I would like to gather some info on people who use laptops for BOINC projects, like SETI. I for one ran SETI on a P3 850 Mhz for a month, for about 15 hours a day (no troubles at all). Recently, that laptop met with some computer "techs" and has now gone to byte heaven. I have aquired a new one (P4 1.8 Ghz), that I now use to run SETI.

Here are the important stats.

* Laptop sits on a cooler pad.
* A program (like speedfan) is installed to keep the temperatures around 58-65 Celcius.
* Runs only on AC (no battery plugged in).
* Room is airconditioned.
* I never run off battery (and I don't care for battery life as I'm never mobile).

However, those noobs at the computer store got really upset that I ran my laptop of AC all day and that it was sitting at 100% CPU for 10 hours straight. They claim the AC draws to much power (something about the jack that plugs into the laptop) and why the heck would I need to run my laptop that long anyway...yak yak yak. Yes, nuclear theorists don't need to run any code - my other use for the laptop.

One of my friends has also claimed that machine failure is related to the amount of use it goes through. It follows the Poisson distribution (~ decaying exponential). This seems a bit more reasonably, but I figure if it works for x days, it will work for x + 1 days just fine; i.e life expectancy should be the same for laptops that do nothing and that do something provided you don't abuse it - like moisture etc.

Any opinions / anectodes / advise ? It's much appreciated.

-My main laptop has been running Seti for two years except when its on battery power
-Same for my university issued laptop for the last year.
-I've had uptimes as long as 50 days on them, trying to beat that number.
-Both of my laptops are on coolers

I treat them the same way as I would for a desktop system except that I'm more careful about providing adequate cooling to the laptops. What I consider the #1 cause of damage damage to a laptop is improper handling when moving it, my main laptop is slightly damaged from hauling it a lot but otherwise operating just fine.

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i run laptop 24/7, cpu usage 98%, it would be 100%, but what´s the difference,
no extra coolers except it sits on two one cm x one cm high stick, so it don´t
touch the table cloth and thus keeps the vent in bottom open. first month it run on one core cause i did not notice that in vista that is automatic option until you chance that. and i did not know about boinc anything.

Hi, I run Boinc on my Toshiba laptop. Except for when I actually take it on the road it is on 24/7. It's been on the road mabey 45 days in the last 2 years. It has a Core2 T5500 and also like yours sits on a cooler. I've had no problem with heat. My prior laptop also ran for about 3 years 24/7 and never gave me any problems. I sold it when I upgraded.

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However, those noobs at the computer store got really upset that I ran my laptop of AC all day and that it was sitting at 100% CPU for 10 hours straight. They claim the AC draws to much power (something about the jack that plugs into the laptop) and why the heck would I need to run my laptop that long anyway...yak yak yak. Yes, nuclear theorists don't need to run any code - my other use for the laptop.

Noobs indeed. Watts are watts.

The single concern I'd have is heat. Some laptops have very good cooling, and others not so much.

I'd do the same thing on my laptop that I do on my desktop machine:

Get some temperature monitoring software, something that can fire off an application at a specific temperature.

Consult the processor data sheets, and choose a temperature that seems reasonable, with a nice margin, maybe 2/3rds from idle to max.

Have it run boinccmd.exe --set_run_mode never 120

That way, if it does get a little warm, processing will stop for 2 minutes and the processor will cool down quickly.

I agree with you on your friend's statement: running the idle loop is still work. It is probably less work, but I doubt that it would affect the CPU that much.

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Two laptops running BOINC 24/7 (except when shut off to carry to another site). Running for over 2 years (for the newest one). No problems at all. One IBM T42 and once Gateway something or other. Go forth and do!

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However, those noobs at the computer store got really upset that I ran my laptop of AC all day and that it was sitting at 100% CPU for 10 hours straight. They claim the AC draws to much power (something about the jack that plugs into the laptop) and why the heck would I need to run my laptop that long anyway...yak yak yak. Yes, nuclear theorists don't need to run any code - my other use for the laptop.

Noobs indeed. Watts are watts.

The single concern I'd have is heat. Some laptops have very good cooling, and others not so much.

I'd do the same thing on my laptop that I do on my desktop machine:

Get some temperature monitoring software, something that can fire off an application at a specific temperature.

Consult the processor data sheets, and choose a temperature that seems reasonable, with a nice margin, maybe 2/3rds from idle to max.

Have it run boinccmd.exe --set_run_mode never 120

That way, if it does get a little warm, processing will stop for 2 minutes and the processor will cool down quickly.

I agree with you on your friend's statement: running the idle loop is still work. It is probably less work, but I doubt that it would affect the CPU that much.

I have a Toshiba lap-top running cpu temps of around 65 with a cooling pad. Not sure the pad is very effective. I guess it runs at around 68 without it- so a degree or two decrease at the most. . . I see a lot of programs out there. Is there one that would do what you suggest that you, or anyone else for that matter- have had success with?

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Yeah. Try Speedfan or motherboard monitor. Those programs down have support for Dell Latitudes - use i8kfangui (google it) for those laptops. Also, I figure most laptops these days have got temperature well under control, even at 100% CPU.

However, those noobs at the computer store got really upset that I ran my laptop of AC all day and that it was sitting at 100% CPU for 10 hours straight. They claim the AC draws to much power (something about the jack that plugs into the laptop) and why the heck would I need to run my laptop that long anyway...yak yak yak. Yes, nuclear theorists don't need to run any code - my other use for the laptop.

Noobs indeed. Watts are watts.

The single concern I'd have is heat. Some laptops have very good cooling, and others not so much.

I'd do the same thing on my laptop that I do on my desktop machine:

Get some temperature monitoring software, something that can fire off an application at a specific temperature.

Consult the processor data sheets, and choose a temperature that seems reasonable, with a nice margin, maybe 2/3rds from idle to max.

Have it run boinccmd.exe --set_run_mode never 120

That way, if it does get a little warm, processing will stop for 2 minutes and the processor will cool down quickly.

I agree with you on your friend's statement: running the idle loop is still work. It is probably less work, but I doubt that it would affect the CPU that much.

I have a Toshiba lap-top running cpu temps of around 65 with a cooling pad. Not sure the pad is very effective. I guess it runs at around 68 without it- so a degree or two decrease at the most. . . I see a lot of programs out there. Is there one that would do what you suggest that you, or anyone else for that matter- have had success with?

If your laptop fails due to running Seti, then there was something wrong with it to start with.

Even though the Seti software runs the CPU at 100% it's not actually using anything like the TDP (Total Design Power). Now a machine has to be designed to run at TDP, just in case, but it's not allways executing those worst case operations. So the average power use (heat) is less.

Of course if the heat sink is blocked internally with fluff, or the cooling vents blocked by carpet, then things could get a bit toasty and cause problems.

A cooling pad or a couple of blocks to ensure good airflow under the unit can do no harm of course.

But if you are worried, then just turn down the CPU usaage from 100% to 75% or so.

Ian

first i was concerned about the cpu uasage and put it to use 60% of time but then it started to restart wu´s so i chance the preferences to 98% of time, and presto, no problems anymore.
( except the servers has been down lately too often)

first i was concerned about the cpu uasage and put it to use 60% of time but then it started to restart wu´s so i chance the preferences to 98% of time, and presto, no problems anymore.
( except the servers has been down lately too often)

I don't think there is a difference between 98% and 100%.

If it's restarting, that probably means that something (antivirus?) is messing with file access.

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Hi, I run Boinc on my Toshiba laptop. Except for when I actually take it on the road it is on 24/7. It's been on the road mabey 45 days in the last 2 years. It has a Core2 T5500 and also like yours sits on a cooler. I've had no problem with heat. My prior laptop also ran for about 3 years 24/7 and never gave me any problems. I sold it when I upgraded.

same processor, cool

If your laptop fails due to running Seti, then there was something wrong with it to start with.

Even though the Seti software runs the CPU at 100% it's not actually using anything like the TDP (Total Design Power). Now a machine has to be designed to run at TDP, just in case, but it's not allways executing those worst case operations. So the average power use (heat) is less.

Of course if the heat sink is blocked internally with fluff, or the cooling vents blocked by carpet, then things could get a bit toasty and cause problems.

A cooling pad or a couple of blocks to ensure good airflow under the unit can do no harm of course.

But if you are worried, then just turn down the CPU usaage from 100% to 75% or so.

Ian

The TDP rating is the amount of heat that the thermal control should be able to handle. A competently designed laptop should deal with that and not overheat.

SETI will likely push the system as close to max as possible.

That's why I suggested a good monitoring program and the BOINC command to shut down for a couple of minutes if things get too hot.

Shouldn't ever be necessary, but it's a good safety feature.

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I have always ran seti on my laptops since day 1. 100% unless on battery.
I just keep the lid open to keep it cooler.
Not recommended if you want to use it ON your "lap" b/c it will get toasty.
:)

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SETI will likely push the system as close to max as possible.

Actually from my testing, although SETI runs the CPU at 100% it doesn't push the machine to anywhere near the TDP.

For example a T2330 laptop I have here right now has a CPU TDP of 35w, but the whole laptop draws 38w from the wall while crunching. It gets warm, but not so you would worry, and the CPU must be dissapating a lot less than 35w. Worst case would be running some TDP torture test program, but even then it should still run, but it might be hot.

Likewise my Q6600 has a TDP of ~90w, but the whole box draws 80w crunching.

What it really means is that a laptop should be able to run at it's TDP, and SETI crunching should be a significant amount less. Hence as long as there is not some other problem, it runs fine.

Ian

I have always ran seti on my laptops since day 1. 100% unless on battery.
I just keep the lid open to keep it cooler.
Not recommended if you want to use it ON your "lap" b/c it will get toasty.
:)

I don't currently use a laptop regularly, but do I remember this report from a few years ago.

I have Run SETI I on my 'oldy' laptop (I believe it's a PII 600MHz for around the year 2000) for one and a half year. The CPU fan ran into problems, it was sounding like jet taking off ;). It turned out to be the CPU-fan.. (this off course happened after the warranty was gone, but I managed to get the fan...)

My laptop is now only in use for browsing and some mail and typing out a letter. (a SETI II wu takes about 50 hours, so there is no gain there ;) anyway)
The risk/problem with laptops (or at least older ones..) is that everything is built 'light', especially moving parts as fans may get tricky when pushed to full load.

Therefore I'd recommend to set the CPU usage to a setting where the CPU fan is not (always) running..

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The SETI@Home Gauntlet 2012 april 16 - 30| info / chat | STATS

Yeah. Try Speedfan or motherboard monitor. Those programs down have support for Dell Latitudes - use i8kfangui (google it) for those laptops. Also, I figure most laptops these days have got temperature well under control, even at 100% CPU.

However, those noobs at the computer store got really upset that I ran my laptop of AC all day and that it was sitting at 100% CPU for 10 hours straight. They claim the AC draws to much power (something about the jack that plugs into the laptop) and why the heck would I need to run my laptop that long anyway...yak yak yak. Yes, nuclear theorists don't need to run any code - my other use for the laptop.

Noobs indeed. Watts are watts.

The single concern I'd have is heat. Some laptops have very good cooling, and others not so much.

I'd do the same thing on my laptop that I do on my desktop machine:

Get some temperature monitoring software, something that can fire off an application at a specific temperature.

Consult the processor data sheets, and choose a temperature that seems reasonable, with a nice margin, maybe 2/3rds from idle to max.

Have it run boinccmd.exe --set_run_mode never 120

That way, if it does get a little warm, processing will stop for 2 minutes and the processor will cool down quickly.

I agree with you on your friend's statement: running the idle loop is still work. It is probably less work, but I doubt that it would affect the CPU that much.

I have a Toshiba lap-top running cpu temps of around 65 with a cooling pad. Not sure the pad is very effective. I guess it runs at around 68 without it- so a degree or two decrease at the most. . . I see a lot of programs out there. Is there one that would do what you suggest that you, or anyone else for that matter- have had success with?

I tried both. It seems my computer is not supported for Motherboard Monitor. It is a Toshiba Satellite A-135- Not on the list. Oh well. It looked easier to use than Speedfan. But, speedfan at least works for me. Thanks.

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It seems my computer is not supported for Motherboard Monitor. It is a Toshiba Satellite A-135- Not on the list. Oh well. It looked easier to use than Speedfan. But, speedfan at least works for me. Thanks.

The T5500 in that host has Enhanced Intel Speedstep® Technology, so you might also consider undervolting. The standard CPU voltage is set to accommodate the worst chips which come off the assembly line, most will actually run full speed at lower voltage. My undervolted Dell D600 with a Pentium-M uses about 20% less power than before, that means 20% less heat produced.

It's unlikely the BIOS on a laptop will allow undervolting, but RMCLOCK or NHC may do so.

                                                                 Joe

For example a T2330 laptop I have here right now has a CPU TDP of 35w, but the whole laptop draws 38w from the wall while crunching. It gets warm, but not so you would worry, and the CPU must be dissapating a lot less than 35w. Worst case would be running some TDP torture test program, but even then it should still run, but it might be hot.

Likewise my Q6600 has a TDP of ~90w, but the whole box draws 80w crunching.

Remember Ian that TDP is an engineering value. Intel is telling designers who build systems "you will be safe if you can get rid of 35w of heat."

So, the Engineers at Intel look at rational designs, at the possible shortcomings (like blocked vents and dirty heatsinks), unusually high ambient temperatures and they "inflate" the values a bit.

In other words, a 35w TDP processor may never reach 30w even when fully stressed.

... and Intel won't be forced to warranty parts because some designer shaved the design to the minimum and it wasn't enough.

If the laptop designer stays "safe" and designs for 35w, then the laptop should easily run 24/7 at 100% load.

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