I just wonder what these babies would be eating if it wasn't baby formula mixed with dodgy water ...

If the baby is not drinking formula, it would be drinking breast milk, which is far healthier under most cirumstances.

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BOINC WIKI

I just wonder what these babies would be eating if it wasn't baby formula mixed with dodgy water ...

If the baby is not drinking formula, it would be drinking breast milk, which is far healthier under most cirumstances.

Unless of course the mother had been mislead into weaning her child onto formula..then she can't do anything else but feed the baby formula mixed with dodgy water.

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Reality Internet Personality

Sounds better to me than telling people they're to stupid to use western forms of health care and therefore will be denied the option all together.

I don't remember saying people were too stupid and I don't remember saying anything about Western Healthcare.

Not sure what you are trying to say here Brainsmashr.

Perhaps you would prefer "ignorant"?

While I'll concede the definition is quite different, it still accurately describes the true reason for the multiple deaths.

Now I realize you didn't explicitly state anything about Western health care, but your posts make it blatantly obvious that you don't think these people should have access to Nestle baby formula, and one would assume that also includes all powdered formulas produced by any manufacturer, correct? Since lack of sterile water and the ability to produce it for product mixing are the true culprits.

What I'm trying to say is the same thing Rush and I have been telling you since day 1. While Nestle may be guilty of unethical practices, that is a FAR cry from being malicious.

It becomes malicious when a company is made fully aware of the consequences of their actions..and the harm it is doing and then persists in it's actions.

The part you've failed to realize is that the actions of Nestle are NOT causing the harm. It's the PARENTS mixing the formula with dirty water who are causing the harm.

Let me give you another example:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said 43,300 people died in motor vehicle crashes in 2006 (I'm assuming this is just in the US). The number of deaths in crashes in which a driver had a blood alcohol level of at least 0.08, the legal limit, rose to 13,990 in 2006.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/26/washington/26highway.html

Why aren't you condemning automobile and alcohol manufacturers since they too produce a product, which when abused or utilized incorrectly, results in thousands of deaths every year??

Also..again I am not sure where you think I bought the healthcare into it. The formula is not a healthcare issue. It is not needed for health (as breast milk is better) and should not be sold as such.

Yeah, we don't "need" cough drops, cotton balls, or nose spray either, but they're still considered health care products.

So again. Why are you saying that i don't think they should have access to western healthcare? Nestle milk is not a part of western healthcare.

Well I don't know what to say here other than there really IS a reason baby formula is located on its own aisle with all the other products, like diapers and strained peas, specifically designed for the care of babies.

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I just wonder what these babies would be eating if it wasn't baby formula mixed with dodgy water ...

If the baby is not drinking formula, it would be drinking breast milk, which is far healthier under most cirumstances.

Unless of course the mother had been mislead into weaning her child onto formula..then she can't do anything else but feed the baby formula mixed with dodgy water.

Sorry, that is NOT one of the circumstances where it is healtier for the baby to use formula.

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BOINC WIKI

The part you've failed to realize is that the actions of Nestle are NOT causing the harm. It's the PARENTS mixing the formula with dirty water who are causing the harm.

Let me give you another example:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said 43,300 people died in motor vehicle crashes in 2006 (I'm assuming this is just in the US). The number of deaths in crashes in which a driver had a blood alcohol level of at least 0.08, the legal limit, rose to 13,990 in 2006.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/26/washington/26highway.html

Why aren't you condemning automobile and alcohol manufacturers since they too produce a product, which when abused or utilized incorrectly, results in thousands of deaths every year??

The difference is pushing a product into an area where it cannot be used correctly bacause of an environmental problem. There are some places where the drinking water is unsafe, and there is not enough fuel available to boil all of the water. There are places where one or more family members have to spend their entire day gathering fuel to cook the meals. Some of these places also have limited sanitation, and nasty drinking water. Baby formula in these areas cannot be made safe. Nestle has been pushing its products as a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas.

Alcholol and cars can both be used safely - just not together. Anybody in the US that has access to both has been warned many times that drinking and driving don't go together.

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BOINC WIKI

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt, or so they said... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The part you've failed to realize is that the actions of Nestle are NOT causing the harm. It's the PARENTS mixing the formula with dirty water who are causing the harm.

Let me give you another example:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said 43,300 people died in motor vehicle crashes in 2006 (I'm assuming this is just in the US). The number of deaths in crashes in which a driver had a blood alcohol level of at least 0.08, the legal limit, rose to 13,990 in 2006.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/26/washington/26highway.html

Why aren't you condemning automobile and alcohol manufacturers since they too produce a product, which when abused or utilized incorrectly, results in thousands of deaths every year??

The difference is pushing a product into an area where it cannot be used correctly bacause of an environmental problem. There are some places where the drinking water is unsafe, and there is not enough fuel available to boil all of the water. There are places where one or more family members have to spend their entire day gathering fuel to cook the meals. Some of these places also have limited sanitation, and nasty drinking water. Baby formula in these areas cannot be made safe. Nestle has been pushing its products as a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas.

Alcholol and cars can both be used safely - just not together. Anybody in the US that has access to both has been warned many times that drinking and driving don't go together.

Guess what? Automobiles can't be utilized safely everywhere because of environmental problems too...take the side of a mountain or the middle of a swamp for instance. Yet 4-wheel drives are still sold everyday in Colorado and Louisiana....under the guise of "all terrain" at that!

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I just wonder what these babies would be eating if it wasn't baby formula mixed with dodgy water ...

If the baby is not drinking formula, it would be drinking breast milk, which is far healthier under most cirumstances.

Unless of course the mother had been mislead into weaning her child onto formula..then she can't do anything else but feed the baby formula mixed with dodgy water.

What I had in mind when querying this, is that the third world countries in question are likely those also under pressure from HIV epidemic. Under these circumstances breast milk may not be an appropriate option in some of the most poverty stricken areas in particular. But then, as I'm not a doctor, or particularly well read on the transmission of the virus, I am unaware of whether babies are born with HIV, or acquire it through ingestion of mum's milk after birth. It was just a suspicion that not the full story is apparent.

Jason

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

http://www.babymilkaction.org/

gotta get one of their T-shirt & mugs ...

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

I just wonder what these babies would be eating if it wasn't baby formula mixed with dodgy water ...

If the baby is not drinking formula, it would be drinking breast milk, which is far healthier under most cirumstances.

Unless of course the mother had been mislead into weaning her child onto formula..then she can't do anything else but feed the baby formula mixed with dodgy water.

What I had in mind when querying this, is that the third world countries in question are likely those also under pressure from HIV epidemic. Under these circumstances breast milk may not be an appropriate option in some of the most poverty stricken areas in particular. But then, as I'm not a doctor, or particularly well read on the transmission of the virus, I am unaware of whether babies are born with HIV, or acquire it through ingestion of mum's milk after birth. It was just a suspicion that not the full story is apparent.

Jason

According the the World Health Organisation the risks from a mother using the formula with contaminated water (as most of them have to do) is greater than the the risk of passing HIV to the infant through breast feeding. Of course there will be times when the mother can safely use the formula then it is appropriate.

The problem is that the companies are misselling their product to mothers who cannot safely use it. As a consequence babies are dying.

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Reality Internet Personality

According the the World Health Organisation the risks from a mother using the formula with contaminated water (as most of them have to do) is greater than the the risk of passing HIV to the infant through breast feeding. Of course there will be times when the mother can safely use the formula then it is appropriate.

The problem is that the companies are misselling their product to mothers who cannot safely use it. As a consequence babies are dying.

Hmmm, sounds to me like what they need is clean drinking water then, as surely if mum gets ill, the breast milk won't be all that nourishing either, when spread amongst multiple infants also. Unless of course third world mums are hardened against drinking the local water supply somehow. I think I'll hold off on that shirt&mug and go for the water programs instead.

Jason

[Adelaide tapwater related local saying: "If it's brown drink it down, if it's black send it back"]

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

sounds to me like what they need is clean drinking water

What they need is 'financial support' without the added 'nanny support'... ;)

(But we all know that ain't ever gonna happen.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

According the the World Health Organisation the risks from a mother using the formula with contaminated water (as most of them have to do) is greater than the the risk of passing HIV to the infant through breast feeding. Of course there will be times when the mother can safely use the formula then it is appropriate.

The problem is that the companies are misselling their product to mothers who cannot safely use it. As a consequence babies are dying.

Hmmm, sounds to me like what they need is clean drinking water then, as surely if mum gets ill, the breast milk won't be all that nourishing either, when spread amongst multiple infants also. Unless of course third world mums are hardened against drinking the local water supply somehow. I think I'll hold off on that shirt&mug and go for the water programs instead.

Jason

[Adelaide tapwater related local saying: "If it's brown drink it down, if it's black send it back"]

Jason, I think you've unknowingly brought us full circle. Then again, I can't read all the posts in this thread here, either, for lack of time.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I just wonder what these babies would be eating if it wasn't baby formula mixed with dodgy water ...

If the baby is not drinking formula, it would be drinking breast milk, which is far healthier under most cirumstances.

You should be also aware that some women just cant feed breastmilk for some reasons like my wife.
I´m very happy that we in germany have those companys like Hipp.
The products are more expensive but good and 100% biologic and healthy.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

I, and everyone who thinks as I do, will always do nearly anything I please, evade and avoid the law, actively seek to waste gov't resources, and will always provide goods and services for profit, whether I have some gov’t powers or not.

This is yet another example of total carelessness and amorality.

No, it's an example of my unwillingness to let others force their ideas onto me or anyone else, regardless of what anyone else happens to think.

Beliefs like this can only be examples to budding criminals, oligarchs and totalitarians of any stripe, left or right.

Then you simply haven't read a thing. Nothing in my philosophy is of any use whatsoever to criminals, oligarchs, totalitarians or anyone else that would initiate force against others.

It is utterly disgusting, repulsive and repugnant to any and all decent people the world over.

Why, because you sez so?

Jeebus I find that hilarious, and I love saying it. Heh. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

What I'm trying to say is the same thing Rush and I have been telling you since day 1. While Nestle may be guilty of unethical practices, that is a FAR cry from being malicious.

It becomes malicious when a company is made fully aware of the consequences of their actions..and the harm it is doing and then persists in it's actions.

Well, except that in reality, all that they've been made fully aware of is that you and some other people are of the opinion that their actions are harming others.

They disagree with you, and don't care what you think.

What now?

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

The difference is pushing a product into an area where it cannot be used correctly bacause of an environmental problem. There are some places where the drinking water is unsafe, and there is not enough fuel available to boil all of the water. There are places where one or more family members have to spend their entire day gathering fuel to cook the meals. Some of these places also have limited sanitation, and nasty drinking water. Baby formula in these areas cannot be made safe. Nestle has been pushing its products as a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas.

That's because, when used correctly, baby formula is a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas. That making the formula with poison isn't safe doesn't mean the product isn't.

Alcholol and cars can both be used safely - just not together. Anybody in the US that has access to both has been warned many times that drinking and driving don't go together.

Anybody in Oogabooga Land or Whereverwe'retalkingaboutsville has been warned many times that the water is poisonous and dangerous--they cannot then make Kool-Aid, baby formula, or frankly, anything else with poisonous water and consider it safe.

I mean, what did they make the formula with before their bodies stopped producing breast milk?

Champagne?

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

The difference is pushing a product into an area where it cannot be used correctly bacause of an environmental problem. There are some places where the drinking water is unsafe, and there is not enough fuel available to boil all of the water. There are places where one or more family members have to spend their entire day gathering fuel to cook the meals. Some of these places also have limited sanitation, and nasty drinking water. Baby formula in these areas cannot be made safe. Nestle has been pushing its products as a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas.

That's because, when used correctly, baby formula is a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas. That making the formula with poison isn't safe doesn't mean the product isn't.

What bit of it CAN'T be used safely in these areas aren't you getting?

Alcholol and cars can both be used safely - just not together. Anybody in the US that has access to both has been warned many times that drinking and driving don't go together.

Anybody in Oogabooga Land or Whereverwe'retalkingaboutsville has been warned many times that the water is poisonous and dangerous--they cannot then make Kool-Aid, baby formula, or frankly, anything else with poisonous water and consider it safe.

I mean, what did they make the formula with before their bodies stopped producing breast milk?

Champagne?

No..they made it in safe water in the hospital..probably unaware that they would be stuck with that method of feeding and probably unaware that the water isn't safe for the their babies even if it is ok for them. Unaware about having to boil bottles..and so on. (after all..I doubt they had access to the Brixton Health Service mother and baby classes like I did)...these women are mixing the formula up incorrectly in the first place because they do not know how to use it and have not been told. Oddly enough..women aren't born with an instinctive knowledge on how to look after a baby and mix up formula. This may be a strange concept to you..but looking after a baby is something you have LEARN.

(oh...alcohol is actually a poison...using it safely is a strange concept anyway)

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Reality Internet Personality

That's because, when used correctly, baby formula is a safe alternative to breast milk in these areas. That making the formula with poison isn't safe doesn't mean the product isn't.

What bit of it CAN'T be used safely in these areas aren't you getting?

I can't fathom then why anyone would feed it to their kids in the first place, given that they know full well they don't have access to safe water.

I mean, what did they make the formula with before their bodies stopped producing breast milk?

Champagne?

No..they made it in safe water in the hospital..probably unaware that they would be stuck with that method of feeding and probably unaware that the water isn't safe for the their babies even if it is ok for them. Unaware about having to boil bottles..and so on.

All of this stuff they are unaware of, and yet, somehow, instead of asking around or finding out for themselves, they figure they should be feeding the stuff to their kids.

(after all..I doubt they had access to the Brixton Health Service mother and baby classes like I did)...these women are mixing the formula up incorrectly in the first place because they do not know how to use it and have not been told. Oddly enough..women aren't born with an instinctive knowledge on how to look after a baby and mix up formula. This may be a strange concept to you..but looking after a baby is something you have LEARN.

I would think that given all these babies that are dying, they would learn the concept of not using unsafe water very very quickly.

(oh...alcohol is actually a poison...using it safely is a strange concept anyway)

“Here's to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.” --Homer Simpson

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

What bit of it CAN'T be used safely in these areas aren't you getting?

I can't fathom then why anyone would feed it to their kids in the first place, given that they know full well they don't have access to safe water.[/quote]
You can't fathom it because you can't seem to put yourself in anyone else's shoes.

No..they made it in safe water in the hospital..probably unaware that they would be stuck with that method of feeding and probably unaware that the water isn't safe for the their babies even if it is ok for them. Unaware about having to boil bottles..and so on.

All of this stuff they are unaware of, and yet, somehow, instead of asking around or finding out for themselves, they figure they should be feeding the stuff to their kids.[/quote]
I guess because people dressed as nurses (ie pretending to be nurses) told them it was best for their babies. Tell me what other source they were meant to use? Libraries? The internet? TV? Have you any idea what it is like to be poor in a developing country? They don't have access to anyone to ask around. They are poor people in a developing country.

I would think that given all these babies that are dying, they would learn the concept of not using unsafe water very very quickly.

it's a bit late by then..and how long do you think it would take to work out that is what is killing the babies? Remember..they do not have family doctor, they do not have easy access to hospitals, they do not have libraries, TV or the internet...

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Reality Internet Personality