SO:
Even IF we COULD complete tasks 1) and 2), we would *still* be unable to travel in 'Time', because we would have no way of knowing where our 'Timeship' would 'rematerialise' - it could end up in the heart of the Sun, in a different galaxy, within the Event Horizon of a Black Hole, or even outside the boundaries of this Universe.

The single logistical fundamental flaw in your theory is that you assume we will never be able to answer the questions of space in relation to it's vastness and limitations (if any). One thing is for certain, we humans love to ask "why?". We are tortured by the very word and it presses us on in our existence to understand things.

In general, I agree that time travel isn't probable, but that doesn't mean we won't ever figure out the questions to the rest of the universe. But I'm the type that doesn't like to put too much stock into anything since time and time again history has shown us that we are still very naive in our understandings, and to never underestimate the human factor. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I would say it's highly improbable.

Evidence that incontrovertibly supports my assertion that Time Travel is Impossible for humans in this Universe:

If I'm wrong, and Time travel IS possible - WHERE then are all the Tourists from the Future?

I agree with this assertion. Based upon our very capitalistic ways, in order to help offset all the R&D that goes into learning things such as what you mentioned above (i.e. how big the universe is, exactly), we would attempt to recover the costs through commercializing time travel, initially only for those that could afford it, then as the economical curve kicks in (even if in a few hundred years), it would be affordable for most everyone.

I not so sure U.F.O.s are "time travelers". They could be. But then what about the rest of the tourists? What about a million years from now? What about a billion years from now? What about when the Earth is finally drained, blown up or otherwise doesn't exist anymore and people want to go back in time to see what life was like "back then"?

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SO:
Even IF we COULD complete tasks 1) and 2), we would *still* be unable to travel in 'Time', because we would have no way of knowing where our 'Timeship' would 'rematerialise' - it could end up in the heart of the Sun, in a different galaxy, within the Event Horizon of a Black Hole, or even outside the boundaries of this Universe.

The single logistical fundamental flaw in your theory is that you assume we will never be able to answer the questions of space in relation to it's vastness and limitations (if any). One thing is for certain, we humans love to ask "why?". We are tortured by the very word and it presses us on in our existence to understand things.

In general, I agree that time travel isn't probable, but that doesn't mean we won't ever figure out the questions to the rest of the universe. But I'm the type that doesn't like to put too much stock into anything since time and time again history has shown us that we are still very naive in our understandings, and to never underestimate the human factor. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I would say it's highly improbable.

Evidence that incontrovertibly supports my assertion that Time Travel is Impossible for humans in this Universe:

If I'm wrong, and Time travel IS possible - WHERE then are all the Tourists from the Future?

I agree with this assertion. Based upon our very capitalistic ways, in order to help offset all the R&D that goes into learning things such as what you mentioned above (i.e. how big the universe is, exactly), we would attempt to recover the costs through commercializing time travel, initially only for those that could afford it, then as the economical curve kicks in (even if in a few hundred years), it would be affordable for most everyone.

I not so sure U.F.O.s are "time travelers". They could be. But then what about the rest of the tourists? What about a million years from now? What about a billion years from now? What about when the Earth is finally drained, blown up or otherwise doesn't exist anymore and people want to go back in time to see what life was like "back then"?

Great, that's all we need. Illegal immigrants from the future.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Who knows what we think that we are seeing is actually the reality? Our brain has its own software to convert visual input data. But is the software flawless? or is does it need debugging?





Many who admire the excellent design of Mother Nature and the gift of vision and the enhancements thru evolution wonder; Why Can’t Our Brain Process What We See Faster? A paper by G. Bugmann and J. G. Taylor suggests that retinal jitter is an issue and could be some of the reason for the delay in the process time, thus by eliminating the extraneous visual input data into the brain the retina would not attempt to over define the object, because it is not necessary, once the object is seen, in a lesser definition, it has been registered and the eye simply moves on.

Retinal jitter in the human system could become a non-issue by using a device, which attached to the skull as an upside down extra jaw bone type system, which could be pulled down over the eye which would take out the bumps using algorithm averaging of the object (s) being viewed. This would even out the bounces before the eye gets the information, therefore the retinal jittery being reduced could possibly cut the time of in processing by half because some of the relay events will no longer be needed will not be needed. Question being how small can we make such a device and would it need to be over both eyes? Since you would no longer need the eye’s sight to cross in front of the other for distance measurements. Which also means that the eye-brain processing time has one less thing to do. When a human looks at a car, truck, boat, airplane, or even a cup of coffee, it taps the memory simultaneously for verification of that item. Once that item is discovered and recognized much of the visual input can be skipped over. Similar to Frame Bursting concepts in high-speed data transmissions, for instance here is a brief concept along that lines:

Once the object is identified as a car, helicopter, Jeep, Basket Ball, then the mind fills in the rest even if the eyes have not fully yet registered the rest. This can also occasionally fool us as our memory can over ride our observations in that we do not look for the anomalies associated with a similar but not exact match, but then our eyes continue to focus and bring the rest of the information to the brain. If the device attached figures out such details for our eyes and displays a picture quickly with less definition and features in a virtual reality form within the current perceived reality of the real world then the mind will be able to process this information faster once we have become accustomed to it.

Will our actual preference be changed as to which reality we rather prefer? Which perception we would rather be in, during observational visual stimulation? Perhaps, after all cartoons are quite fun to watch are they not? Would augmented reality help us take in more visual data faster when we most needed it in high risk and stress environments? Think about it.

Do we see all the colors that exist. or do we see a limited range? do we see what is actually here now? or only what we are allowed to see?

TheTimeTraveler

Just popping in to observe... That's what Time Lords do; mostly...

So, here's a question - What about the TARDIS? (Time And Relative Dimensions In Space - aka: T.A.R.D.I.S.)

Thus, as evidenced as a most probable way to travel through time and space and all related dimensions therein/thereby; a TARDIS powered by a micro-singularity would be able to travel "Anywhere" and "Anywhen" within or even outside spacetime, this universe or even other universes parallel or otherwise... Have I made everyone's brain hurt yet?

Bye now...

Come along, K-9 we have the Multiverse to explore.

"Affirmative, Master."

---

TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

OH!!! Almost forgot... Since a TARDIS is powered by a singularity; and, the race of the Time Lords are masters of singularities, a TARDIS if ever caught in/by another singularity, (micro or otherwise), would be able to escape the event horizon of said other singularity... Again, have I made people's brain(s) hurt yet? (Been there, done that, just watch the show...) ;-D

<passes a brand spanking new Sonic Screwdriver to Chris S.>

Here ya go, Chris! Enjoy.


Come along, K-9! Don't dawdle.

"Affirmative, Master."

---

TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Just popping in to observe... That's what Time Lords do; mostly...

So, here's a question - What about the TARDIS? (Time And Relative Dimensions In Space - aka: T.A.R.D.I.S.)

Thus, as evidenced as a most probable way to travel through time and space and all related dimensions therein/thereby; a TARDIS powered by a micro-singularity would be able to travel "Anywhere" and "Anywhen" within or even outside spacetime, this universe or even other universes parallel or otherwise... Have I made everyone's brain hurt yet?

Bye now...

Come along, K-9 we have the Multiverse to explore.

"Affirmative, Master."

Ah, Doctor. Glad you popped in. Always useful to have an expert about.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

I'd still love to hear it. 8-)

Keep in mind that Douglas Adams teaches us that nothing is impossible, just highly improbable.

OK, here goes (be warned, it's a bit long-winded):

WHY Time Travel is Impossible In This Universe:

So, we all know that 'space' & 'time' are merely aspects of the same
beast, called (imaginatively enough) 'Spacetime' yes?
i.e. that 'Time' is merely another 'direction', to go along with the 'x', 'y', and 'z' directions in 'Space'.

So, you'd think that travel in 'Time' would be possible, right?
*But it isn't*, and here's why, without any need to invoke higher math, discussions of 'flying through a Black Hole', or need to invoke that implacable enemy of all Life, Entropy....

If you wish to travel from Point A to Point B, you need to know where
Point B is, or, in the case of long-distance travel in 'Outer Space',
where Point B *is going to be* when your slow-ass 'Spaceship' finally
gets there.

E.g., if we wish to send a probe to Mars, which currently takes about 18 months, we have to aim it at the location that Mars will be in in about 18 months.

Now, let's assume that we wish to re-visit USCF to watch the first World Series game in October 2005...
(In my defence, Your Honour, I AM a Sox fan)

To travel through 'Time', we need to build a 'Timeship' that is able to do three distinct things; so here are the easy two to start off with:

1) our 'Timeship' must be able to move through 'Time' to any point in 'history', from any other point in 'history' - which is, as any fule kno, a doddle;

2) our 'Timeship' must also be capable of instantaneous, faster-than-light travel to any point in 'Space' from any other point in 'Space' - which is also, clearly, the merest bagatuelle;

3) once we have got over the relatively simple bits above we *still* have to be able to aim our 'Time Ship' at the exact point in physical 'Space' where USCF *was* on the night of the first World Series game that October, and it is at this point where it all gets 'a bit tricky'....

Now, OK, we all know that the Earth is spinning, and how fast it spins, so we can calculate where our 'Timeship' will have to 'rematerialise' relative to its 'launch point' on the Earth's surface;

We also know that it is orbiting the Sun, and how fast it's doing that, so we can calculate where the 'Timeship' will have to 'rematerialise' relative to its 'launch point' within the Solar System;

We also know how fast our Solar System is moving around the centre of our Galaxy, and how fast it's doing that, so we can calculate where the 'Timeship' will have to 'rematerialise' relative to its 'launch point' within the Galaxy;

And we can measure the velocity of our Glaxy relative to the rest of the Universe, so we can calculate where the 'Timeship' will have to 'rematerialise' relative to its 'launch point' within this Universe (yay!);

BUT:
We have NO way of determining whether (or not) the Universe *as a whole* is rotating (although, given that everything in it is rotating, this does seems likely), or at what speed it is rotating, OR whether it is moving relative to whatever (if anything) is outside of our Universe, or at what speed it is doing that.

SO:
Even IF we COULD complete tasks 1) and 2), we would *still* be unable to travel in 'Time', because we would have no way of knowing where our 'Timeship' would 'rematerialise' - it could end up in the heart of the Sun, in a different galaxy, within the Event Horizon of a Black Hole, or even outside the boundaries of this Universe.

*Who* the Vorsprung dürch Technik is going to fund the construction of a hugely-expensive engineering project that will very likely be rendered non-recoverable by its first launch?

HOW would you develop it? - there'd be NO way of knowing whether or not the technology actually worked.

I therefore assert that Time Travel is impossible for humans (or anyone else) in this Universe.

Evidence that incontrovertibly supports my assertion that Time Travel is Impossible for humans in this Universe:

If I'm wrong, and Time travel IS possible - WHERE then are all the Tourists from the Future?

You'd maybe expect them to come looking for notable world events, wouldn't you?

The 20th Century was one of unparalleled global turmoil and change, AND Shoemaker-Levy 9 put on a spectacular show when it hit Jupiter.
Who *wouldn't* want to go watch the first Moon Landings?

And yet, no tourists from the future have showed up - so I say that this is because there ARE none.

N.B. - I am NOT saying here that travel to earlier times in parallel
Universes that are similar to our own is impossible, just time travel within this one.
(This would also remove the 'Grandfather paradox', because it wouldn't be *your* Grandfather that you killed, if you were in a Parallel Universe.)

Now we've heard why it's not probable but remember we are all time travelers right now. The UNiverse as we know it as a whole can be traveling at any speed maybe at the speed of light who knows :-)
The fundamentals of time travel have to do with quantum physics. Time AND space don't make a difference! either does the position upon leaving one time and arriving at another. Believe me it works!


J.T.

See my comment to another "impossible" subject

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Account frozen...

erm. may be a spanner in the works will help.

What if time itself did not exist?

I see matter occupying space and I see space that matter could occupy but time is just a measure of regular movement of matter through space.

If time did not exist then no matter what any egg-head said you could never move through time except to arrive here.

What if the big bang was still happening and you did not realise it.

What if we just stopped asking questions because the answers were already known.

I don't cook my pizza based upon time. I cook it based upon the change of molecules and it's slightly less than burntness.


Time does not exist... and that's why you can't travel through it!!

Hello just thought I'd say I'm back,
JOHN TITOR

Welcome back John. Sorry about getting off-topic.

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Account frozen...

Time Travel

There may be no other concept that captures the imagination more than the idea of time travel -- the ability to travel to any point in the past or future. What could be cooler? You could jump into your time machine to go back and see major events in history and talk to the people who were there! Who would you travel back to see? Julius Caesar? Leonardo da Vinci? Elvis? You could go back and meet yourself at an earlier age, go forward and see how you look in the future... It's these possibilities that have made time travel the subject of so many science fiction books and movies.





time travel

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LETS BEGIN IN 2010

What if time itself did not exist?

<snip>

Time does not exist... and that's why you can't travel through it!!

If time doesn't exist, then history wouldn't exist. We know events have happened because the moment we experience them, they become part of the past.

Time is a measurement. If it didn't exist, you wouldn't have an age. How do we know we have the accurate measurement? We don't. But this is the best our primitive minds can come up with in our current stage of evolution.

Time most certainly does exist.

[Edited for spelling]

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Now we've heard why it's not probable but remember we are all time travelers right now.

True, but we are only traveling through time sequentially. The trick that we want to master (since we want to master evertying as a race) is how do you skip around through time, either forward or backward?

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Now we've heard why it's not probable but remember we are all time travelers right now.

True, but we are only traveling through time sequentially. The trick that we want to master (since we want to master evertying as a race) is how do you skip around through time, either forward or backward?

Again, to an observer in another dimension or in another universe we might not be moving forward sequentially we might be moving along a sinus curve or backwards ?

We know that time and velocity is different to a stationary viewer than to the time traveler.
but the viewer is in our universe what if he's somewhere else?

maybe we are travelling along something similar to a dna but not a dual helical structure maybe an infinite helical structure ??
J.T.

Again, to an observer in another dimension or in another universe we might not be moving forward sequentially we might be moving along a sinus curve or backwards ?

Even in a curve, it's still sequential. You can't start at the middle, bounce to the lower right of a curve, then over to the beginning, then up to the peak, etc. That would be time travel. The way time is now, from our perspective, is that (as far as we know) we begin at one end and travel through to the other. Even going "backward", we'd still be starting at one point and going to the other end. Like starting at the end of a maze and ending at the beginning. It doesn't matter which end you mark as "start" and which one is "end", the fact is that we move sequentially through. No skipping allowed.

We know that time and velocity is different to a stationary viewer than to the time traveler.
but the viewer is in our universe what if he's somewhere else?

Very true. We don't know how our time looks in another dimension. But we don't even know, scientifically, if other dimensions even exist. Theoretically they do, but we don't know it as a fact. As far as we know, only 4 dimensions exist: Length (1st), Width (2nd), Depth (3rd), and Time (4th). In Superman 2, General Zod was trapped in the Phantom Zone, discovered by Jor El, and it existed solely in the 2nd dimension (which is why it was flat, it only had Length and Width, no depth and no time [they didn't age]).

Until we know as fact, we cannot make any other observations until we get to that point. Even if we were to have another view of our own travel through time, that doesn't make it any less sequential to those in it. It's like the difference between being stationary and being in a car. To the stationary observer, the car is moving. To the driver, everything else is moving around him. Regardless of the viewpoint, it doesn't make it any less true. Likewise with time travel. Even if to others we are skipping around, to us we are not.

Now, there may be a key in there, if we are able to see it from a different perspective as to how we could time travel. But it would literally have to be from a more advanced dimension, such as the fifth dimension or later.

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Don't try this at home:

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Ain't no such thing as time travel ! Or if there is, we will never do it according to the Elvis Law of Time Travel ! Think about it. If we DO discover time travel, and can go back in time. Who would they want to meet ? Duhh ! Elvis ! The King of Rock and Roll ! And the King never mentioned it ! Ergo, no time travel !

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I can think of thousands of people I'd be more interested in talking with. Plenty of them forwarded ideas about time travel being possible.

No disrespect intended to "The King".

:P

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I can think of thousands of people I'd be more interested in talking with. Plenty of them forwarded ideas about time travel being possible.

No disrespect intended to "The King".

:P

No disrespect infered. Name one person u like. Did he mention it ?

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If we could travel into the past, it's mind-boggling what would be possible. For one thing, history would become an experimental science, which it certainly isn't today. The possible insights into our own past and nature and origins would be dazzling. For another, we would be facing the deep paradoxes of interfering with the scheme of causality that has led to our own time and ourselves. I have no idea whether it's possible, but it's certainly worth exploring.

CARL SAGAN, NOVA interview, Oct. 12, 1999

Memoirs of the Twentieth Century (1733) by Samuel Madden

Louis-Sébastien Mercier's L'An 2440, rêve s'il en fut jamais ("The Year 2440: A Dream If Ever There Was One") is a utopian novel set in the year 2440. An extremely popular work (it went through twenty-five editions after its first appearance in 1771)

Far Boundaries (1951), the editor August Derleth

Charles Dickens' 1843 book A Christmas Carol

1861 Paris avant les hommes (Paris before Men), French botanist and geologist Pierre Boitard.

The Clock That Went Backward by Edward Page Mitchell, which appeared in the New York Sun in 1881

Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (1889)

Enrique Gaspar y Rimbau's 1887 book El Anacronópete.

Orson Wells wrote in 1888, titled The Chronic Argonauts

Stephen Hawking once suggested that the absence of tourists from the future constitutes an argument against the existence of time travel—a variant of the Fermi paradox.

The theory of general relativity does suggest scientific grounds for thinking backwards time travel could be possible in certain unusual scenarios, although arguments from semiclassical gravity suggest that when quantum effects are incorporated into general relativity, these loopholes may be closed. These semiclassical arguments led Hawking to formulate the chronology protection conjecture, suggesting that the fundamental laws of nature prevent time travel, but physicists cannot come to a definite judgment on the issue without a theory of quantum gravity to join quantum mechanics and general relativity into a completely unified theory.

See also:

* Traveling faster than the speed of light
* The use of cosmic strings and black holes
* Wormholes and Alcubierre 'warp' drive




Elvis quote:

“Don’t criticize what you don’t understand, son. You never walked in that man’s shoes.”

-Elvis often used this adaptation of a well-known quotation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss