If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. - Thomas Jefferson

The Real Story of the Money... ;)

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

What if I "make" something. Like a ham and cheese sandwich. Is that creating or inventing?

What about Love?

What about Love?

That would include making out. But is the word "out" a noun?

What about Love?

That would include making out. But is the word "out" a noun?

I was referring to the concept and not specifically the physical act. Was/is love a "creation" of man? If you're religious, I'm sure the answer is obvious. But what about the other side of the equation and you don't believe in God, is love created in our minds? Is there a definitive answer or is it based in philosophy alone?

What if I "make" something. Like a ham and cheese sandwich. Is that creating or inventing?

I would imagine that "making" something out of two things that existed through natural creation (ham coming from an animal and cheese coming from milk and other relatively natural ingredients), that it wouldn't be "creation".

But, what if the meat is synthetic? What about cloned meat? Aren't those creations, or are they still using natural elements to "make" something?

What about Love?

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Apparently, someone didn't follow the link...

Create:
1. To bring into being; to form out of nothing; to cause to exist.
[1913 Webster]

An invention is not the same thing as a creation... ;)

(But that isn't what this thread is about. It's about usury.)

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

In the truest sense, money may very well be the only thing man has "created".

I think some of you are misunderstanding Jeffrey's point. I think he's trying to distinguish between "creation", "invention" and "production".

With production, you take two or more preexisting objects and produce a new object out of it. Most things would technically fall into this category.

With an invention, it is basically the first time a production object has come into being, but its still taking preexisting objects, such as filaments and electricity to make a light bulb.

With creation, it is making something out of literally no preexisting object. Regardless of what medium you use for money (paper, coin, bamboo sticks), we all accept that they have value for some reason or another, and we use them in trade. But the value is really non-existent. They only have this imagined value because it is agreed upon by all parties. If, by chance, you were to give this valued medium to someone who isn't aware of this agreement, they would not accept its value because it is something we made up. Like giving a $100 bill to an alien who has no knowledge of our trading system would only see it for what it is: an object.

We don't technically "create" babies (though we always say we do). We combine preexisting DNA from sperm and egg and "produce" an offspring. We don't "create" a building, we take materials and combine them to make a house, etc.

In the truest sense, money may very well be the only thing man has "created". But I still proffer the concept of "love". What if that same alien knew of no such concept (scary, I know, but just as probable). Couldn't it be a creation of man alone?

I think some of you are misunderstanding Jeffrey's point. I think he's trying to distinguish between "creation", "invention" and "production".

With production, you take two or more preexisting objects and produce a new object out of it. Most things would technically fall into this category.

With an invention, it is basically the first time a production object has come into being, but its still taking preexisting objects, such as filaments and electricity to make a light bulb.

With creation, it is making something out of literally no preexisting object. Regardless of what medium you use for money (paper, coin, bamboo sticks), we all accept that they have value for some reason or another, and we use them in trade. But the value is really non-existent. They only have this imagined value because it is agreed upon by all parties. If, by chance, you were to give this valued medium to someone who isn't aware of this agreement, they would not accept its value because it is something we made up. Like giving a $100 bill to an alien who has no knowledge of our trading system would only see it for what it is: an object.

We don't technically "create" babies (though we always say we do). We combine preexisting DNA from sperm and egg and "produce" an offspring. We don't "create" a building, we take materials and combine them to make a house, etc.

In the truest sense, money may very well be the only thing man has "created". But I still proffer the concept of "love". What if that same alien knew of no such concept (scary, I know, but just as probable). Couldn't it be a creation of man alone?

Pah, it's so obvious that you're all missing it, indeed it's staring you right in the face as you read this! Like money, language is an agreed set of symbols by which we convey meaning that is not intrinsic to the symbols. "Dog" or "Dollar", we "created" both.

In the truest sense, money may very well be the only thing man has "created".

Oh there's one other thing, and its byproduct, that some would say.

Religious dogmata

I think some of you are misunderstanding Jeffrey's point.