Many good points cRunchy. Especially the last one.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

Some of my posts are starting to look quite controversal, this is not grandstanding, but rather my genuine feeling on the matter at he time of writing the post. i am pretty set in my beliefs, but im only 30 so im still flexible enough to change my view when someone provides sufficient argument.

now ill put this out there first so you can see the motivations behind my thinking, but pls dont assume i wish all others to beleive or not belive the same as myself, truth be told i dont overly care what faith people follow.

i consider myself an agnostic theists, and my slant is basicly that there very well 'may' be a supreme being out there, but i doubt it. even if there was, i doubt very much it took the time to write out pretty little rules for our puny species to follow, more likely its far more busy out there building universes and its affection for us 'might' be a passing pride or shame, but we are probably to insignificant to even notice.

so from that point of view i seriously consider all our modern religeons involving god or allah or whatever name he goes by as complete fabrications of man, these religeons are mere tools of power created in years gone past by a selection of insightfull conmen. by insightfull what i mean is they really hit the spot a weakness we humans have, a sheer terror that death is it, after that we fail to exist. Using such a weakness against us, its no wonder these power systems have stood the test of time, but the duration of an illusion does not make it any more real. in fact if im completly honest i bundle these kind of religeons in the same catagory as mythical creatures, magic weapons and wizards e.t.c Its just all the junk we made up before we had sci-fi to occupy our minds.

so..when we hear that Benazir Bhutto was repeatedly set upon by violent men, it really makes me angry, i have no interest in whether 'god' said it was ok, by just about everything we belive in that doesnt involve religeon, its wrong for random citizens to inflict pain on those of us who speak for others, its typically neadertalic behavior, ' i cant beat your argument with words, so ill smash or kill you'. and even worse for me is the fact that it was a woman, dont get me wrong, i do feel that women should be treat as equal as possible, but lets face it an average man with average combat skills would almost always beat an average woman with average combat skills, its not sexism its primal nature. far too many ppl get uppety about civilised life and forget the natural order of things, aside from other intelectual factors men in general are pre built to be the fighters of our race and to harm a woman is so very very wrong (unless she chooses to be a part of that world then its her own bloody fault) but polotics and violence are mutually exclusive imho.

ps please forgive the spelling this came out live and un checked, you cant edit passion.

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Well I for one take exception to the title of this thread!

To associate an assassination with "peaceful Islamists" is
to say the least inflammatory. It points to an agenda, and may
even be considered an instance of "hate speech".
I'm surprised no-one has commented on this before.

Who are we hatin' ?

Maybe I should have titled it 'by typically murderous islamist'.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Well I for one take exception to the title of this thread!

To associate an assassination with "peaceful Islamists" is
to say the least inflammatory. It points to an agenda, and may
even be considered an instance of "hate speech".
I'm surprised no-one has commented on this before.

Who are we hatin' ?

Maybe I should have titled it 'by typically murderous islamist'.

I doubt that you're capable of making a rational statement on the topic.

Then I presume you've read all my postings on this topic and deemed none of them to be rational.

What then would a rational comment read like? Enlighten me.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Regardless of whether they are Fundamentalists or Fanatics - They are Islamic.

Therefore, as Islam is supposed to be peaceful, the current events confirm the title of this thread.

as Qui-gon pointed out, the moderates of Islam refuse to speak out, thereby condeming Islam itself.

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Islam is supposed to be peaceful

I am a white-male american, and I happened to come across your website. I see you had a lot to say, and seem to have gotten people extremely frustrated. There is only one problem though, are you aware that your facts are not facts? It is obvious you are only doing this to get muslims to act a certain way, so you have every reason to justify every bad thing you ever said about them. I (personally) am not muslim, but know a little bit about the religion, and it is surely not what you and the media make it out to be.

Islam is a peaceful religion. The term Islam even means peace. So your bias accusations are morally incorrect. In politics, they use the terms: "Radical Islam" or "Islamic Fascism". They also label all people who object the government policy overseas (and even in America), "Terrorists". In reality, Americans all over the U.S. are blinded by what the media says. Americans who watch the news, believe they understand everything that is going on, when in reality, they don't! They only know what the media tells them, and believe what the media wants them to believe! Every American knows there is information hidden from them, and it is wrong how the media brainwashes them to believe they are bringing out the truth.

America uses the term terrorist only to keep emotions and fears of Americans alive. The government wants all americans to support the war they are planning in the middle east, and need something that will make all Americans emotionally support them. Do you even know what a terrorist is? The media claims a terrorist is anyone who fights to support their country (against America), anyone who opposes america, anyone who opposes domination of the world (from America), or an act of violence which is claimed to be justified by radical religion. Americans around the U.S. are being brainwashed, and its a shame that some of the freest, finest people in the world can be easily manipulated. Ariel Sharon seemed to have a definition of terrorism, "One who leads an armed group that kills civilians as a means of political intimidation". Is Sharon calling he, and his supporters terrorists? Because if I am not mistaken, it is Israel who specializes in killing innocent civilians, even children. There is horrific evidence of Israel doing such things, and its sad that America (the land of the free, and home of the brave)supported terrorism! Sharon also believes, "If it is strictly military combat, it is not terrorism". So once again, is he calling himself a terrorist? Because if he is trying to criticize Hezbollah, he has no argument, since Hezbollah only has confrontations with the greedy Israeli Army. So once again, he and everyone who agrees with him, is proven wrong!

Now America's story is they are only trying to bring democracy to the world, and will do it one country at a time. They do not tell you what they are actually doing overseas, and what is driving the muslims crazy enough to act a certain way. If I kill your brother, would you now wish death upon me? America does not show the killing of the brother, they only show the reaction. When they show the reaction, they use it in such a way to show that muslims are Radical and will kill for no reason. Yes, it obviously is meant to scare Americans and keep supporting the policy. Islam only opposes those who support the devil or evil. If muslims are acting a certain way, it is not because they interpret their books that killing people is ok. The Qur'an does not wish death to America, and surely only opposes the forces of evil. Since Islam is a peaceful religion, think about how much evil it will take to get them to act this way. America must be hiding a lot, but its a common thing for people overseas to say America is raping muslim women and torturing muslims. Once again, with that happening, self defense is terrorism, right?

Since the law of physics does not agree with how the towers fell, and lack of footage of the terrorist attacks on the pentagon and plane crash, it is hard to be completely accurate that the attack had no special significance to America itself. Democracy is the weakest it has ever been, and is only going to get weaker as the Apathy in politics continues, and the lack of education continues.

Last thing I would like to say is your whole page on muslims around the U.S. and around the world is invalid. Once again, you are only doing this to frustrate muslims enough to say something you want them to say, or act a certain way because they feel they are hated. It is wrong what you are doing, and if you are part of any religion, lying is a bad thing, and you will never enter the gates of heaven for as long as you stay the way you are. Keep the hatred in your heart, since the lord knows what is right! Let them deal with the devilish, false hatred you have in your heart. You should feel proud you either support world domination, or are completely brainwashed... Congratulations, and to all Americans who read this, you are all very special people, and I am not Anti-American! It is an amazing thing to live in a free country, but its scary when the freedom is being taken away little by little.

Thank you very much, may there be world peace someday!

;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

What a pack of lies that whole screed is.

And you may want to give proper attribution to the author as it is a lenghty quote from elsewhere.

I especially liked how he calls terrorism simple 'self defense'.

Good job, Jeffrey.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Tell me Jeffrey, what do you think of so called "Honour Killings"?

Peaceful Islam? Don't make me laugh!! I have a lovely family as neighbours. Unfortunately, I feel sorry for the eldest child. She just reached her 16th birthday & is not allowed out of the house on her own.

She is scheduled to marry an old git who is old enough to be her father!!!

Peaceful Islam? Employing people to do work for them that they are unable to do themselves & then only pay them what THEY feel its worth AFTER agreeing to the job & its costs?

Peaceful Islam - stealing from neighbours, drunkeness, gambling?

These things are all very well in an Islamic state, but as soon as they enter a christian country Islam is forgotten until non-muslims pass comments on their excesses, then they label us racist!!!

Peaceful Islam? don't make me laugh!!! Let me guess, you live in the UK?

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Sorry my friend your are quite wrong. If I had any issues with muslims, I would not be living where I am for over 6 years.

I was just stating the fact that when a non-muslim points out the errors that they themselves state are against the islamic faith, they label us racist.

If Islam itself is against violence, why aren't the Imans shouting from the rooftops? Why aren't they co-operating with the authorities & teaching "Peaceful Islam"?

Also, no one individual is perfect, even soldiers. However, most servicemen/women go out of their way to protect women & children. I have yet to hear or see service personnel from any country use a baby as an explosive device. Even the IRA never sunk this low (not that I am condoning anything they did)!!!

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Tell me Jeffrey, what do you think of so called "Honour Killings"?

Peaceful Islam? Don't make me laugh!! I have a lovely family as neighbours. Unfortunately, I feel sorry for the eldest child. She just reached her 16th birthday & is not allowed out of the house on her own.

She is scheduled to marry an old git who is old enough to be her father!!!

Peaceful Islam? Employing people to do work for them that they are unable to do themselves & then only pay them what THEY feel its worth AFTER agreeing to the job & its costs?

Peaceful Islam - stealing from neighbours, drunkeness, gambling?

These things are all very well in an Islamic state, but as soon as they enter a christian country Islam is forgotten until non-muslims pass comments on their excesses, then they label us racist!!!

Peaceful Islam? don't make me laugh!!! Let me guess, you live in the UK?

this is so typical of our culture to highlight all the bad parts of a culture and brand them as a generalisation.

'true' muslims are not allowed to drink, ergo they are not true muslims if they do. It really is hypocrasy in its prime form. there are millions of westerners that would claim to be christian, yet they seem to think its ok to sleep with hookers and beat their wives, and god knows what else. My point is there are millions of us who claim to be of a religion and yet are not worth of it, so any citation you can find of a 'bad' muslim and this argument is pretty much my response.

lets face it ALL forms of relegion attract numerous undesirables to hide behind the virtue of the title, so i dont really think its fair to hone in on a bad person to say its a bad religion.

e.g
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Peaceful Islam? Employing people to do work for them that they are unable to do themselves & then only pay them what THEY feel its worth AFTER agreeing to the job & its costs?

does that sound truly like an islamic teaching, or is that just the same as many scumbags around the world.
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Peaceful Islam - stealing from neighbours, drunkeness, gambling?
Peaceful christian - stealing from neighbours, drunkeness, gambling?
can we really spot a difference beyond the spelling of a single word?

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Peaceful Islam? Don't make me laugh!! I have a lovely family as neighbours. Unfortunately, I feel sorry for the eldest child. She just reached her 16th birthday & is not allowed out of the house on her own.

She is scheduled to marry an old git who is old enough to be her father!!!


not trying to be rude but even before your great-grandfathers great-grandfather was around in whatever random country your genepool came from (certainly not U.S.A, the land of no history) these people were a well established race. now im sure you may feel very strongly about the way they treat their women and i would agree, but lets face it its not actually our business (unless a crime is commited on our soil). i know i know its a natural thing for us westoners to want everything on the planet to conform to our way of thinking, but its basicly tough...
for example: 'She just reached her 16th birthday & is not allowed out of the house on her own' have an opinion by all means, but unless she asks you for help then keep your nose out, or you will be commiting a typical western hypocracy and thats the freedom of your own home..i certainly know how i would treat someone that came to MY door and tried to tell me how to raise my kids...

in summary, i just think maybe you should look at what your about to say about islam or whatever and find the opposing flaws in our own society first, because we match them plenty.

oh and what exactly is this supose to imply?
Peaceful Islam? don't make me laugh!!! Let me guess, you live in the UK?
i spose your one of those that think life on the streets in america is tougher than over here? LOL

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Sirus

Even the IRA never sunk this low (not that I am condoning anything they did)!!!

I am an Englishman, so i spose i would be considered an enemy of the IRA, but i DO condone a lot of what they did. We did infact pretty much take over their country and said tough, what were they spose to do, throw bad words and sticks at us?

in fact im pretty sure that the whole Protestant Vs Catholc was a massive part of the problem, only highlighting just how in modern warfare "terrorism" is just as much a christian tool as an islamic one.

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What a pack of lies that whole screed is.

And you may want to give proper attribution to the author as it is a lenghty quote from elsewhere.

I especially liked how he calls terrorism simple 'self defense'.

Good job, Jeffrey.

sometimes Scary, i find what you have to say can be quite insightfull, but i have to say i have notice something..
Account data for Scary Capitalist
Total credit 36,029
Message boards 11993 posts

that makes your work (something usefull that humanity can benefit from) to posts (random waffle that serves no real purpose)
equates to aproximatly 3 to 1.

im afraid to say that for me, that statistic speaks volumes about your character..

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Sirus

Even the IRA never sunk this low (not that I am condoning anything they did)!!!

I am an Englishman, so i spose i would be considered an enemy of the IRA, but i DO condone a lot of what they did. We did infact pretty much take over their country and said tough, what were they spose to do, throw bad words and sticks at us?

in fact im pretty sure that the whole Protestant Vs Catholc was a massive part of the problem, only highlighting just how in modern warfare "terrorism" is just as much a christian tool as an islamic one.

Sorry but your wrong. I am an Irishman & I DO NOT condone anything they did. The fastest way to hurt a country is to hit their means of force. They had the means to attack both Police & Armed Forces bases which would have been very effective.

Instead, what did they do - Bomb innocent civilians - Oh let me guess, we did that during WWII - so we did but that was total war. Since when was Britain & Ireland at war?

Regardless of whatever one's culture/religion is, terrorism cannot be condoned, & to use a baby as an IED - WOULD YOU?

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I get the feeling some people miss the old days. That kind of security that having an enemy somewhere out there gave to the 'Cold War' generation.

It sounds like we have just surplanted one form of angst for another.


Benazir Bhutto who was most likely to have been the next leader of Pakistan was killed.

Whether the killer was Islamic makes no difference since 90%++ of Pakistan is Islamic in principle.


Benazir was killed by someone who just did not want to see her as a woman, or as a popularist leader or as a strong international voice win the election.


She was killed. Not in too disimilar a way to JFK.


These are our assasinated leaders.

Yet all we seem to talk about is whether Islam or something out-there is bad... blah blah...


Does anyone here actually have anything worthy to say about Benazir Bhutto?

I suspect that in one day of her life she has made a greater difference to the world than all of our posts about how bad this or that religion could ever make.


Or was her name in this thread title just a useful way for someone to have yet another attack on Islam...


Benazir Bhutto made a difference to at least 120 million people in Pakistan.... and we can't even give her our few voices in this forum.




Our world is often not made by what we try to create. It can be made just as easily by what we choose to ignore.



(PS: Oh. and yes I'm from the UK and no I am not pro-Islamic either... Oh pants maybe I'm not British...)

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Sirus

Even the IRA never sunk this low (not that I am condoning anything they did)!!!

I am an Englishman, so i spose i would be considered an enemy of the IRA, but i DO condone a lot of what they did. We did infact pretty much take over their country and said tough, what were they spose to do, throw bad words and sticks at us?

in fact im pretty sure that the whole Protestant Vs Catholc was a massive part of the problem, only highlighting just how in modern warfare "terrorism" is just as much a christian tool as an islamic one.

Sorry but your wrong. I am an Irishman & I DO NOT condone anything they did. The fastest way to hurt a country is to hit their means of force. They had the means to attack both Police & Armed Forces bases which would have been very effective.

Instead, what did they do - Bomb innocent civilians - Oh let me guess, we did that during WWII - so we did but that was total war. Since when was Britain & Ireland at war?

Regardless of whatever one's culture/religion is, terrorism cannot be condoned, & to use a baby as an IED - WOULD YOU?

ok i stand corrected, or should i say i need to correct my own statement.

my knowledge of our 'war' is slim. i was too young to understand and too old for it to have filtered into the schools in 'history' type classes.

so its probably better for me to say that in principle i understand why they fought, and most of the footage i have seen is probably more acuratly described as dirty gurrila warfare rather than terror. i didnt say i agreed with their tactics, no i certainly wouldnt use a child as a weapon except in the most extreme fate of the planet type scenario would i even consider it.


"Instead, what did they do - Bomb innocent civilians - Oh let me guess, we did that during WWII - so we did but that was total war. Since when was Britain & Ireland at war?"

deliberatly targeting civilians is a fools game i agree, only reverse example i can think of is if a civilian population activly supports a horifying regime such as nazi.

my whole outlook on the war in iraq tells me we should never have sent soldier en masse their in the first place. we did not have a problem with iraq, we had a problem with its leader..thats what a sniper rifle is for..

as to the assasination of Benazir Bhutto, i just think it was the design of a rival politician, plain and simple. muder doesnt need religion, a dash of polotics will suffice, hell even simple envy will do it.

and im not really any for of creedist, i dislike all diety based religions equally....Buddhism anyone?

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Benazir Bhutto made a difference to at least 120 million people in Pakistan.... and we can't even give her our few voices in this forum.

But that's my point - She was a woman. Islam will not tolerate a woman making decisions for the men. As far as they are concerned, women are 3rd class citizens.

All men should not forget that we would not exist if not for them.

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maybe I've overestimated the company I've been keeping.

These types of threads always seem to separate the men from the bigots... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

maybe I've overestimated the company I've been keeping.

These types of threads always seem to separate the men from the bigots... ;)[/quote]

I love women. As a matter of fact, my ex-wife was Asian. We split up after 8 years due to social differences - She is a lawyer, I was a lorry driver. However, she is still in touch to this day, & has even taken my wife & I out to dinner.

My old colleagues in the transport industry used to often annoy me with their racist comments until the day I brought her to a company dinner. No more racist comments but got a lot of sexist remarks which showed their envy.

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I love women. As a matter of fact, my ex-wife was Asian.

Lucky for her, she wasn't an Asian Muslim... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I love women. As a matter of fact, my ex-wife was Asian.

Lucky for her, she wasn't an Asian Muslim... ;)

No she wasn't but she could not understand why she was treated as an equal. As for luck, I was the lucky one as I couldn't understand why such a gorgeous creature wanted to marry me. I'm no Tom Cruise or whoever. She has even regretted splitting up as do I, but that's life.

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