Not to be mean or anything, and maybe I am missing something but, here it is. With all the recent chatter about OverClocked chips issuing 'messed up' results and times/cycles/credit for the Seti Project...isn't that gonna mess up the scientific data? Who cares if you have a large amount of credit if you screw up the data??? Aren't we supposed to be looking for life outside of this planet. So, if this is true that OverClocking does in-validate your data, shouldn't Seti dump all of the results from OverClocked Systems???

Honestly, no insults intended...just looking at the main reason for the project...the collection of sceintific data to prove/disprove life off of this planet.

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Where are you seeing that this is happening all over the place? I have a bunch of OC'd computers and AFAIK, I'm not turning in any bad science.

Besides which, that's what the quorum is for, to check and make sure bad science isn't coming back...

-Dave

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Chances are, that if a computer submits erroneous results for whatever reason, that result won't agree with the other result submitted by the second cruncher, and another packet will have to be sent to a third machine. That will almost always eliminate the erroneous result from awarding of credit, because almost always, in this case, the second and third results will agree. So if a machine is overclocked inappropriately, its owner will be the one to lose, and nobody else, except for a delay.

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Not to be mean or anything, and maybe I am missing something but, here it is. With all the recent chatter about OverClocked chips issuing 'messed up' results and times/cycles/credit for the Seti Project...isn't that gonna mess up the scientific data? Who cares if you have a large amount of credit if you screw up the data??? Aren't we supposed to be looking for life outside of this planet. So, if this is true that OverClocking does in-validate your data, shouldn't Seti dump all of the results from OverClocked Systems???

Honestly, no insults intended...just looking at the main reason for the project...the collection of sceintific data to prove/disprove life off of this planet.

A WU from an overclocked system is just as good as one from a system that is not, PROVIDED that the returned result validates with its wingman (second person crunching the result). If it does not, then the result will be resent as many times as necessary to get a match (up to a specified limit).

I think you are confusing two different issues.
1. At the start of Multi-Beam, the servers sent out a large number of 'bad' WUs. This has been corrected, but Seti has no easy way to identify them and purge them, so they must be processed until the max number of errors are returned and the WU 'dies'.

2. Overclocking is a recognized method of speeding up a computer beyond its recommended capability. If done properly (and not everyone does), it will return valid results for this and other projects.

Yes, your comments were correct in part. I was confusing some issues together. OverClocking, (IF DONE RIGHT - as most of you have already stated, and how do we know if a machine/chip has been CORRECTLY OverClocked?), Enhanced Apps (again, no offense to my fellow programmers out there), and the Multi-Beam units that were 'messed up'. Let me address each seperately.

OverClocked CPU/Machine - As stated above, IF DONE CORRECTLY - how do we know which account has been done correctly and which were done incorrectly (weather by accident or deliberate for extra credit/lower completion times)? Should we take the risk of counting any of these since Seti/we will never know which machine/CPU had been done correctly? Again, possible flawed data which will destroy any hopes of the data being completly valid in a scientific view/format.

Enhanced APPS - If you change the program, alter the program, or delete/add portions to the software program that is 'crunching' the data collected by Team Seti...have you not again CHANGED the resulting data, which also makes the data collected from these machines USELESS since it is not a consistant, un-contaminated, controlled result? ALL data in ANY scientific study HAS to have a control factor that is un-disputable or ALL of the data collected is flawed and NOT VALID.

Multi-Beam Units - I think RandyC cleared that up nicely. The system will continue to send out the units until it 'sees' that there is an issue and invalidates the signals/workunits that are corrupt. So, really there is no need to panic over the Multi-Beam Units that were not 'clean' data...they will be removed from the overall data by the servers/system on Seti's end.

Again, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here, but I am just looking at this from a pure scientific point of view. All research (medical, social, numerical, scientific) must have a set number of perameters, data, and a control to be valid. If we allow our results to be obtained in different ways that quite possibly (probably are) different then the original way the research/experiment was designed to be performed...ALL of our data is USELESS...and for what??? So that someone can say 'Ha! I have more credits then you do with the same processor/system!' I really think we need to look at keeping our data results PURE instead of WHO HAS THE MOST CREDITS, or nobody will take us seriously if/when we do find someone out there unless they land on the White House lawn in full view of the media.

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Sterling, Rom Walton did a whole piece on the "the good the bad and the ugly" (actually, it's a two parter) on why Optimized Applications can be....well....good/bad/and ugly. I tried to get you a link, but his site is giving me fits ATM. Romworld

Yes, your comments were correct in part. I was confusing some issues together. OverClocking, (IF DONE RIGHT - as most of you have already stated, and how do we know if a machine/chip has been CORRECTLY OverClocked?), Enhanced Apps (again, no offense to my fellow programmers out there), and the Multi-Beam units that were 'messed up'. Let me address each seperately.

OverClocked CPU/Machine - As stated above, IF DONE CORRECTLY - how do we know which account has been done correctly and which were done incorrectly (weather by accident or deliberate for extra credit/lower completion times)? Should we take the risk of counting any of these since Seti/we will never know which machine/CPU had been done correctly? Again, possible flawed data which will destroy any hopes of the data being completly valid in a scientific view/format.

Enhanced APPS - If you change the program, alter the program, or delete/add portions to the software program that is 'crunching' the data collected by Team Seti...have you not again CHANGED the resulting data, which also makes the data collected from these machines USELESS since it is not a consistant, un-contaminated, controlled result? ALL data in ANY scientific study HAS to have a control factor that is un-disputable or ALL of the data collected is flawed and NOT VALID.

Multi-Beam Units - I think RandyC cleared that up nicely. The system will continue to send out the units until it 'sees' that there is an issue and invalidates the signals/workunits that are corrupt. So, really there is no need to panic over the Multi-Beam Units that were not 'clean' data...they will be removed from the overall data by the servers/system on Seti's end.

Again, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here, but I am just looking at this from a pure scientific point of view. All research (medical, social, numerical, scientific) must have a set number of perameters, data, and a control to be valid. If we allow our results to be obtained in different ways that quite possibly (probably are) different then the original way the research/experiment was designed to be performed...ALL of our data is USELESS...and for what??? So that someone can say 'Ha! I have more credits then you do with the same processor/system!' I really think we need to look at keeping our data results PURE instead of WHO HAS THE MOST CREDITS, or nobody will take us seriously if/when we do find someone out there unless they land on the White House lawn in full view of the media.

If done Correctly....Your Dual core could do a lot more work...Maybe some want to find ET in their lifetime....and I would bet any signals would be checked and rechecked before making an announcement...But that is only thinking with common sense....

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

If done Correctly....Your Dual core could do a lot more work...Maybe some want to find ET in their lifetime....and I would bet any signals would be checked and rechecked before making an announcement...But that is only thinking with common sense....
[/quote]

I just replaced my Core 2 Duo with a Core 2 Extreme Quad Core about 10 days ago, but it is stock. No OverClocking, Factory Fan, Factory Chip, in a Factory Intel Board...that is how I try to increase my credits and my service to the project...by buying the latest hardware straight off the shelf and installing it without altering it in any way. Thanks for noticing my equipment/upgrade...I just thought it would be one way to help the cause and give me an excuse to spend the money on new hardware.

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Explain what is meant by the term "overclocking," please.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Explain what is meant by the term "overclocking," please.

Overclocking is manually adjusting a computer's bios settings to run the cpu, fsb, or ram (or all of them) at faster speeds than they are rated for by the manufacturer.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Not to be mean or anything, and maybe I am missing something but, here it is. With all the recent chatter about OverClocked chips issuing 'messed up' results and times/cycles/credit for the Seti Project...isn't that gonna mess up the scientific data? Who cares if you have a large amount of credit if you screw up the data??? Aren't we supposed to be looking for life outside of this planet. So, if this is true that OverClocking does in-validate your data, shouldn't Seti dump all of the results from OverClocked Systems???

Honestly, no insults intended...just looking at the main reason for the project...the collection of sceintific data to prove/disprove life off of this planet.

Two issues here:

1) First, remember that this is a litmus test. We're not doing exact science, we're trying to locate sources that can be verified later.

2) Two machines must agree, or the work is sent to more computers.

Overclocking will kill your credit, but it probably won't hurt the science.

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Overclocking will kill your credit, but it probably won't hurt the science.

????? Overclocking will not kill your credit unless you push things so far that you are getting client errors or returning invalid results.

EDIT...LOL, if overclocking kills your credit, then I must have the most overrated little batch of crunchers on the project.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Explain what is meant by the term "overclocking," please.

Overclocking is manually adjusting a computer's bios settings to run the cpu, fsb, or ram (or all of them) at faster speeds than they are rated for by the manufacturer.

That was one of my guesses. Thanks.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Enhanced APPS - If you change the program, alter the program, or delete/add portions to the software program that is 'crunching' the data collected by Team Seti...have you not again CHANGED the resulting data, which also makes the data collected from these machines USELESS since it is not a consistant, un-contaminated, controlled result? ALL data in ANY scientific study HAS to have a control factor that is un-disputable or ALL of the data collected is flawed and NOT VALID.

I'd bet you $1 that for SETI (and probably all the other BOINC projects) IF the results of a WU are *very* interesting, then it will be RE-crunched independently and probably more than once.

But what about the interesting WU that becuase of xxx the results do NOT reveal that it is interesting?? Hopefully, the quorum will (if not eliminate at least) minimize these occurances.

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SETI@home since 1999
"Set it, and Forget it!"

Overclocking will kill your credit, but it probably won't hurt the science.

????? Overclocking will not kill your credit unless you push things so far that you are getting client errors or returning invalid results.

I should have said "over-overclocking."

If you overclock properly (i.e. if you stay in the range where "1" and "0" are still 1 and 0, and not 0.7 and 0.3) then your machine will be fine, and your results will validate.

If you over-overclock, you introduce some randomness (by reading signals before they stabilize) and your results will "vary" and not in a good way.

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Overclocking will kill your credit, but it probably won't hurt the science.

????? Overclocking will not kill your credit unless you push things so far that you are getting client errors or returning invalid results.

I should have said "over-overclocking."

If you overclock properly (i.e. if you stay in the range where "1" and "0" are still 1 and 0, and not 0.7 and 0.3) then your machine will be fine, and your results will validate.

If you over-overclock, you introduce some randomness (by reading signals before they stabilize) and your results will "vary" and not in a good way.

Ahhh....that's what I thought you meant.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

In extreme briefness:

Overclocking is fine provided that you know what you are doing, how you are doing it, and you verify that it all still works correctly afterwards.

The verification bit is to at least run Memtest86+ and then the mprime95 torture test at the highest temperature your system will suffer during the day.

Once it reliably correctly passes those tests, then back off your OC-ing by one step to maintain a full OC-ing step of margin. (You may be just getting a 'marginal pass' on the present settings and another 0.001 deg C rise or just another day and it all then fails... Hence, back off one step!)


Note that you can overclock to the point whereby Windows might not "BSOD" yet the FPU is trashed and produces junk, or worse still just occasional junk.

Good luck,

Happy crunchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Not to be mean or anything, and maybe I am missing something but, here it is. With all the recent chatter about OverClocked chips issuing 'messed up' results and times/cycles/credit for the Seti Project...isn't that gonna mess up the scientific data? Who cares if you have a large amount of credit if you screw up the data??? Aren't we supposed to be looking for life outside of this planet. So, if this is true that OverClocking does in-validate your data, shouldn't Seti dump all of the results from OverClocked Systems???

Honestly, no insults intended...just looking at the main reason for the project...the collection of sceintific data to prove/disprove life off of this planet.

To pick up on your point about overclocking. There are probably more systems out there that have not been clocked than clocked.

I run two puters neither of which are clocked. The older one runs at 100% 24/7 and the better rig with dual core and faster CPU runs at 65% 24/7. Many other people will be doing the same so these machines will give a balance to the project.

Greg

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The Art of Flying is Throwing Yourself at the Ground and Missing. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy..Douglas Adams

To pick up on your point about overclocking. There are probably more systems out there that have not been clocked than clocked.

I run two puters neither of which are clocked. The older one runs at 100% 24/7 and the better rig with dual core and faster CPU runs at 65% 24/7. Many other people will be doing the same so these machines will give a balance to the project.

Greg

I am sure there are FAR more computers on Seti running stock than there are running OC'd. Even some of the 'top computers' which are server based are running at stock speed.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

And how does one get clocked?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.