When big banks get in trouble, guess who bails them out... we the people thats who. So much for the idea of let the markets be free. When big business fails, socialism saves their ass.

I think I'm leaning more socialist every day. Plug for www.wsws.org. If you want to read different ideas than the so called free marketers who leave us with their messes.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/rock-f22.shtml

When big banks get in trouble, guess who bails them out... we the people thats who. So much for the idea of let the markets be free. When big business fails, socialism saves their ass.

I think I'm leaning more socialist every day. Plug for www.wsws.org. If you want to read different ideas than the so called free marketers who leave us with their messes.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/rock-f22.shtml

Perhaps people have the wrong ideas of banks.

Banks were always bailed out by 'us the people'.. That's how they make their money... They take our money and take risks with it.

If banks fail to get a good return we get a lower interest rate or the ecconomy suffers... Ergo: We pay which ever way things go.



We are in error for assuming that 'nationalisation' has anything to do with 'socialism'...


Nationalising Northern Rock was all about keeping it afloat and ensuring that those investors with a higher than national average income were protected.

An ecconomic and political act at the nations expense for sure.

Hardly a socialist act though.


State capitalism maybe!


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Nationalising Northern Rock was all about keeping it afloat and ensuring that those investors with a higher than national average income were protected.

An ecconomic and political act at the nations expense for sure.

Hardly a socialist act though.


State capitalism maybe!


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Totally agree with this. I personally am not happy at the thought of thousands of £s of my tax money bailing out a company that I have absolutely no interest in and absolutely nothing to gain by doing so - but when have my views or thoughts ever mattered or made a difference to the way the country is run?

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Noam Chomsky has discussed this type of situation many times.
The coporate world and investor class preach the marvels of the free market and the disciplines of the free market.
The reality is quite different.

When profits are up, the free market is praised as the provider of all things good.
When profits drop, the working people within the corporation are subjected to the market discipline, ie: they are fired, but the company falls back into the protective arms of the "Nanny State".

The powerful are protected from the market while the weak are subjected to the full force of the market.
Pretty good scam being perpetrated on us eh?

When big banks get in trouble, guess who bails them out... we the people thats who. So much for the idea of let the markets be free. When big business fails, socialism saves their ass.

I think I'm leaning more socialist every day. Plug for www.wsws.org. If you want to read different ideas than the so called free marketers who leave us with their messes.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/rock-f22.shtml

Solution? Stop leaning socialist. You're using straw man arguments against 'free markets' to buttress your dying hopes for your pathetic socialistic attempts at .........fill in the blank.

Classic lies. Have you even READ your own initial comment? How BIZARRE you sound.......

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Noam Chomsky has discussed this type of situation many times.
The coporate world and investor class preach the marvels of the free market and the disciplines of the free market.
The reality is quite different.

When profits are up, the free market is praised as the provider of all things good.
When profits drop, the working people within the corporation are subjected to the market discipline, ie: they are fired, but the company falls back into the protective arms of the "Nanny State".

The powerful are protected from the market while the weak are subjected to the full force of the market.
Pretty good scam being perpetrated on us eh?

By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

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When big banks get in trouble, guess who bails them out... we the people thats who. So much for the idea of let the markets be free. When big business fails, socialism saves their ass.

I think I'm leaning more socialist every day. Plug for www.wsws.org. If you want to read different ideas than the so called free marketers who leave us with their messes.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb2008/rock-f22.shtml

Solution? Stop leaning socialist. You're using straw man arguments against 'free markets' to buttress your dying hopes for your pathetic socialistic attempts at .........fill in the blank.

Classic lies. Have you even READ your own initial comment? How BIZARRE you sound.......

I think we all live a kind of puritanism.

I've never seen a 'true' socialist society. (The old USSR certainly was neither communist nor socialist.)

I don't think I've even seen a 'true' capitalist society either.

Yet we argue for or against with such ferver as if thee things were of some real importance.

The only true socialism I have seem is at the community and family level - Where people were far more important than wealth.



I hope I never live in a purist society.

It would be like setting ourselves up to become fossils.


Peanut is right in that we as a social society end up paying for the failed risks of those who live the capitalist dream.




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By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

Let's eliminate the problem by turning the uneducated and unskilled into soylent green wafers to feed the educated and skilled, who will then be better energized to fulfill their assigned tasks from the master class.

What more noble contribution to society could a person make than to fuel the superior classes?

SNIPS Lots...

By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

A few years ago I had a guy come to an adult language class I was working in.

He was 55 and unemployed and for whatever reason he had never learnt to read.

In all ways you would judge him as uneducated and someone feeding off society.

As I got to know him he told me his story.

He started work at 15 years of age and continued until he was about 53.

He worked doing any manual job he could learn by sight since he couldn't read.

In his last few years he worked in a fabrications factory (metal stamping and mouldings) but when he hit 53 the factory decided to install computerised systems.

He was highly skilled in his job yet when the computerised machines appeared he was suddenly deemed 'unskilled' because he couldn't read the manuals or the computer screen...


Now tell me:

This man who was life long 'uneducated' and ended up 'unemployed' at 55 yet had worked all his life and had then been deemed 'unskilled'....

.... Was he not worthy of the same value I would afford you or me?



.

By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

Let's eliminate the problem by turning the uneducated and unskilled into soylent green wafers to feed the educated and skilled, who will then be better energized to fulfill their assigned tasks from the master class.

What more noble contribution to society could a person make than to fuel the superior classes?

Last time I checked, education and skills were not something humans are born with, but rather something we acquire in order to succeed in life.

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SNIPS Lots...

By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

A few years ago I had a guy come to an adult language class I was working in.

He was 55 and unemployed and for whatever reason he had never learnt to read.

In all ways you would judge him as uneducated and someone feeding off society.

As I got to know him he told me his story.

He started work at 15 years of age and continued until he was about 53.

He worked doing any manual job he could learn by sight since he couldn't read.

In his last few years he worked in a fabrications factory (metal stamping and mouldings) but when he hit 53 the factory decided to install computerised systems.

He was highly skilled in his job yet when the computerised machines appeared he was suddenly deemed 'unskilled' because he couldn't read the manuals or the computer screen...


Now tell me:

This man who was life long 'uneducated' and ended up 'unemployed' at 55 yet had worked all his life and had then been deemed 'unskilled'....

.... Was he not worthy of the same value I would afford you or me?

"because he couldn't read the manuals or the computer screen..."

Clearly a victim of his own lifestyle. Are we to believe that in 50+ years he NEVER had the time or opportunity to learn to read or did he CHOOSE to be that way? Bad stuff happens to good people everyday for reasons we cannot control...lack of education isn't one of those reasons.

BTW, it's learned, not learnt

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Last time I checked, education and skills were not something humans are born with

I'll give you the worldly education part, but the skills are a gift from God... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

I always have a laugh at your expense when you post stuff like this.

You automatically assume that people who've lost their jobs fall into those two categories.

It's as if the machinists or engineers who are fired when the aerospace industry moves jobs to Asia suddenly have lost their abilities and education.

The system you so despise is there to protect everyone's common interests.

Are you going to mock the system when your house catches fire or when one of those unskilled people you speak of breaks into it? Firefighters and police are part of the SOCIALIZED system.

Oh no. You want protections when it comes to you and your stuff. It's just those other people who aren't worthy of help from the system.

Hell, they aren't even worthy of a little human compassion in your mind.

Clearly a victim of his own lifestyle. Are we to believe that in 50+ years he NEVER had the time or opportunity to learn

Gosh, I've thought that about every self proclaimed 'experienced' old timer that I've ever met... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

By weak you mean uneducated and unskilled, right?

In other words, those who feed off the system rather than contribute to it...

I always have a laugh at your expense when you post stuff like this.

You automatically assume that people who've lost their jobs fall into those two categories.

It's as if the machinists or engineers who are fired when the aerospace industry moves jobs to Asia suddenly have lost their abilities and education.

The system you so despise is there to protect everyone's common interests.

Are you going to mock the system when your house catches fire or when one of those unskilled people you speak of breaks into it? Firefighters and police are part of the SOCIALIZED system.

Oh no. You want protections when it comes to you and your stuff. It's just those other people who aren't worthy of help from the system.

Hell, they aren't even worthy of a little human compassion in your mind.

Everyone that loses their job doesn't fall into that category, just those who lack the essential needs to find another job...and you're right, those who are intentionally incapable of taking care of themselves ARE unworthy of my compassion.

Even in cRunchy's example...the man isn't sitting on his butt complaining. Instead, he's learning to read.

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I agree with Rob't Waite, turn them into soylent green and make food for the masses. Helps with mass starvation, famine, etc. etc. A full belly stops a lot a riots and complaining.

SNIPS Lots more...

A few years ago I had a guy come to an adult language class I was working in.

He was 55 and unemployed and for whatever reason he had never learnt to read.

.......

"because he couldn't read the manuals or the computer screen..."

Clearly a victim of his own lifestyle. Are we to believe that in 50+ years he NEVER had the time or opportunity to learn to read or did he CHOOSE to be that way? Bad stuff happens to good people everyday for reasons we cannot control...lack of education isn't one of those reasons.

...snip...

The story is true.

Tough luck if it bothers you.

Sorry if this individual does not fit into your concrete value system.

Since you know near zip about the guy it's a bit sad adding your own interpretation of his life just to bolster your world view.

...BTW, it's learned, not learnt

Really.

Sorry again :o( - I didn't mean to tax your education.

You already know I'm from the UK.

I use the word 'learnt' but you can spell it which ever way you wish.

... or were you just trying to show how much cleverer you were than me?


I guess it doesn't matter too much.


The story about the 55 year old guy is still true though and if you ever come to my city I will take you to meet him.

He may not fit your perfectionist view of the world but he's a great human being.

At least I think so...
... So shoot me.



It's an odd world no doubt.


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Everyone that loses their job doesn't fall into that category, just those who lack the essential needs to find another job...

Odd that (the company fixtures) get paid to learn, while others are expected to be (college degreed experts) before they can even get a job... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Just out of interest what is the percentage of the population in the USA that are currently unemployed? (Not including people who are ill or disabled or with an alternative income.)

Just out of interest what is the percentage of the population in the USA that are currently unemployed?

You won't get an answer to that question... But I can guarantee that it is much higher than the ten percent they keep harping on...

The ONLY way to get an accurate count of the unemployed is to take the total population and subtract those who are employed and those who are retired... As easy as that may sound, those who would like to know don't have access to that kind of info, and those who do have access to that kind of info don't want you to know... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .