And yet, you or everyone who thinks like you do could just go in there and provide the products that Nestle does, safely, without any of this list of eeeevils.

You could just give them the formula, the water, whatever they need, and almost instantly put Nestle out of business there. You could do it as a non-profit corporation like Sesame Workshop or Paul Newman/Newman's Own.

Yet you don't. What are you waiting for?

That's a stupid arguement.

Nestle has been going since 1867.

Do you really expect an individual to be able to create a company with such power in a day on your whim?

I thought you understood bussiness and it's development?

A challenge:

Just for fun and to prove your point that poor people have choices why not switch off your water-main to your house (your piped tap water) and go see if you can find some other company to provide you with a new supply (that can supply ALL your normal needs) that does not use your original pipeline...


There is nothing like personal experience to prove what we say.

Switch off your water-main for a week and let us know how it works.

You up for the challenge?

Nestle cannot know better, only the people behind the actions can, likewise, Nestle cannot be sent to jail for any alleged crime, only the individuals behind the actions can.

Actually..because Nestle is a corporation the individuals are not liable and cannot be taken to court. In other words...no one is accountable for the crimes Nestle commits.

Nestle markets its baby milk products to poor countries knowing that 1 in 4 of the children that use it's product will die.

1 out of every 4 people that drink gasoline, or any other substance deemed harmful for human consumption, will probably die too.

Who is marketing gasoline as good for human consumption?

One could easily suggest that YOU should be doing the same with your income. Every little bit helps, right?

see my Oxfam post. We all can help in various ways.

That's absolutely false. In the first place, they are patients entering a medical facility of their own free will. Human beings have been giving birth for thousands and thousands of years without professional medical assistance, more so in the jungles and deserts of 3rd world countries than anywhere else!! In the second place, just like the patient had a choice in seeking medical help, they also have a choice when it comes to following the doctor's prescribed course of treatment. It takes several days for a woman to stop lactating, so the implication that they have no alternative after leaving said facility is just bogus.

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

2) Women cannot get a baby to breast feed once that baby has been bottle fed for even a short while. Even if her milk has not dried up..the establishment of breast feeding has been interfered with.

Gee, I wonder why they didn't mix it with contaminated water first??

If they were desperate enough they would have

Well that IS the appeal of baby formula...you don't have to breastfeed.

It is only an 'appeal' because of marketing telling us that it is an 'appeal'. In reality breast feeding is a far superior way of feeding your baby than formula.

No argument, but that doesn't make breast milk alternatives dangerous.

It does if they cannot safely make up the formula.

NOPE, you can eat that stuff straight out of the can without any adverse side affects. It's the water that's dangerous for human consumption in every single case.
[quote]
Well I'm not sure how FDA regulations apply to goods sold in foreign countries, but again, the term "selling" implies that the consumer had a choice.

Choice implies understanding of the choice they are making and full disclosure.

If you go to a store and by a bad product you will return it. I think you would be very surprised if you went back with your faulty goods and were told that you had a choice to buy it and you couldn't have your money back.

Hate to break the news to you, but money back guarantees are given at the discretion of the store owner or product manufacturer. You are not "entitled" to a refund simply because you are dissatisfied with your purchase. Furthermore, I would NOT be the least bit surprised at a store's refusal to give a refund on open baby formula

I agreed that Nestle's actions could easily be deemed unethical, but that does not constitute intent to do harm.

Knowingly continuing with an action that you are aware causes harm could be considered intent.

It's really sad that you know how to use a computer but seemingly don't know how to boil water.

Then let's hope that unlike those in poorer countries you actually have fuel to light the fire..and not only enough water to boil to drink, but enough to boil your bottles and teats in too..and also enough bottles and teats to use. (a formula fed baby will use 6 to 10 bottles a day. Each one has to be boiled for 10 minutes totally covered in water in order to sterilise it sufficiently for safe use..in the west your dishwasher will do the job and we will probably be able to easily afford 6 to 10 bottles. Aren't we lucky?)

Then let's hope that unlike those in poorer countries you actually have fuel to light the fire..and not only enough water to boil to drink, but enough to boil your bottles and teats in too..and also enough bottles and teats to use. (a formula fed baby will use 6 to 10 bottles a day. Each one has to be boiled for 10 minutes totally covered in water in order to sterilise it sufficiently for safe use..in the west your dishwasher will do the job and we will probably be able to easily afford 6 to 10 bottles. Aren't we lucky?)

And so the circle continues.

The people that run Nestle don't care what any of the hand-wringers think. The company isn't charged with any crimes because baby formula is safe and the cause of death is contaminants in unsafe water.

If you actually want to save them, the quickest and easiest method would be to sell them clean water, or decontamination paraphernalia at prices they can afford, just like Nestle does. Hell, give it away if you want. What are you waiting for? No one is stopping you. You could have been doing that since a few weeks after baby formula was introduced. Nestle would be thrilled--they'd sell more formula. You'd be thrilled--you'd actually save some babies.

But since no one that thinks like you do can actually be bothered to do the simplest solution, what now? More hand-wringing? Some more threads?

It's too bad those babies can't eat hand-wringing or threads to survive--they'd be the best fed babies on earth.

1) Nestle does not sell them anything at prices they can afford.

2) Sell them? Is everything a business opportunity to you? How about we find out why their water is so dirty in the first place..probably because some company like Nestle is dumping effluent in it. Wouldn't surprise me.

3) Most of these corporations have been charged with crimes..and they are fined..and they pay up because they make more money from the crime than they pay in fines. Hence this thread.

4) Oh..and to all you who live in Florida..look what Nestle is doing to your water supply. Nestle Paying $230 To Suck Millions Of Gallons Of Water From Florida Until 2018

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

...

Newman's Own has given away something like 250 million dollars. Where did he get that money? He EARNED it. He made a PROFIT selling people a good product at a price they could afford. And then gave all that profit away. Imagine that, a for-profit corporation, that is bound by law to act only in it's own self-interest, giving all it's profit away. Where are the endless lawsuits? I mean, that's why corporations under corporate law do everything, right?

There's nothing stopping anyone else from doing that. More power to them. I buy Newman's Own, I even tracked it down over here in the UK, so some of that profit was mine. Even that little bit is more than what many of the hand-wringers do.

...
Could it just be, that the reason no one does it, is because the economics of the situation don't work? Could it just be that no one provides clean water or the materials to do so because water is heavy and shipping it is expensive, and no one has developed a way to make water purification equipment for free, such that it could be given away for free? Could it just be that simple economics stands in the way, no matter how much people here want to deny that fact?

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=birth+dangerous&fr=fptb-msgr&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

SNIPs...

We are responsible for our actions as individuals but companies who have far more power and ability to know better are far more responsible.

Have you ever seen a company that was NOT made up of individuals?

The figure of speech you have utilized here is called a personification. Simply put, you have given human qualities to an inanimate object.


SNIP.

All I can tell you is that a company under British law is not a collection of individuals but is a legal entity / body in itself. This is why we use the terms company or corporation.

The activities of a corporation or company may well be the collective actions of all it's workers, directors, members but there is a very real and legal difference to the actions of individual people.

If you can not understand this concept just ask yourself if you as an individual person have the same power or control that your government does...

A challenge:

Just for fun and to prove your point that poor people have choices why not switch off your water-main to your house (your piped tap water) and go see if you can find some other company to provide you with a new supply (that can supply ALL your normal needs) that does not use your original pipeline...


There is nothing like personal experience to prove what we say.

Switch off your water-main for a week and let us know how it works.

You up for the challenge?


.

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=birth+dangerous&fr=fptb-msgr&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=birth+dangerous&fr=fptb-msgr&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Women's perception of postpartum problems

..and if you want to read some really fun stuff find out about vesicovaginal fistulae and ask yourself if you'd like to be a woman giving birth in developing countries.

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=birth+dangerous&fr=fptb-msgr&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Women's perception of postpartum problems

..and if you want to read some really fun stuff find out about vesicovaginal fistulae and ask yourself if you'd like to be a woman giving birth in developing countries.

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=birth+dangerous&fr=fptb-msgr&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Women's perception of postpartum problems

..and if you want to read some really fun stuff find out about vesicovaginal fistulae and ask yourself if you'd like to be a woman giving birth in developing countries.

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

Contraception is for many of them..and a lot of these women are in cultures where they can't deny their husbands their conjugal rights.

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

Hmmmmmmm...although I seldom argue here......I think your last statement might be just a tad bit off base.......

In many societies......the way women are treated is a bit different than more civilized societies.......and many times they are not always free to express their true will........I would retract those statements if I were you.........

1) Women have been dying through childbirth for thousands of years. Child birth is NOT safe.

Statically speaking, it is, otherwise the human population would be on the decline rather than increasing exponentially.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=birth+dangerous&fr=fptb-msgr&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Women's perception of postpartum problems

..and if you want to read some really fun stuff find out about vesicovaginal fistulae and ask yourself if you'd like to be a woman giving birth in developing countries.

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

Contraception is for many of them..and a lot of these women are in cultures where they can't deny their husbands their conjugal rights.

Sorry, but there's no such things as conjugal rights

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

Hmmmmmmm...although I seldom argue here......I think your last statement might be just a tad bit off base.......

In many societies......the way women are treated is a bit different than more civilized societies.......and many times they are not always free to express their true will........I would retract those statements if I were you.........

Sorry, rape is rape, and culture doesn't make it right.

Like mixing formula with contaminated water, the majority of those impregnated women became that way through their own free will...or do you deem sex beyond their control too?

lol

Hmmmmmmm...although I seldom argue here......I think your last statement might be just a tad bit off base.......

In many societies......the way women are treated is a bit different than more civilized societies.......and many times they are not always free to express their true will........I would retract those statements if I were you.........

Sorry, rape is rape, and culture doesn't make it right.

It's not right. But neither was your assumption that these women necessarily have a choice on how many children they bear.

Actually you've failed to show that they don't have a choice, and the implication that the majority of the pregnancies are against their will is on par with your propaganda about imprisonment in a Nazi concentration camp not being a desperate situation.