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The unions have been hung by their own petards..............
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31015 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
From the Los Angeles Times |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51478 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
From the Los Angeles Times I'd like to give this Cutler fellow a big kick in his...... His attitude and opinion is that rather than the UA F-ing W realizing that they are no longer the only kid on the block, and they are part of a competitive market, they should hijack the free market system and, by unionizing their competition, force everybody else in the country to continue to support them and the ridiculously posh wage and benefit structure they have managed to extort from all of us over the past years via the Big 3. Don't bail them out at my expense please. Let them reap what they have sown. It may cause additional chaos in our already bad economy....but I am sure the foreign automakers will be happy to ramp up and supply us with more economical cars produced by non-union workers earning a more honest wage. Like the rest of us in this country who buy automobiles.... UAW.....your free ride is over, get in the back seat and pay the cabbie. "Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once." |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24913 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Excellent...........the union leaders over here need to do the same!!!! |
StormKing Send message Joined: 6 Nov 00 Posts: 456 Credit: 2,887,579 RAC: 0 |
The unions are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Unionizing more industry in the US would lead to more outsourcing and even greater job losses. Furthermore, union shops have very little production flexibility, as evident in Detroit. Honda of America on the other hand has the flexibility of shifting production to meet customers' demands. That is why they have never had a layoff in the US even though sales are way down (down 30% +). To the Japanese automobile manufacturers, unions are the plague. And the United Auto Workers (UAW) admit to having a tough time getting new union members when they visit Japanese manufacturers' plants (called 'transplants') in the U.S. "People just aren’t interested," said one union organizer. UAW And Why Honda And Toyota Workers Are Not Interested |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
The unions are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Unionizing more industry in the US would lead to more outsourcing and even greater job losses. Furthermore, union shops have very little production flexibility, as evident in Detroit. Honda of America on the other hand has the flexibility of shifting production to meet customers' demands. I really can't understand how anyone could possibly blame unions for the outsourcing of jobs to third world slave states. The blame lies with the greed of the corporate elites. Some union working person, making a decent living with the security of knowing they have healthcare when needed and a pension at the end of their working life cannot possibly be the source of the problem. Focus your sights on the jerks making $40 million a year before you complain about working people. |
StormKing Send message Joined: 6 Nov 00 Posts: 456 Credit: 2,887,579 RAC: 0 |
The unions are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Unionizing more industry in the US would lead to more outsourcing and even greater job losses. Furthermore, union shops have very little production flexibility, as evident in Detroit. Honda of America on the other hand has the flexibility of shifting production to meet customers' demands. Unions should not get the full blame, but there is plenty of blame to go around. Management is given the task of doing what is best for the stockholders. If that means moving production to a more business friendly environment then that is what they do (for better or worse). If they do not keep in mind the needs of the stockholders, they should be fired.
I do not have a problem paying employees a honest wage set by the market. The bigger problem is the fact that unions make it very difficult for a producer to be flexible. This is part of the reason why detroit is in such a mess, they could not switch production from suv's to small cars quickly enough. I admit, this is also a lack of forsight on behalf of management. Snd they continue to sell cars that cannot compete with foreign rivals.
Who are these jerks? Executives at the big three do not make nearly that much. And if they were, it would be the stockholders' problem. They are the ones footing the bill. |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
What does your interpretation of flexible include? The problem comes when the overseers use flexibility to mean sourcing materials and parts made overseas, taking jobs away in North America. When they say working people have to start working split shifts to cover peak periods, when more people should be hired instead. When they put employees on call, rather than keep them around full-time. When they force employees to do extra work on their own time before or after a shift. (paperwork, vehicle pre-trip inspections, maintenance, or having coffee breaks and lunches by the company phone to still take calls... etc) The fastest growing business segments right now are the "temp" agencies. Just another way to have disposable employees available. Very flexible for the company but no security or future for the employees. I always get nervous when any boss types start throwing that flex word around because it almost always means some crappy deal is in the works for the employees. I also notice that flexibility goes only one way. The company has it's policies and rules written in stone, with no possible means of exercising flexibility on their own part. It seems the corporate world is permitted to be like a rock while the workforce must be made even more pliable. |
StormKing Send message Joined: 6 Nov 00 Posts: 456 Credit: 2,887,579 RAC: 0 |
What does your interpretation of flexible include? I interoperate it as the ability of a company to move with the market and to react to an ever changing business climate. A company that cannot be flexible is doomed to fail, just as the big three are going down like a lead balloon. (poor management decisions are mostly to blame) It is true that in the process many employees are "screwed". |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24913 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
The fastest growing business segments right now are the "temp" agencies. It's only now you're getting around to this? Because of the unions diehardness in their policies, the UK is now well & truly stuffed! "Temp" agencies abound & should you visit here, you will find that many employ immigrants on cheap hourly rates, this in turn destroys any chance a native has of securing a decent job. With National & Local Taxes constantly rising & wages not keeping in touch, it's going to get a lot worse, worldwide.............WWIII anyone? To get a clearer picture of the situation, just take a look at Fritz Lang's 1926 film "Metropolis" - That says it all!!! |
RichaG Send message Joined: 20 May 99 Posts: 1690 Credit: 19,287,294 RAC: 36 |
What does your interpretation of flexible include? Unions have a contract that cannot be changed. In a recession all prices go down for goods and services, but union labor costs are fixed at the rate for a booming economy. Most companies can't pay this high wage cost and benefits, and they normally would go out of business. Unions should see that forcing a high fixed cost on the company is not job security. Unions should also make adjustments so they can keep their jobs. If they force the CEOs out of the auto comapnies, they should also get rid of the union bosses. |
Blurf Send message Joined: 2 Sep 06 Posts: 8964 Credit: 12,678,685 RAC: 0 |
Unions have a contract that cannot be changed. Not true....they can be re-negotiated |
Labbie Send message Joined: 19 Jun 06 Posts: 4083 Credit: 5,930,102 RAC: 0 |
Unions have a contract that cannot be changed. But only if both parties agree to renegotiation. And the UAW hasn't seemed too anxious to do that so far. And the courts can order it, but that is a last resort. Calm Chaos Forum...Join Calm Chaos Now |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
From the Los Angeles Times OK if its the unions fault that cars dont sell then explain how the japanese vehicles made here and abroad still cost just as much as the American competition. The answer is...Profit. Also Japanese businesses dont pay their executives more than 10 -15X the average workers wages. I'd think if that applied to American automakers the unions would be so very happy making several hundred thousand dollars a year. Reality check time here. American executives across the board in virtually every business make vastly more(100X or more) than the average worker. This is a poor business model. it robs the workers and the share holders. Remember one thing. The guys making the product should be well compensated because... well they make the damn stuff you are trying to market. poorly paid people tend to not perform well at their job In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24913 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Well stated. Include UK executives as well - as far as I'm concerned these T***'s are nothing but parasites. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51478 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Oh, I agree there..... Just because I have stated my case against the unions, do not think that I have any compassion for the execs and their insane salaries either.... But I still hold that the root cause of the current problems with the big 3 and their current financial status and inability to compete lies squarely on the shoulders of the UAW and what they have forced all of us to pay them in wages and benefits over the years, starting years ago when they had little or no competition to reign them in. "Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once." |
StormKing Send message Joined: 6 Nov 00 Posts: 456 Credit: 2,887,579 RAC: 0 |
Slightly ot, but still a good quote: "Time and money spent in helping men do more for themselves is far better than mere giving." --Ford Motor Company founder Henry Ford (1863-1947) Jay Leno: What a difference a couple of weeks makes. Remember last month, the three auto company heads flew to Washington in private jets looking for their bailout? Remember they own the private jets? Well, this time, the three CEOs drove in their own hybrid cars; 520 miles they drove in their own hybrid cars. See, you know what I think the government should have done here? Make it like "The Amazing Race." You drop these guys off, no money, no transportation, give them some tools, they have to build a car. First one to Washington, they get the bailout. |
jason_gee Send message Joined: 24 Nov 06 Posts: 7489 Credit: 91,093,184 RAC: 0 |
A little history reading on Henry Ford during a study I did for school, revealed that offering double normal wage reduced costs for the business, via a reduction in staff turnover & accidents, and resulted in acquisition of the best available workforce from across the country, along with the invention of corporate family welfare and schooling. If modern business practice were to follow this logical cost reduction method, I see no reason for the existence of unions whatsoever. "Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24913 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
A little history reading on Henry Ford during a study I did for school, revealed that offering double normal wage reduced costs for the business, via a reduction in staff turnover & accidents, and resulted in acquisition of the best available workforce from across the country, along with the invention of corporate family welfare and schooling. Fantastic statement!!!!!!!!!!! Brings to mind what happened to London Underground back in the 70's................... Ken Livingston, at that time, head of the GLC(Greater London council) came up with a brilliant idea - after peak hour travel was over, allow commuters to travel for £0.50p for one zone. As a LU trainman, I personally saw the massive increase of commuters using the system throughout the day, whereas before, after the peak hour rush, the trains were practically empty. Unfortunately, this did not last long as the fatcat bankers & lawyers forced him to back down through the courts. then as now, greed showed it's slimy head........& a**** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Aristoteles Doukas Send message Joined: 11 Apr 08 Posts: 1091 Credit: 2,140,913 RAC: 0 |
was it union fault, no, i didn´t think so |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24913 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
was it union fault, no, i didn´t think so Yes it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was an ASLEF steward for my depot & the majority of our members wanted this to remain. my reasoning was that with increased revenue, our wage claims every year could benefit. On taking this further up the union line, it was knocked down as not in the union's interest!!!! says who? WE WERE THE B***** UNION!!!!!! FATCATS,LAWYERS,BANKERS,UNION HEADS,CORRUPT POLITIANS & look at the state of the world's economy at this moment in time.................THE WORKER's FAULT MAYBE? |
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