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Message 763413 - Posted: 6 Jun 2008, 2:16:58 UTC

Discussion has started that AstroPluse will show up shortly in Seti Main. There is a group of Dedicated Testers that are working on it.

You might ask how soon? Without too much slippage you could see it before the end of the month.

What is happening?

Astropulse FAQ is the start of the discussion about what information you need.

I really like to think that as Seti Beta Tester stated.

Astropulse has a natural place on SETI@home, since both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse is SETI@home-applications looking for signals from ExtraTerrestrial (ET) Civilizations. While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.

Just like SETI Enhanced picks-up other signals than ET-signals, example Radars and other man-made signals, Astropulse will also detect other signals like Pulsars and Black holes. Since the probability of finding ET-signals is so low, the detection of these by-products of the SETI-search can give some useful Scientific results in other fields, while SETI still is at "ET not yet found".

You can look on it as both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse searches for a Gold-needle (ET) in a hay-stack. During the search for a Gold-needle, Astropulse ocassionally finds a Silver-needle (Pulsar or black hole), and instead of just throwing-away these Silver-needles as "not Gold" (not ET), the Silver-needles is kept and used for other things (non-ET-related).

See Future Plans for more info about Astropulse.


Astropulse is in a Beta Status (not ready for prime time). Recently with newer versions of that Astropulse Application that time required to complete a workunit was reduced to about a half depending on the OS and removal of some debug code.

* AstroPulse and MultiBeam can/will run side by side.
* Those that have optimized MutliBeam applications with have to make modfications to be able to do Astropulse. Those details have not been worked out.
* At a point in time the code for (which is now available) will be in the hands of various optimizers.
* As Astropulse is released Seti Beta Testers go back to work in the next version of Seti MultiBeam to account for progress.

You are welcome to go read about some of the things that have been seen and reported. You are welcome to ask questions.

Many people here are also Volunteer Testers.

Regards

Pappa

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 763977 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 7:25:37 UTC - in response to Message 763413.  

Discussion has started that AstroPluse will show up shortly in Seti Main. There is a group of Dedicated Testers that are working on it.
You might ask how soon? Without too much slippage you could see it before the end of the month.


Thank you, Sir.


While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.


Can Astropulse find extraterrestrial TV transmissions if they are strong enough? How many types of signals does AP find?

What will be the next version of SETI@home? Will it find more than the regular four types of signals?

Sorry for all these questions but I am just curious...

Henri.

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Message 764025 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 10:44:49 UTC - in response to Message 763977.  

Discussion has started that AstroPluse will show up shortly in Seti Main. There is a group of Dedicated Testers that are working on it.
You might ask how soon? Without too much slippage you could see it before the end of the month.


Thank you, Sir.


While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.


Can Astropulse find extraterrestrial TV transmissions if they are strong enough? How many types of signals does AP find?

What will be the next version of SETI@home? Will it find more than the regular four types of signals?

Sorry for all these questions but I am just curious...

Henri.



Since ASTROPULSE is looking wide-band signals, it isn't helpfull in finding ' ALIEN or other (Narrowband) signals.
As Pappa stated, it looks for 'other' phenomenia, like pulsar's, blackholes, etc.
Would take a gigantic amount off power to 'broadcast in W I D E - BAND , mode though, so that isn't an option.

Or am i terrible wrong, on my assumptions here???






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Message 764034 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 11:06:09 UTC - in response to Message 764025.  

Since ASTROPULSE is looking wide-band signals, it isn't helpfull in finding ' ALIEN or other (Narrowband) signals.
As Pappa stated, it looks for 'other' phenomenia, like pulsar's, blackholes, etc.
Would take a gigantic amount off power to 'broadcast in W I D E - BAND , mode though, so that isn't an option.

Or am i terrible wrong, on my assumptions here???


Mostly right I think. If I am thinking correctly about the only ET Astropulse would be able to detect is one in the process of destroying itself in a nuclear war. Of course that lacks the repeatablity to prove it.
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Message 764163 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 15:01:51 UTC - in response to Message 764034.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2008, 15:02:45 UTC

Mostly right I think. If I am thinking correctly about the only ET Astropulse would be able to detect is one in the process of destroying itself in a nuclear war. Of course that lacks the repeatablity to prove it.


Only very powerful events? Why?

How about Type III or Type IV civilizations?

Henri.

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Message 764205 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 16:08:12 UTC

If I understand correctly (probably not) there are two ways to transmit a signal, A narrowband signal that is more continuous in nature (like current SaH looks for) or a broadband pulse. These two methods would presumably be of similar total power, depending on the technology level of the transmitter, but the short duration compensates for the broad bandwidth power requirement, and gives a wider frequency field possibly more likely to be received/noticed without being obscured so easily by interference.

I think that's similar to 'spread spectrum' techniques described in this wiki article,

and (jokingly) it might be reasonable to assume an approaching invasion fleet might be using such a communications technique to mask its presence among background noise ;D

Jason

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Message 764210 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 16:15:17 UTC - in response to Message 763413.  

Discussion has started that AstroPluse will show up shortly in Seti Main. There is a group of Dedicated Testers that are working on it.

You might ask how soon? Without too much slippage you could see it before the end of the month.

What is happening?

Astropulse FAQ is the start of the discussion about what information you need.

I really like to think that as Seti Beta Tester stated.

Astropulse has a natural place on SETI@home, since both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse is SETI@home-applications looking for signals from ExtraTerrestrial (ET) Civilizations. While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.

Just like SETI Enhanced picks-up other signals than ET-signals, example Radars and other man-made signals, Astropulse will also detect other signals like Pulsars and Black holes. Since the probability of finding ET-signals is so low, the detection of these by-products of the SETI-search can give some useful Scientific results in other fields, while SETI still is at "ET not yet found".

You can look on it as both SETI Enhanced and Astropulse searches for a Gold-needle (ET) in a hay-stack. During the search for a Gold-needle, Astropulse ocassionally finds a Silver-needle (Pulsar or black hole), and instead of just throwing-away these Silver-needles as "not Gold" (not ET), the Silver-needles is kept and used for other things (non-ET-related).

See Future Plans for more info about Astropulse.


Astropulse is in a Beta Status (not ready for prime time). Recently with newer versions of that Astropulse Application that time required to complete a workunit was reduced to about a half depending on the OS and removal of some debug code.

* AstroPulse and MultiBeam can/will run side by side.
* Those that have optimized MutliBeam applications with have to make modfications to be able to do Astropulse. Those details have not been worked out.
* At a point in time the code for (which is now available) will be in the hands of various optimizers.
* As Astropulse is released Seti Beta Testers go back to work in the next version of Seti MultiBeam to account for progress.

You are welcome to go read about some of the things that have been seen and reported. You are welcome to ask questions.

Many people here are also Volunteer Testers.

Regards

Pappa

So will we have a choice or is Seti turning into Astropulse? Not really worried about finding Black holes as the latest findings are showing they are in the center of all Galaxies...
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Message 764212 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 16:15:48 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jun 2008, 16:17:05 UTC

Actually there is a bit more, Josh Von Korff (as I recall and not wanting to misquote) a Graduate Student picked up working on Astropulse. He has been the driving force to get Astropulse here.

As we saw the 1st Astropulse workunits it became clear that there were major changes.

Some of those changes were the length of the workunit itself (time) 13.42 seconds. Somewhat simplistically, it marches through time slices with different frequency dispersions to see if a pulse frequency was spread/warped out as it travelled through the universe. With each pass at various dispersions that data is folded onto itself or this is how the true frequency is determined. One of the last things is it now has the ability to detect a pulse as small as 0.4 microseconds (or smaller). Or it gives Searcher for ET a larger magnifying glass to work with.

For Henri because of the nature of Astorpulse it can define a pulse of .4 microseconds.
Theoretically a Type III power emanation could very well blank out the background noise of space (or at least mask it).

Way back when I and others were poking questions at Josh he came up with this explanation.

Astropulse Algorithms and Science

I had forgotten where I stashed the information.
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Message 764250 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 17:14:45 UTC

Thanks for the info.

Henri.

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Message 764304 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 18:26:21 UTC - in response to Message 764212.  

... Way back when I and others were poking questions at Josh he came up with this explanation.

Astropulse Algorithms and Science

An interesting comment in there is:

The amount of dispersion depends on the amount of ISM plasma between the Earth and the source of the pulse. The dispersion measure (DM) tells us how much plasma there is. DM is measured in "parsecs per centimeter cubed", or pc cm^-3

We've already seen the s@h data used to produce a hydrogen density map of the Milky Way. Will Astropulse permit a hydrogen plasma density map to be produced?... That should be interesting...

And who knows what else it might find...

Keep searchin',
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Message 764316 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 18:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 764210.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2008, 18:56:42 UTC

hiamps

At least initially you may get one, the other or both. Those that have optimized applications will "not" get Astropulse unless they modify the app_info.xml file. Before release Beta Testers will construct and test an app_info.xml for both, multibeam or astropulse or optimized variations (that is a bit of a long list).


So will we have a choice or is Seti turning into Astropulse? Not really worried about finding Black holes as the latest findings are showing they are in the center of all Galaxies...


And as Martin states there could be many interesting byproducts discovered.

Regards
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Message 764329 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 19:07:38 UTC - in response to Message 764316.  

hiamps

At least initially you may get one, the other or both. Those that have optimized applications will "not" get Astropulse unless they modify the app_info.xml file. Before release Beta Testers will construct and test an app_info.xml for both, multibeam or astropulse or optimized variations (that is a bit of a long list).


So will we have a choice or is Seti turning into Astropulse? Not really worried about finding Black holes as the latest findings are showing they are in the center of all Galaxies...


And as Martin states there could be many interesting byproducts discovered.

Regards

Not worried about the Apps. I was really hoping we would find some kind of proof there is someone out there. To me that would be the most important discovery for mankind. I believe that is the only thing that will ever bring Humans together, then we would all be Earthlings...
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Message 764464 - Posted: 7 Jun 2008, 23:26:20 UTC - in response to Message 764025.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2008, 23:28:49 UTC


While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.


Can Astropulse find extraterrestrial TV transmissions if they are strong enough? How many types of signals does AP find?

What will be the next version of SETI@home? Will it find more than the regular four types of signals?

Sorry for all these questions but I am just curious...

Henri.



Since ASTROPULSE is looking wide-band signals, it isn't helpfull in finding ' ALIEN or other (Narrowband) signals.
As Pappa stated, it looks for 'other' phenomenia, like pulsar's, blackholes, etc.
Would take a gigantic amount off power to 'broadcast in W I D E - BAND , mode though, so that isn't an option.



I can understand the scientific desire to do this project, but if it won't help us find ET, why would the SETI project even get involved? Wouldn't it be more directly related to "a new project" one could join such as Rosetta or Einstein? What am I missing?
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Message 764495 - Posted: 8 Jun 2008, 0:15:42 UTC - in response to Message 764464.  

Dennis

Astropulse does a more exacting search for ET (at a different level)... As I said it is getting "a larger magnifying glass" to look for the needle in the haystack. But then when you are able to magnify things you often discover "more."

An example that you could try. Take a sheet of copy/printer paper.
Fold it in half top to bottom (1 time),
rotate the folded parts 90 deg clockwise and fold top to bottom (2nd time),
rotate the folded parts 90 deg clockwise and fold top to bottom (3rd time),
rotate the folded parts 90 deg clockwise and fold top to bottom (4th time),
rotate the folded parts 90 deg clockwise and fold top to bottom (5th time),
rotate the folded parts 90 deg clockwise and fold top to bottom (6th time).
Now as you unfold the paper you can see that one little corner that is 1/64th of the whole sheet. That little tiny corner is efficiency of Seti Enhanced/MultiBeam looking for ET. If I consider the whole sheet of paper that is closer to the efficiency of Astropulse looking for ET. Actually the efficiency is predicted/calculated at around 100 times more efficient.
So with the various changes in Seti Boinc to Seti Enhanced to Seti Multibeam, each change has removed things that make it harder to find ET. Each time it has become more efficient. This takes time and people to test the next version. As Astropulse gets to Seti Main the Seti Beta Testers go back to testing the next Version of Seti MultiBeam.

So each program has its purpose, what I suspect is that Astropulse will end up suggesting areas for MultiBeam to look at for closer re observations. And/or drive further improvements in MultiBeam. Each of these increase the chances for Finding ET or the unwanted answer that ET does not exist.
I am still betting on finding ET.

I have to note, this is all predicated on Grants or Private Funding to keep Seti going until we have the answer.

Regards

Al


While SETI Enhanced looks for Narrow-bandwidth ET-signals, Astropulse will look for Wide-bandwidth ET-signals.


Can Astropulse find extraterrestrial TV transmissions if they are strong enough? How many types of signals does AP find?

What will be the next version of SETI@home? Will it find more than the regular four types of signals?

Sorry for all these questions but I am just curious...

Henri.



Since ASTROPULSE is looking wide-band signals, it isn't helpfull in finding ' ALIEN or other (Narrowband) signals.
As Pappa stated, it looks for 'other' phenomenia, like pulsar's, blackholes, etc.
Would take a gigantic amount off power to 'broadcast in W I D E - BAND , mode though, so that isn't an option.



I can understand the scientific desire to do this project, but if it won't help us find ET, why would the SETI project even get involved? Wouldn't it be more directly related to "a new project" one could join such as Rosetta or Einstein? What am I missing?


Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 765128 - Posted: 9 Jun 2008, 5:52:25 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jun 2008, 5:57:04 UTC

Just rebuilt a P4 2.8 and let it run Astropulse, first unit says it will take 185 hours...Wonder how much credit it will offer?

EDIT Looks like the other guy that did this one got 1,261.42 Not bad.
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Message 765155 - Posted: 9 Jun 2008, 7:08:36 UTC - in response to Message 765128.  

Just rebuilt a P4 2.8 and let it run Astropulse, first unit says it will take 185 hours...Wonder how much credit it will offer?

EDIT Looks like the other guy that did this one got 1,261.42 Not bad.

Check which version it was processed with. Older versions had lots of debug code in and were a lot slower.
At present with V4.33 I am claiming ~750.

Also DCF should decrease to ~0.4 so if yours is at default 1.000000 then expect processing time to be ~0.4 the initial predicted time.
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Message 765156 - Posted: 9 Jun 2008, 7:10:32 UTC - in response to Message 765155.  
Last modified: 9 Jun 2008, 7:11:41 UTC

Just rebuilt a P4 2.8 and let it run Astropulse, first unit says it will take 185 hours...Wonder how much credit it will offer?

EDIT Looks like the other guy that did this one got 1,261.42 Not bad.

Check which version it was processed with. Older versions had lots of debug code in and were a lot slower.
At present with V4.33 I am claiming ~750.

Also DCF should decrease to ~0.4 so if yours is at default 1.000000 then expect processing time to be ~0.4 the initial predicted time.

OK, I'll bite........I haven't done any beta work for a while, but I'll re-up and see what the Frozen Penny can do with a WU or two........

Sheesh, and just when my RAC was starting to recover from the kitties' Protein munching........
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Message 765158 - Posted: 9 Jun 2008, 7:13:21 UTC - in response to Message 765156.  
Last modified: 9 Jun 2008, 7:14:58 UTC

Just rebuilt a P4 2.8 and let it run Astropulse, first unit says it will take 185 hours...Wonder how much credit it will offer?

EDIT Looks like the other guy that did this one got 1,261.42 Not bad.

Check which version it was processed with. Older versions had lots of debug code in and were a lot slower.
At present with V4.33 I am claiming ~750.

Also DCF should decrease to ~0.4 so if yours is at default 1.000000 then expect processing time to be ~0.4 the initial predicted time.

OK, I'll bite........I haven't done any beta work for a while, but I'll re-up and see what the Frozen Penny can do with a WU or two........

Sheesh, and just when my RAC was starting to recover from the kitties' Protein munching........

On Q6600 @ 3GHz V4.33 takes 38+ hours. result ID 3932050
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Message 765159 - Posted: 9 Jun 2008, 7:15:40 UTC - in response to Message 765158.  


OK, I'll bite........I haven't done any beta work for a while, but I'll re-up and see what the Frozen Penny can do with a WU or two........

Sheesh, and just when my RAC was starting to recover from the kitties' Protein munching........

On Q6600 @ 3GHz V4.33 takes 38+ hours. result ID 3932050

The kitties are not afraid.........
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 765163 - Posted: 9 Jun 2008, 7:37:53 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jun 2008, 7:40:21 UTC

Astrokittie has launched from the Frozen Penny.....to meeeeeeeeeeow.....and beyond.

Showing a 44 hour time to landing......we shall see......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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