If so then fine return My donation in full, Immediately or as soon as possible. As I will not make another donation ever again until this problem is fixed.

From a practical standpoint, the only way for the project to return your donation is probably for Eric or Dan to reach into their own pockets, and send you $20.

I'm sure this will be fixed "as soon as possible" but this is a very good follow-on to my earlier post.

"As soon as possible" can take a lot longer than some people expect.

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Talking about "as soon as possible", the problem about VLARs running slow has been documented since my Beta report on 15 January - some three hours after v6.08 - the first to compute VLARs at all - was released for Beta download. If it could be fixed easily, it would have been done by now.

What makes it so important today?

Wow
So Much Heartache and Grief!

If I beat the dead horse it only has one more mile to run.... Then I am home...

Many of you have made valid points! It has been pointed to Admins and Nvidia...

Several of the users "here" are members of the Boinc Community (Alpha and Dev) and see things that are happening that they tell you about. They are also a prime source to get information into the group doing the developement. You are also allowed to if nothing else monitor those specific Email Lists. If you feel strongly enough about it you can Join. Then your voice is "one of those in the know." It just takes a bit of time reading.

ELSE; you have to rely on those "here" that look and do there. It is also one of the ways you can recieve the Volunteer Tester thing under your name.

Regards

Pappa

PPS: here I thought that my many years of Donations Threads was what was driving users away. After many hours of conversation with Eric on the subject, Users come and go. The hard part is that the reasons they come and go are not always obvious. Summer is coming and many will shutoff machines until fall (some will not come back)... That will surely mess with everyones Pending Credits (Oops you want me to return these?)....

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Clarification of My last post Only: So not crunching on the gpu that does the video is not a practical idea(It's a stupid idea really) I'd think as GTX295 cards are an expensive minority of CUDA capable cards, In which case only GTX295 Cards or those people with more than one CUDA capable card would crunch, The rest would just do video and no CUDA.

The option would be when the user is active. If the user is not active, then the system video slow downs would not be a problem.

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BOINC WIKI

If You can't do this then return the $20 donation to Me.

You don't get to hold the project administrators hostage with your donation, period.

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me@rescam.org

The other point that occurs to me is "Has SJ actually run out of work because of the 24 hour back-off?" (He obviously can't answer this himself since I am blacklisted). As Richard says, if the VLAR killer returns 100+ consecutive VLARs then the back-off will be 24 hours but only until a non-error is returned and there should be plenty of those well within that 24 hour period so all it needs is a click on the "Update" button to report them isn't it?

I had 60 VLAR kills in a row at BETA so I 'hit the daily quota' so to speak for 24 hours. Even so my GPU kept crunching happily here.

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me@rescam.org

SJ the lagging of the screen is not a boinc problem. it is a cuda problem.

try for example folding at home and you will experience the same behavior on nvidia and ati powered gpu's like on seti main.

best solution i found is to buy a second cheap video card and make that the primary display rendering device.


another important thing is that the graphic card should have as much mem as posible.

on the same host i tryed a 8600gt 256 ddr2 and 512 ddr3. the first had given me quite a headachei doing anything else than cuda. on the 512 it was much better.

The other point that occurs to me is "Has SJ actually run out of work because of the 24 hour back-off?" (He obviously can't answer this himself since I am blacklisted). As Richard says, if the VLAR killer returns 100+ consecutive VLARs then the back-off will be 24 hours but only until a non-error is returned and there should be plenty of those well within that 24 hour period so all it needs is a click on the "Update" button to report them isn't it?

I had 60 VLAR kills in a row at BETA so I 'hit the daily quota' so to speak for 24 hours.

you can make the host always connected so right after a workunit is finished it will be reported. so you will never reach the minimum daily quota,

If so then fine return My donation in full, Immediately or as soon as possible.

I'll bet they could send you a handbag of equal cash value. Right Pappa?

If I beat the dead horse it only has one more mile to run.... Then I am home...

The other point that occurs to me is "Has SJ actually run out of work because of the 24 hour back-off?" (He obviously can't answer this himself since I am blacklisted). As Richard says, if the VLAR killer returns 100+ consecutive VLARs then the back-off will be 24 hours but only until a non-error is returned and there should be plenty of those well within that 24 hour period so all it needs is a click on the "Update" button to report them isn't it?

I had 60 VLAR kills in a row at BETA so I 'hit the daily quota' so to speak for 24 hours.

you can make the host always connected so right after a workunit is finished it will be reported. so you will never reach the minimum daily quota,

I know. Problem is I didn't have any non-VLARs at the time so I didn't have anything else to work on and upload.

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me@rescam.org

As it happens, I had an email today from the nVidia developer who did a major part of the port. He said:

I am aware of the VLAR sluggishness and have spent some time trying different way to resolve it given the current pulse detection algorithm with not much luck. The bottom line is that when using CUDA on the same GPU that also used as the graphical display, it is difficult to prioritize one type of GPU client over another on the current HW architecture. SETI@home is not alone, this issue can affect any CUDA application that demands high amounts of time from CUDA.

That adds an interesting question: is there a way to reduce the "graphics" demand on the card if the owner is mostly interested in crunching.

Setting the display to the minimum resolution and the minimum color depth might make a difference -- and would be an interesting experiment.

I wonder if some of the same kind optimizations (rearranging execution order) that help the CPU apps would help the GPU apps.

There are two problems with the VLAR tasks.

1) They take absolutely ages

2) If they are running on the GUI GPU, they cause sluggishness and lagging on the display and other applications using that display.

SJ's problem is with (1). I have every sympathy. I don't do VLAR on CUDA either - it's not worth it. But I use a more sophisticated workround - one developed, as it happens, by Fred W, who is too modest by half. SJ, you should learn who your friends are, and reconsider your decision not to listen to Fred W. You might learn something to your advantage.

Problem (1) is the hard one, and nobody seems to have a solution. Jason Gee is working on it - he found a reference today which may help: "WooHoo, Found it in Bailey's paper. "FFTs in External or Hierarchical Memory", David H. Bailey December 30, 1989. Ref: Journal of Supercomputing, vol. 4, no. 1 (March 1990), p. 23{35". But don't hold your breath.

The nVidia developer's concern - today - was with problem (2), the screen lag. He had a useful suggestion - make the new "don't use GPU while computer is in use" option in BOINC v6.6.20 apply only to GPU cards driving the user interface display - which I have forwarded to Eric and David. Watch this space, as they say.

Thanks for reading my post. I thought I had read the vlar was included in the 6.6.20, my mistake. I was unable to find the release notes on the boinc site so sue me.

I'm still waiting to hear it SJ tried Raistmers v.11 CUDA app?

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

you could have disabled cuda. and crunched from an earlier backup of boinc data dir

Clarification of My last post Only: So not crunching on the gpu that does the video is not a practical idea(It's a stupid idea really) I'd think as GTX295 cards are an expensive minority of CUDA capable cards, In which case only GTX295 Cards or those people with more than one CUDA capable card would crunch, The rest would just do video and no CUDA.

The option would be when the user is active. If the user is not active, then the system video slow downs would not be a problem.

It is still a stupid idea.

Why? If the user is having trouble with the display, wouldn't it be a good idea t turn off crunching on the display while the user was active?

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BOINC WIKI

Clarification of My last post Only: So not crunching on the gpu that does the video is not a practical idea(It's a stupid idea really) I'd think as GTX295 cards are an expensive minority of CUDA capable cards, In which case only GTX295 Cards or those people with more than one CUDA capable card would crunch, The rest would just do video and no CUDA.

The option would be when the user is active. If the user is not active, then the system video slow downs would not be a problem.

It is still a stupid idea.

Why? If the user is having trouble with the display, wouldn't it be a good idea t turn off crunching on the display while the user was active?

Then I guess I wasted My money in the video card of My choice as I spent $480 total so that I could crunch with both cores(gpus), I hate typing.

It will still crunch when you are NOT active.

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BOINC WIKI

SJ try updating youre video drivers to version 185.68.

i obseved an amelioration of the slugishness. maybe it helps you too

try then with the new whql non beta version 182.50

Clarification of My last post Only: So not crunching on the gpu that does the video is not a practical idea(It's a stupid idea really) I'd think as GTX295 cards are an expensive minority of CUDA capable cards, In which case only GTX295 Cards or those people with more than one CUDA capable card would crunch, The rest would just do video and no CUDA.

The option would be when the user is active. If the user is not active, then the system video slow downs would not be a problem.

It is still a stupid idea.

Why? If the user is having trouble with the display, wouldn't it be a good idea t turn off crunching on the display while the user was active?

Then I guess I wasted My money in the video card of My choice as I spent $480 total so that I could crunch with both cores(gpus), I hate typing.

It will still crunch when you are NOT active.

A video Guru may correct me if I'm wrong but I believe BOINC will see multiple GPUs as a single graphics card (ergo a single GPU) much like my system sees both harddrives as a single RAID drive.

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me@rescam.org

Clarification of My last post Only: So not crunching on the gpu that does the video is not a practical idea(It's a stupid idea really) I'd think as GTX295 cards are an expensive minority of CUDA capable cards, In which case only GTX295 Cards or those people with more than one CUDA capable card would crunch, The rest would just do video and no CUDA.

The option would be when the user is active. If the user is not active, then the system video slow downs would not be a problem.

It is still a stupid idea.

Why? If the user is having trouble with the display, wouldn't it be a good idea t turn off crunching on the display while the user was active?

Then I guess I wasted My money in the video card of My choice as I spent $480 total so that I could crunch with both cores(gpus), I hate typing.

It will still crunch when you are NOT active.

A video Guru may correct me if I'm wrong but I believe BOINC will see multiple GPUs as a single graphics card (ergo a single GPU) much like my system sees both harddrives as a single RAID drive.

Remember You asked for It, The GTX295 has two gpus as You said, For the card to be used as two separate gpus, SLI must be disabled and I've done that already, But It's at stock speed as this card uses 209w more than the 7800GTX(80w) that the GTX295(289w) replaced.

Each GPU has to be treated separately. They don't cooperate as well as 2 CPUs where at least multi threading can be done.

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BOINC WIKI

Looong thread..

I don't know, if someone pointed:
The current CUDA V6.08 is only a 'short' available app.
But 'short' mean now some months - and I hope it will not last years..

I think some didn't followed the release of the CUDA app here at SETI@home.

At the beginning you got BSOD, driver crash and similar probs with your PC.
Because of a BUG in the CUDA app.
Then the developers worked and published a new CUDA app [V 6.08] and the prob with BSOD and other similar probs were solved.
But the little side effect is - the VLARs will calculate slowly.. very slowly.. - BUT I think it's better than BSOD and similar, or?

Yes - I let run Raistmer's 'VLAR kill' mod..
Because ~ 8 min. for a 'normally' [AR=0.44x] and ~ 55 min. [VL-AR= ?] (can't remember which) is very disappointing.

But I don't feel well - because after 6 errors came home - the complete WU will be deleted from the Berkeley data base - and maybe there was the 'WOW-signal' and nobody noted it?

Yes - of course this would be well:

mod the Berkeley server software -

1. VLARs only to CPU rigs
2. that if a modded CUDA app 'killed' a VLAR, this WU ONLY again to a CPU rig.
3. rise the error numbers of every WU from 6 to X [I don't know what would be well]

[EDIT:
4. maybe mod the 'VLAR kill' that it will delete only the WU on the rig.
AFAIK - this will not count to the errors, or?
BUT - sorry to the 'wingmen'..
Or what would be possible also to reduce the worst case?]


Yes.. OTOH.. if you buy a GPU and you will not get WUs for it..
It's your prob - not the prob of the project.


It was discussed here very often..

We [the members] support the project.
The project don't support us.

For example if the rigs get faster and faster..
Or if now all the members of SETI@home buy a fast GPU..
Then SETI@home would not have enough WUs for all members..


And yes - look to my profile here..
I donated a lot of hardware to my one and only loved project SETI@home.
Because I believe to the science.
And I like to support the project.

In some eyes it's maybe not much..
But I don't have much money like maybe other have.

And I hope Berkeley would give me all the time enough work for my rigs. :-)
To be crunching 24/7.
And I hope they will not reduce the WUs/GPU/day or the size of the cache [10 days].
If I would see the rigs idle [or they are OFF because of rebuild] I feel 'ill'.. because I need the noise of the fans to feel well.. ;-)

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Just got up, heavy thread to read with first coffee.

Think that your request SJ is OTT. Especially as you knew about the problem before you got you latest graphics card. You are also running a non standard ver/script to kill the VLAR tasks so you have two choices, continue as you are and accept the consequences, which I believe are unfounded, or do all the tasks given to you no matter how long they take.

As I said above I think here, as opposed to Beta, which you don't do, the chances of getting such a large batch of consecutive VLAR's without reporting a good task, so that your tasks/day is reduced to one are very slim.

Your later comment about MB's being Seti and AP not is like buying an AM/FM radio and never using the FM band. The AM signal will probably, nay almost certain to, have interference on it. Whilst the FM broadcast will probably be interference free and be available in stereo as well. (AM 10kHz bandwidth, narrow band, FM 75kHz bandwidth, broad band)

And if you are interested in credits the AP tasks, using optimised app, pay much more. Look at your banished friends quad no graphics computer