti when the cricket graph is pegged. my handfull of computers probably wont matter though. |
![]() Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 74 Credit: 1,266,810 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I think there is merit to the idea of sharing the SETI@Home database to data servers across the Internet and leveraging the distributed servers' bandwidth. P2P networks are very good at demonstrating the power of collective bandwidth for spreading information from a single source :) But it will require substantial redesign of the way S@H works and will require trustworthy servers to ensure that the data coming back is verifiable. |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13884 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 ![]() ![]() |
I think there is merit to the idea of sharing the SETI@Home database to data servers across the Internet and leveraging the distributed servers' bandwidth. P2P networks are very good at demonstrating the power of collective bandwidth for spreading information from a single source :) The problem is you still have to get that data from & too the Seti Servers. And that is where the present network bottlneck is. Grant Darwin NT |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I think there is merit to the idea of sharing the SETI@Home database to data servers across the Internet and leveraging the distributed servers' bandwidth. P2P networks are very good at demonstrating the power of collective bandwidth for spreading information from a single source :) Actually it doesn't require trustworthy machines, because the work still has to validate. The problem is that the work is split at the Space Sciences Lab, and to distribute SETI@Home, you'd still have to move work in and out of the Lab. Sooner or later, the existing bandwidth runs out. |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 ![]() |
maybe it's time to trench the lawn and install that gigabit cable. i know its expensive and labour consuming. too bad berkley is 4 time zones away. i have a 300hp trenching machine. It's more than a short trench, it's a good distance from the lab to main campus. The other problem: gigabit-capable routers and interfaces. |
Cosmic_Ocean ![]() Send message Joined: 23 Dec 00 Posts: 3027 Credit: 13,516,867 RAC: 13 ![]() ![]() |
maybe it's time to trench the lawn and install that gigabit cable. i know its expensive and labour consuming. too bad berkley is 4 time zones away. i have a 300hp trenching machine. If my memory serves me properly, I thought it was somewhere near a mile? I know it's quite a way uphill. Linux laptop: record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up) |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13884 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 ![]() ![]() |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31123 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
maybe it's time to trench the lawn and install that gigabit cable. i know its expensive and labour consuming. too bad berkley is 4 time zones away. i have a 300hp trenching machine. IIRC there is a dark fiber already in place for the run. But it belongs to the campus though not SETI@Home. There is some considerable politics so it isn't just hardware and cash. As to the bandwidth I don't know how much is being chewed by VLAR killers, but I think the project needs to be tuned to direct those machines to their backup projects or get the owners to remove the VLAR killer and instead use a re-scheduler to turn the CUDA task into a GPU task. Bandwidth is too important to waste. For the future BOINC may need a re-write so it simply sends the task and the user side decides if it is a CUDA or GPU. May need to send a hint along with the data. Failing that the splitters would need to be re-written so they split CUDA/GPU better based on expected task length. But that is a per-project fix rather than a BOINC wide fix. Looks like it going to be a crunch 'em if you've got 'em weekend. And Happy Birthday USA. ![]() |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 22 Jul 00 Posts: 86 Credit: 2,846,236 RAC: 0 ![]() |
I second this =) Nobody is nobody. Everyone has something to offer |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Since connectivity on campus is provided by the IST department (the folks who brought you Cricket) they have to maintain it. ... and if there isn't a good clean line-of-sight from the lab to the right building(s) on Campus, then RF isn't a good choice. |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 ![]() |
maybe it's time to trench the lawn and install that gigabit cable. i know its expensive and labour consuming. too bad berkley is 4 time zones away. i have a 300hp trenching machine. I think it is just hardware and cash. IST is willing to do it, but they don't have the money in their budget -- they want SETI (or SSL) to fund it. ... at least that's what has been said here in the past. |
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