Have never had any problems with lost work then upgrading the core client, as long as it's the same major version. Of course, a couple of the v2-betas wasn't usable, but still no lost work or need to re-attach.

The only reason can guess of a screw-up is if you didn't stop the previous version before installing the new, or you installed to another directory...

> In what can only be called a ridiculous oversight by the magnificent dev team,
> upgrading BOINC to 4.09 means that all half finished units have been lost as i
> am required to reattach to all my projects. This is also a tedious task as i
> have to go hunting around for projects ID's and such.
>
> Surely when it a simple upgrade proceedure the projects (and the current
> workunits) details can be stored on my PC and picked up again after the
> upgrade has been completed? Wouldn't thake make beter sense? It'd sure make
> life easier for me. And i'm sure ClimatePrediction won't be too happy that
> they are getting plenty of info from the first half of their workunits but
> nothing from the last half.
>
> Just my thoughts post BOINC upgrade.
>
>
It should not be losing your current workload when you upgrade. You should also not need to reattach after the upgrade.

You can just install on top of the old version. Even when you uninstall first it normally leaves the data files behind so that BOINC can pick up where it left off. The only time I have lost work due to an upgrade is at major version changes. The only times I have had to reattach is when there was some problem and I had to clean out the directory.

John Keck -- BOINCing since 2002/12/08 --

>The only reason can guess of a screw-up is if you didn't stop the previous >version before installing the new, or you installed to another directory...

That'd be it. My bad.

> It should not be losing your current workload when you upgrade. You should
> also not need to reattach after the upgrade.
>
> You can just install on top of the old version.

With all due respect to the BOINC dev team, should this not be spelled out plainly right on the "Download BOINC Software" page? For example:
"If you are currently running BOINC ver. 4.xx simply exit BOINC and install this update over top of your existing version".

Just a thought for the majority of us who just want to crunch.

Thanks!

> upgrading BOINC to 4.09 means that all half finished units have been lost as i
> am required to reattach to all my projects. This is also a tedious task as i
> have to go hunting around for projects ID's and such.
>

Might I suggest you create a folder and put you project ID's and such in it so your hunting days will be over.

:^))




Teamless???
Drop by ours and have a look;
http://www.setisynergy.com
Also checkout;
http://www.setisynergy

Looks as if s@h 4.05 is not downloading yet possibly because the Splitter is not running* and therefore we're not receiving any WU's at all, let alone ones that require the upgraded version.

*See 'server status' page - happy hunting to those who haven't tracked it down yet ; )

Couldn't agree more with several previous comments that clear instructions on what we should do, when we should do it, and (oh hell, go for it!) maybe even why we should do it, would be time very well spent.

Without decent guidance the SETI crunchers will keep on being frustrated, some will abandon the project, others will bombard the servers with 'update', 'update' until their fingers bleed in the hope of enticing a WU to come tiptoeing toward their starving pc. Others will spend hours fruitlessly searching these boards for a clue as to what's going on. Some of the info posted is spot on, other times it's well meant but way off track. Sometimes the content is just from another planet - now there's a thought!!!

I'm not asking for a full-blown, official, multi-volume User Guide; though hats off to Paul D. Buck for his fantastic efforts - especially as he is a volunteer, SETI-user just like us, only better informed and much more patient and civilised!

All we need is simple short answers to the questions that keep arising on these boards. I know a couple of the guys at SETI do post responses to queries sometimes, but even then it has to be hunted down in the depths of a weeks-old thread. The front page should address, or at least link to, topical key issues. Anyone at SETI scanning these boards can quickly see what's uppermost in our minds and quickly get the answers and post a helpful message. Any Helpdesk person will tell you that the vast majority of calls are easily resolved, and are extremely repetitious - cut out the majority of this traffic by a timely on-screen message and the servers, and the techies, can carry on doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Just a thought - apologies if it's a bit rambling, it's getting late!

Finally, to the guys at SETI: keep up the hard work it IS appreciated, but help us to help you by keeping us informed.

> Looks as if s@h 4.05 is not downloading yet possibly because the Splitter is
> not running* and therefore we're not receiving any WU's at all, let alone ones
> that require the upgraded version.

The splitters aren't running because there is enough work.

All of the work units I have currently are "assigned" to 4.03. When they're done (for my slow machine, sometime tomorrow) BOINC will download and install 4.05 along with the new work units, and assign the new work to the new SETI client.

> ya'll are getting the seti@home science app confused with the BOINC core
> client. The current BOINC core client version is 4.09. It was at 4.05 until
> a couple weeks ago. This software will NOT update itself. The seti@home
> science app just switched from 4.03 to 4.05. This WILL auto-update itself as
> soon as you get a new work unit that requires the 4.05 client.
>

> ---------------------------------------
> - A member of The Knights Who Say
> NI!
> Possibly the best stats site in the universe:
> http://boinc-kwsn.no-ip.info
>
The confusion about what was being updated was mine. Until a week or so ago, 4.05 was the latest version of the BOINC Core Client (now 4.09, and soon, I believe to be 4.11). And 4.03 was the latest version of the S@H project application. I looked at my fastest machine which had recently downloaded a 4.03 S@H WU, and I assumed that this was the latest version out, and therefore I assumed that the discussion was about a BOINC CC upgrade rather than a S@H project application upgrade.

OK here goes as I understand this process is as follows
When a work unit is made it is assign to a application version which will stay with that wu.

I have received setiathome wu with version 4.05, then I received more wu with version 4.03. They may be recycle wu, reassign because 2 or three results were not received for that wu.

Note There is a Boinc manager version 4.50 for Linux from LHC@home alpha test user: Select your computer type:

Computer type
click to download
Version Release Date
Linux/x86 4.50 2004-09-13
windows/x86 4.09 2004-09-19 New!


Fred BOINC Alpha & BOINC Beta Tester

> All we need is simple short answers to the questions that keep arising on
> these boards. I know a couple of the guys at SETI do post responses to queries
> sometimes, but even then it has to be hunted down in the depths of a weeks-old
> thread. The front page should address, or at least link to, topical key
> issues. Anyone at SETI scanning these boards can quickly see what's uppermost
> in our minds and quickly get the answers and post a helpful message. Any
> Helpdesk person will tell you that the vast majority of calls are easily
> resolved, and are extremely repetitious - cut out the majority of this traffic
> by a timely on-screen message and the servers, and the techies, can carry on
> doing what they're supposed to be doing.
>
> Just a thought - apologies if it's a bit rambling, it's getting late!
>
> Finally, to the guys at SETI: keep up the hard work it IS appreciated, but
> help us to help you by keeping us informed.

Maybe I need to add more to the FAQ ... can you help me out?

can I ask you all to give me the questions that you wish had an answer? Like:

Where can I find the status of the project servers?
If I press "Update" a lot what does it do?

Now, I need 100 more ... I know I have been remiss in adding to the FAQ but I need help for my imagination ... I have been heads down trying to finish the Web Site Owner's Manual but that may not be the best place right now ... I know I grabbed Papa's example and added one question to open source ... but maybe, just maybe I need more there ...

I was also thinking a new topic/chapter is needed in the BOINC Owner's Manual for common problems and solutions...

Anyway, I need the questions and then I can write answers ...

One piece of good news is that I am down to only about 150 broken links, and up to 298 pages of material... like the nw chapters on how to do the screen savers and how to emulate the old SETI@Home display even to the colors of the frequence-power-time graph ... :)
<p>
For BOINC Documentation: Click Me!

Finally got 4.05 downloaded, by the looks of it this happened when enough of my 'old' WU's had been uploaded to trigger the download of some more. What was confusing was the front-page news that 4.05 would be downloaded apparently whenever the Servers were contacted, but this turned out not to be the case. Updating for instance provoked a response from the server, uploaded results did too, but still no sign of 4.05 for quite some time. This is a good example of why I was asking for clearer, sometimes more detailed instructions.

I see there's a few 'ways to make SETI better' threads appearing: keep reading Paul D. Buck, and then get cracking!!! I do find it odd that a project of the scale of SETI relies on an enthusiastic user to produce meaningful documentation for its millions of users!

I'm not having a go at the team at SETI who are obviously hard at work (as ever) - but a few extra hands seem to be required. Whilst there's an election coming up in the USA perhaps now's a good time to ask for a bit more funding ;)

Happy crunching one and all.

> I see there's a few 'ways to make SETI better' threads appearing: keep reading
> Paul D. Buck, and then get cracking!!! I do find it odd that a project of the
> scale of SETI relies on an enthusiastic user to produce meaningful
> documentation for its millions of users!

Actually it makes perfect sense ...

BOINC is an open source project, and though I am disappointed that they have not thought through the community issues well, each and every participant gets to choose to do the part they are most fitted for.

So, there is a group of developers some paid by the projects, some volunteer. Others do the alpha testing and feedback to the developers.

There is another group that is looking at the source for the SETI@Home science application and they are looking to make a version, or versions, that take the best advantage of the extended instruction sets and will therefore run faster with no loss of accuracy (some optimizations gain speed by sacrificing accuracy).

I can't do C, C++ or C# (Heck I have trouble with Javascript) so, I do documentation. And if I do say so myself, I do that pretty well... :)

Janus, and others do statistic web sites ...

And others do add on software ...

So, we do have a community that contributes to BOINC as best we can...

And just to keep some perspective on my effort, I spend 8 - 12 hours a day working (on the days I can) and I can barely keep up... now which would you have, that full time developer (or two) writing documentation, or writing code?

<p>
For BOINC Documentation: Click Me!

TUTORIAL ON VERSION NUMBERS, CLIENTS AND SUCH</B>

[b]Core Client (CC) - This is what you see on the screen when you start BOINC. People refer to it as the GUI. The currently released version is v4.09. Old release version, v4.05.

SETI Client (SC) - This is the application that does the actual work on work units (WU). The currently released version is v4.05 (not to be confused with v4.05 CC) This version will only work with v4.09 CC. Old release version, v4.03. (v4.03 SC will work with v4.09 CC.)

To ugrade to the new version of the SC v4.05, you must first finish the WUs you have currently. You need to upgrade to v4.09 CC before getting v4.05 SC. This can be done before finishing your WUs processed with v4.03 SC. When those WUs are finished, uploaded and hopefully credited, v4.09 CC will automatically download v4.05 SC when it gets your new batch of WUs. That's all there is to it.

When upgrading to v4.09 CC, there is no Detach/Attach needed, resetting of projects is not needed. Resetting should only be used when upgrading to a major version of the CC, such as moving from v4.09 to v5.xx. Detach/Attach is used for stopping/starting a project. v4.09 CC will pick up where v4.05 CC left off. I just upgraded to v4.09 myself, this weekend, without incedent. Everything went smoothly.

I hope this helps to eliviate any confusion with version numbers and clients and such. If anyone spots any mistakes I may have made, please feel free to fix them. But, I do not believe I have made any.

L8R....

---




Rick A. - BOINCing right along now.... It can only get better!

"There is no fate except that which we create for ourselves."

Live Long and Prosper....

> [b]TUTORIAL ON VERSION NUMBERS, CLIENTS AND SUCH</B>
> Resetting should only be used when upgrading to a
> major version of the CC, such as moving from v4.09 to v5.xx.

One should not have to do a reset even when ungrading to a new Major Version.

Just stop Boinc then install the new Boinc over top of the old one.
Fred BOINC Alpha & BOINC Beta Tester

> > TUTORIAL ON VERSION NUMBERS, CLIENTS AND SUCH</B>
> > Resetting should only be used when upgrading to a
> > major version of the CC, such as moving from v4.09 to v5.xx.
>
> One should not have to do a reset even when ungrading to a new Major Version.
>
> Just stop Boinc then install the new Boinc over top of the old one.
> Fred BOINC Alpha & BOINC Beta Tester
>
>

Why, then, were we [b]instructed to reset our project(s) when we moved from v3.20 to v4.05 CC?

EDIT: Maybe I was partly wrong. :-/ I do remember having to do a manual reset when upgrading to 4.05 CC. Here's the news post about it:

August 27, 2004
We are currently experiencing a hardware issue with our scheduling server, we expect this issue to be resolved within the hour. The upgrade to 4.x will start around 11am PDT and will take roughly an hour. Anybody who has any remaining results to report should get them in before the upgrade. After the upgrade you'll need the 4.x clients to report new results, and upgrading to the 4.x client will reset the project on your machine. Roughly 100,000 results are queued up and ready to be sent out after the upgrade, plus the three splitters will be up and running producing work as quickly as possible.

I highlighted the statement above which through me off. I did, however, have to manually reset the project because the install may have hicuped.

L8R....

---




Rick A. - BOINCing right along now.... It can only get better!

"There is no fate except that which we create for ourselves."

Live Long and Prosper....

That reset was because of the scheduling server problems.
As I remember my upgrade reset automaticly.
The scheduling server lost the data of who had what wu, results would not be given any credits.
The reset would wipe out all the wu's that you have for that project, which would make credits for others with the same wu delayed past the deadline.
When not enought results turn in to verify the results by the deadline, the wu would be reschedule to send out.
At least another 14 days or so.
Fred BOINC Alpha & BOINC Beta Tester

> That reset was because of the scheduling server problems.
> As I remember my upgrade reset automaticly.
> The scheduling server lost the data of who had what wu, results would not be
> given any credits.
> The reset would wipe out all the wu's that you have for that project, which
> would make credits for others with the same wu delayed past the deadline.
> When not enought results turn in to verify the results by the deadline, the wu
> would be reschedule to send out.
> At least another 14 days or so.
> Fred BOINC Alpha & BOINC Beta Tester
>
>

I stand corrected, sir. :-) Maybe I should change the wording in my little tutorial to exclude the part about major upgrades. It's just that I read in oh so many posts here that reset was only used when going to a major upgrade. I guess those posts were wrong or I was misunderstanding them. :-/

L8R....

---




Rick A. - BOINCing right along now.... It can only get better!

"There is no fate except that which we create for ourselves."

Live Long and Prosper....

>I stand corrected, sir. :-) Maybe I should change the wording in my little
>tutorial to exclude the part about major upgrades. It's just that I read in
>oh so many posts here that reset was only used when going to a major upgrade.
>I guess those posts were wrong or I was misunderstanding them. :-/

A reset is done automatically when the client detects a different major version. So it is done at any major version change, but there is no user activity needed.

John Keck -- BOINCing since 2002/12/08 --