Standards that do not have majority usage agreement are meaningless.

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When we finally figure it all out, all the rules will change and we can start all over again.

Standards that do not have majority usage agreement are meaningless.

Indeed so.

Note that most recent websites develop their sites to follow the standards to give a good clean result, and then as a second step add all the (expensive) silly funkiness required to then get the various versions of IE to do something half appropriate.

The exception to that are the few IIS sites that are MS-only that will remain MS-only in any case.

Anyone wish to play a game of Monopoly?...

Cheers,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

That's odd, because its on my Tools menu.

[Edit] I just realized that you're looking at the buttons on the upper right hand side of the browser: Home, RSS Feeds, Email, Print, Page [drop down], Safety [drop down], Tools [drop down] and Help [drop down].

That's not the tools menu I'm talking about. Though, if the Menu bar is disabled by default on all machines, I can see how it would confuse users.

The tools menu I'm talking about is like the old File menu drop down options that usually exist right beneath the address bar in the upper left hand corner of the browser.

Thanks for the info, Ozzfan. Checked on my XP rigs, their're there, but not on any of the IE8 (Vista) rigs. All I did was intall 8 over 7, & it kept all my bookmarks & favourites. Wonder why the file menu disappeared?

Edit: - Just right clicked under the address bar & found the menu bar disabled - weird. all ok now.

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That's odd, because its on my Tools menu.

[Edit] I just realized that you're looking at the buttons on the upper right hand side of the browser: Home, RSS Feeds, Email, Print, Page [drop down], Safety [drop down], Tools [drop down] and Help [drop down].

That's not the tools menu I'm talking about. Though, if the Menu bar is disabled by default on all machines, I can see how it would confuse users.

The tools menu I'm talking about is like the old File menu drop down options that usually exist right beneath the address bar in the upper left hand corner of the browser.

Thanks for the info, Ozzfan. Checked on my XP rigs, their're there, but not on any of the IE8 (Vista) rigs. All I did was intall 8 over 7, & it kept all my bookmarks & favourites. Wonder why the file menu disappeared?

I can't really answer that, but I noticed this is the default visual style of IE on Vista (and probably Win7 as well). If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that they (Microsoft) are trying to do away with the antiquated File menu look with a more crisp, clutter free look.

Anyway, if you want to get the original File menu back, you can actually click on the Tools drop down in the upper right hand corner, go to Tool Bars and select Menu Bar. This will give you the File, Edit, View, Favorites, Tools and Help menus like in Windows XP.

[Edit] LOL I see you've found it in your last edit.

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Ah yes, Monopoly. If you don't play the game you are automatically a loser.
Join or lose. Just like the Borg eh?
Any small isniginifant group can structure a set of standards these days, and publish them, but if 80 or 90 percent of the public using something else, then their efforts, while noble, are lost and they fall into the realm of the insignificant. But fear not, our governments will come to their aid with Billions to bail out the inept.

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When we finally figure it all out, all the rules will change and we can start all over again.

Installed it on WinXP x64 (Core i7) and my lowly subnotebook which has WinXP x86 and just an 1GHz ULV Pentium M.

Well, it works. It seems to render faster, and it seems to have a lower memory footprint. I'm not yet sure if I like all the new features though, as I'm always extremely nostalgic and conservative when it comes to software... oh well. ;)

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3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP HiNT Rev.A 3700 prototype, dead HiNT bridge

Standards that do not have majority usage agreement are meaningless.

Standards that are decided by fate accompli, can be very bad, and lead to confusion and stop further innovation.

Try modem V34 standards and ISA/MCA bus.

Indeed "fait accompli" can be very bad for those on the receiving side of that fate...

Old news now but still having an effect now, today:

ZDNET article: ...accusing Microsoft of denying consumers a host of new technologies


Keep searchin',
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

...
Any small isniginifant group can structure a set of standards these days, and publish them, but if 80 or 90 percent of the public using something else, then their efforts, while noble, are lost and they fall into the realm of the insignificant.
...

Web standards are established by the World Wide Web Consortium, and Microsoft is a very active member of that group. The difficulty arises because IE7 and IE8 need to be able to work well with web pages which were haphazardly coded to look good in IE6. Firefox, Opera, and other browsers also have to do as well as possible with broken sites. The unfortunate consequence is the authors of those sites take a quick look with the latest browser, see it still looks OK, and don't bother trying for standards compliance.

                                                                Joe

There have been some attempts to mitigate issues with backwards-compatibility with noncompliant browsers, such as the Compatibility Mode in IE8. Here's an IEBlog article that explains the issue pretty well.

The main idea is to use two different rendering modes, one that is backwards-compatible but possibly non-compliant with standards for the legacy sites and a standards-based rendering mode. AFAIK a website needs to explicitly enable IE8's standards mode, otherwise it falls back to IE7's based behavior.

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While playing around with IE8, I have found that I can go to Tools -> Internet Options -> Tabs Settings -> When a new tab is opened, open: "your first home page" so that instead of wheel-clicking on the Home icon like in Firefox 3, I can have each new tab opened right to my home page simply by opening a new tab.

Now if only Microsoft would include a spell-checker and something comparable to Cooliris, I wouldn't mind leaving Firefox 3 behind... ...and if only I could easily import my Thunderbird email into Microsoft's Outlook, Vista Mail or even IncrediMail would be nice.

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While playing around ...

Now if only Microsoft would ... I wouldn't mind leaving Firefox 3 behind... ...and if only I could easily import my Thunderbird email into Microsoft's Outlook, Vista Mail or even IncrediMail would be nice.

Noooo... Noooo... Arrrgh... No more!

All together now:

We don't need no TNEF encapsulation
We don't need no Winmail.dat
No dark blocks in the email
Teachers leave them MIMEs alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them MIMEs alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the net
All in all you're just another ... in the net


All just a personal view as ever...

Cheers,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

All in all you're just another ... in the net

chick?

thick?

flick?

mnemonic?

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All in all you're just another ... in the net

chick?

thick?

flick?

mnemonic?

Whatever clothing of the Emperor you might choose to wear from Marketing.


Please insert your ideas here!

:-)

Cheers,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

OK... Insert:

"Marketing statistic"

(Or is that going to be modded out as being far far too 'blasphemous'?)


I'm sure other ...ics come to mind...


Keep searchin',
Martin

Special note: no other postings are referenced by this post, either by forum links or by any implication whatsoever.

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

shtick?

gimmick?

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I've installed IE8 in a virtual machine and it appears to work. There are a lot of notices and things I have to click on. Too many. I hope they "learn" and go away after a while. IE8 has crashed on me several times while browsing very normal sites (news, weather, etc.). Reloading the site after restarting IE works, so it's definitely some flaking code in IE8.

Once they fix these serious bugs, IE8 might be a good browser.

I've installed IE8 in a virtual machine and it appears to work. There are a lot of notices and things I have to click on. Too many. I hope they "learn" and go away after a while. IE8 has crashed on me several times while browsing very normal sites (news, weather, etc.). Reloading the site after restarting IE works, so it's definitely some flaking code in IE8.

Once they fix these serious bugs, IE8 might be a good browser.

Interesting. I've been playing around with IE8 since I started this thread and I have not had too many "notices" or other things to click on, and I have yet to have IE8 crash on me.

Something tells me it may be your install (either Windows or IE8).

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Well, I found out that Cooliris does offer a plugin for IE8. At least that's another neat tool I don't have to do without from switching.

Though I noticed what you mean by too many prompts. Every site that wants to run Flash or some other plugin, it constantly shows a yellow bar above and you have to actually allow the use. Of course, you can choose to allow the applet to run on all sites, but with some of the recent flaws found in Adobe's software which have been exploited by hackers, I'm wondering if this is a good idea (and note that these flaws exist in all versions of the plugins for Windows regardless of the browser).

Still no crashes yet. Haven't tried forcing it to crash, but still no crashes.

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I was running IE8 inside a Windows 2000 Server virtual machine. Not sure if Microsoft tested that configuration. :)