Down Time III (May 03 2007)

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Profile Pappa
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Message 559944 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 3:12:01 UTC - in response to Message 559823.  

Blurf

I understand with the limited information everyone has, it is tough... It was tougher finding something that Donate Hardware II could actually sink its teeth into... That was what brought us to this point, that thread made things happen that Seti did not have money for hardware! They did not have Donations that could cover the hardware/operations. Everyone efforts that help to get Bruno working has solved a lot of issues and more. They are still not out of the woods yet. From my stand point, there was a small success inrespective of things that annoy You, I or others.

If I were to state One Goal, It would be to get Seti where these hardware issues are not an issue!

Now how to get there... The stupid "middleman" slot has afforded me information... I would love that there were more people that had more "private information" working on the problem! If More People, More Ideas, More People, Better Communications! Then things could move ahead "faster and in a more postive direction."

Lest we forget, Seti is the Founder and Poster Child for Distributed Computing! Or for how can you do something with a limited budget and make it work... Seti has never been rich... New Projects that are well funded have grown from what everyone here has helped create! Even Projects that have Your Free computer time working for Profit Organizations... We will call it progress, on everones efforts...

All said, I believe You and I have a misunderstanding that You and I need to resolve... I open to clearing that misunderstanding, yes it has been happening for a long time...

Regards

Pappa

Pappa--

While I appreciate your apology for being "overbearing"-it's a continuing trend. I've received 5 personal emails today alone (and have since our last "Clash of the Titans") from people concerned with your involvement in the hardware donations. As I said before maybe you should stick to the Cash Donation side--you're VERY good at that.

I don't care about recognition....I just want to end these outages. There is a reason people are emailing ME about these concerns....please try to consider that point.

With all due respect, I will call and speak with Eric personally next week about my concerns.

I am done.


Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 559983 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 4:28:49 UTC - in response to Message 559665.  

So, with the *known* difficulties in receiving uploads, will the due dates for existing work be push back?? So far the only response to this I've seen is that since uploads don't fail 100% (probably closer to 90%),there is no reason to push out the due dates. Frankly, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me and it also seems, that given there is little to do on the database server side until some new hardware shows up, that performing the task of artificially pushing out due dates by a week or more would be an action of 'good will' on the project admin side of things.



This one is clearly off subject, lol, hey BarryAZ, a fellow Arizonan, Mesa here.
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Message 560016 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 5:38:58 UTC - in response to Message 559243.  


How does the SETI staff handle those contributors who have wished to truly remain anonymous and have mailed a cash contribution of $1, $5, or even $10 or more in an envelope with no return address or tracking information?

What kind of government reporting headaches and acknowledgment expenses do those anonymous donations create? Have those individuals' efforts helped or hindered the project?


That's a good question.... I know that each check we receive costs us a few minutes of Kevin's time. You can ask Kevin what his salary is, but it's not a financial burden for him to spend a few minutes. I don't know how anonymous cash is handled. Cash received with any identifying information needs to be properly tracked and acknowledged. Since I don't open the envelopes myself, I don't know how often we receive anonymous cash, if ever. It certainly needs to be entered and tracked but beyond that IDK. I would guess that it gets dealt with in one lump sum, if more than one anonymous cash donation arrives in a batch.


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Message 560109 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 10:52:15 UTC - in response to Message 559316.  

[...snip]

As far as I know noone except a US citizen can deduct when donating to a US entity, so perhap's they could remove us from mailing system? We do fill out where we are from so it shouldn't be impossible.

Carl


That all depends on where you are.
From the Seti@home donation page:
Q: What if I'm not in the U.S.?
A: The conditions for tax deductibility described above may only be applied to taxes paid within the United States of America. For any other country or territory, the local legislation and/or International Conventions may sometimes allow you to benefit from similar local deductions, which would apply for the reasons of supporting educational projects and scientific research. You must verify these conditions yourself.


I'm in Canada, and have donated before. I've received a tax receipt, and my accountant says that it's not a problem. Since the donation itself goes through Berkeley, I assume it's covered under the "educational projects and scientific research" section.


Sorry, should have written Europe, Canada and the US is a bit closer in many ways. So to the best of my knowledge no european citizen has any need of that letter.
Oh, sorry, that should have said any EU citizen. We haven't assimilated everything here yet.

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Message 560117 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 11:00:15 UTC - in response to Message 559803.  

Kevin

The "middleman" thing gets in the way at times Yes! I guess the small advanatage is, I have a couple phone numbers to call or email from me gets attention a bit quicker... Then if it is the right phone call you can then talk person to person... I know that Matt, Eric and Crew are normally taking whichever crisus is currently happening (crisus management)... So getting full information is tough.

That said, I will bring up one of the topics that I discussed over coffee with Eric... Information Flow, one of the solutions would be, Team Leaders (and concerned parties) could have a Private Forum/Email to discuss how to move Seti past "This is a Crisus." If more people are on the same page then it is easier for everyone, Teams know more and can respond more quickly. Then the things that Seti Users keep asking for can happen, it removes some of the information burden from the Seti Staff...

I really would love to chat with you, more people working on ideas to keep Seti Alive is definately better...

As for the email, I am sorry that I had anything to do with putting you in the position...

I will disappear, Sunday I leave for a long overdue vacation to Hawaii... NO I am Not taking a Laptop!

Edit
For most users this is too much information... We all have a Common Goal to find ET! What you thought I typed was not necessarily transfered correctly from the Keyboard to what you see in the Forum...
/edit


Pappa I know you mean well, and so do most of us - but I am the kind of person that does not like middle men. No offense. The previous posted email from Matt and Eric was not meant for public knowledge, and never was meant to be posted. The donation that never was - was done between me and the admins at Berkeley on purpose, so it was kept anonymous. Now it has been brought out in the open for self defense. Something that should not have had to happen, and in the future, when you make comments - you may need to think that you are not the only person in the SETI project with access to the administration.





On this I have to disagree.
Yes, team leaders do have a lot of knowledge and information. But... There are also a lot of individuals and even companies not team-affiliated with more knowledge and more resources than most teams. And with those omited you loose out on a lot that would be beneficial to Seti so I would advice against it.
Because some things will be posted on that closed list that will never get an answer, or will get an answer much later in the end than if it was known to genpop.
And I also fail to see the need. We are not that many who are active on here, so there should be no need for it. We are actually not drowning in info here.

My five öre!
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Message 560295 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 15:45:29 UTC - in response to Message 559803.  



I really would love to chat with you, more people working on ideas to keep Seti Alive is definately better...



I think you must have missed the point of my comment. Of course if someone had an "official title" granted to them by the SETI Staff as "gatekeeper" then I might consider it.

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Message 560544 - Posted: 5 May 2007, 19:42:09 UTC - in response to Message 560109.  

We haven't assimilated everything here yet.

Leave that to me.
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Message 561074 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 10:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 560544.  

We haven't assimilated everything here yet.

Leave that to me.


Actually you have been assimilated by the swedes. When Brannon was in sweden he was so horrified of our automaton behaviour that he imagined how the world would be if we spread and took over that he invented the Borg. He named them after the swedish tennisplayer Björn Borg who back in the seventies was his idol. More or less Borg assimilated the tennis courts.

Resistance is futile, assimilation is drawing near.
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Message 561419 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 15:57:02 UTC
Last modified: 6 May 2007, 16:05:16 UTC

I know not everyone has the ability to donate for various reasons, but with 600,000+ users it's hard to not imagine what would be possible if everyone donated just $1


Wow! I didn't mean to start such a heated debate. I was simply kinda thinking out loud about the possibilities of what could happen if every user (600,00+) could/would donate just $1 (reread my quote above). I wasn't saying or implying that everyone could/should donate. I wasn't aware of the letter and such that they send you for tax purposes, and now understand the reason for the minimum donation. I just got done submitting my donation. Looked at the donation history page afterwards and see that almost as much money has been donated in May (and it's only the 6th) as all of April. Thanks to everyone that has donated (in the past and recently) and lets keep it up.

To those that have said they spent several hundered or more dollars on a new computer just to run SETI, what's another $10-25 to help keep the project alive? You obviously had spare money to spend, why not help keep the project going?

That said, even if donating money/computer time is on topic in a thread about the servers being down, this is the Technical News forum. We should move the donation discussion elsewhere and keep this forum for what it is.

[ontopic]
Just like to say thanks again to Matt and everyone at UCB for their hard work and dedication to keeping the project going, and a big thanks to SUN for coming through with a replacement server.
[/ontopic]

Justin
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Message 561425 - Posted: 6 May 2007, 16:01:11 UTC - in response to Message 561419.  

I totally agree, ten or twentyfive dollars is worth it just to keap our hobby alive:-)

Wow! I didn't mean to start such a heated debate. I was simply kinda thinking out loud about the possibilities of what could happen if every user (600,00+) could/would donate just $1. I wasn't aware of the letter and such that they send you for tax purposes, and now understand the reason for the minimum donation. I just got done submitting my donation. Just looked at the donation history page and see that almost as much money has been donated in May (and it's only the 6th) as all of April. Thanks to everyone that has donated (in the past and recently) and lets keep it up.

To those that have said they spent several hundered or more dollars on a new computer just to run SETI, what's another $10-25 to help keep the project alive? You obviously had spare money to spend, why not help keep the project going?

That said, even if donating money/computer time is on topic in a thread about the servers being down, this is the Technical News forum. We should move the donation discussion elsewhere and keep this forum for what it is.

[ontopic]
Just like to say thanks again to Matt and everyone at UCB for their hard work and dedication to keeping the project going, and a big thanks to SUN for coming through with a replacement server.
[/ontopic]

Justin


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Message 562210 - Posted: 7 May 2007, 14:51:22 UTC - in response to Message 561425.  

[quote]I totally agree, ten or twentyfive dollars is worth it just to keap our hobby alive:-)

Like Justin, just like to say thanks again to Matt and everyone at UCB for their hard work and dedication to keeping the project going, and a big thanks to SUN for coming through with a replacement server.

However, if we could have a link started on what and what isn't a donation we could really have a good time disputing the point.

My weekly income is £82 (UK) before I pay rent and any othe bills. Suggested as a minimum of $10 (to cover costs and still have something left to spend), would be about 8% of my income. For many here that it would seem, is like 0.08% or even less of their wages.

I volunteer my services and equipment. The time and use of that equipment is then a donation. When SETI, which was I believe the first company to farm out work to volunteers started, all they wanted was those volunteers. Donations were secondary. If growing changes the criteria, then surely those in power should relook at what it actually is they are after.

In many places around the message boards it is stated that this is an (addictive) hobby. How much and how many professional paid members were there in those days. It would seem as computers get bigger(in terms of crunching power) and faster then we need more manpower on the ground to work out what is actually in that data.

Another point to raise here is that in 1999 we were told we were helping in the search for that radio signal out there from Uncle/Aunty E.T. yet in the Cafe forums we are told that still isn't what is being studied. I am getting more and more confused. Could someone please tell me what we are crunching for?

Baz
P.S. You may move this message into a new Link if it is deemed beneficial to keep this as Techy News link. Thank in anticipation
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Message 562266 - Posted: 7 May 2007, 16:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 562210.  


However, if we could have a link started on what and what isn't a donation we could really have a good time disputing the point.

Seems we have a link started every time someone mentions money.

... and it's really, really obvious.

SETI@Home needs two things: volunteers to donate CPU cycles, and money to collect the results (run servers, buy bandwidth) and do the science.

If you don't have the volunteers, you don't need the money, and if you don't have the money, you can't collect work from the volunteers.

It is just that simple.

People who can donate a little cash should -- people who can't shouldn't.

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Message 562278 - Posted: 7 May 2007, 16:50:46 UTC

I for one, want to thank Matt and all the people at SETI who keep us running and SUN for their newest donation. SETI has been about finding what's "OUT THERE" it was in 1999 when I started and still is. We all know every "project" needs time, people and $$$$$$. We also know we do what we can based upon our resources and interest. Let's just keep it going:)
"It is better to be hated for what you are then to be loved for what you are not"
- Andre Gide (1869-1951)
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Message 562337 - Posted: 7 May 2007, 18:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 562210.  

Another point to raise here is that in 1999 we were told we were helping in the search for that radio signal out there from Uncle/Aunty E.T. yet in the Cafe forums we are told that still isn't what is being studied.

Some people also think that the moon landings were a hoax & feel the need to connvince everyone else of it.
The data is however being use for more than just checking for possible signs of extra-terrestrial life.

I am getting more and more confused. Could someone please tell me what we are crunching for?

If you click on the About link at the top of the page you'll find out all about Seti@home.
Grant
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Message 564035 - Posted: 9 May 2007, 23:12:45 UTC - in response to Message 559656.  

I see that the old argument about donating computer time, resources and paying for electricity to do so IS a donation to Seti. While I agree that it could be called a donation of sorts it is not the kind of donation that Seti truly needs at this time.

If you can afford to purchase and operate a computer for Seti you should be able to afford a $25.00 per year financial donation for Seti. That is the bottom line in my view. My grandaughter who is 10 years old could afford a $25.00 per year donation and I fail to understand why there is not more participation here.

I am on a fixed income, disabled, and I can do it! Have donated 3 times in fact!


I've been trying to avoid the donation controversy, mainly because I think it's not really relevant to the topic of this thread, but I couldn't let this one go.

First of all, Seti needs ALL sorts of donations, all the time. That includes work time.

Second, I did not buy a computer just to run Seti. In fact, I own four computers and only run BOINC on one of them (and that one has been down for a week, and unable to run Seti for months before that (first, I disabled Seti because it coudn't get through a WU in the time alotted; then, since I solved that problem and allowed it to do Seti again, it has been unable to successfully download a WU; meanwhile, it was doing Einstein work)). I bought computers (actually, one of them was given to me) because I needed them for other uses and just did Seti in their spare time. Two of my computers are laptops and I had to stop doing Seti on them because they were overheating. The reason the one computer is down now is because I wanted to reduce the electricity it used and heat it generated, just for one night last week, and it won't turn on again. I would have been turning it off rather often (thus doing less Einstein (and potentially Seti) work) if it weren't for this problem of not starting again. Where I live, electric rates just went up 10% and will do so again for the next three years. My tax return for last year shows an adjusted gross income of $22,480 and I have more than that figure in credit card debt (some of it from buying the three computers). I have just run out of credit and have NO money to spare. NONE. ZIP. NADA. So no, I cannot afford to donate even $10 to Seti.

I'm happy that you and your granddaughter can donate, but please don't tell me that I can too.

Off my soap box.
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Message 565680 - Posted: 12 May 2007, 11:35:15 UTC

As Ned said. If you can donate, do it - If you cannot donate, don't.

For many of us users we can donate, and some of us do. Some cannot afford to donate, but donate computer-time. Both are really cool:-)

But there is also a group who can afford to donate some money, but instead takes time to complain about Seti not running as they think it should instead of donating. Not so cool I think.

For me this is a fun hobby. The sad thing is that most hobbies cost money, but since I am lucky and can afford to pay a bit for other hobbies I just think that it is okay to pay a bit for this hobby to. So I decided to donate as much to S@H as I buy gym-cloathes and running shoes for. (now it is up to you to decide if I rund in Prada:-)

I never intended to sound high and mighty and I am really sorry if I made people feel bad. I do know the feeling of not having any money.

If I have made anyone angry I am truly sorry.
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Message 567235 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 16:37:06 UTC - in response to Message 565680.  

As Ned said. If you can donate, do it - If you cannot donate, don't.

<snip>

For me this is a fun hobby. The sad thing is that most hobbies cost money, but since I am lucky and can afford to pay a bit for other hobbies I just think that it is okay to pay a bit for this hobby to. So I decided to donate as much to S@H as I buy gym-cloathes and running shoes for. (now it is up to you to decide if I rund in Prada:-)

I never intended to sound high and mighty and I am really sorry if I made people feel bad. I do know the feeling of not having any money.

If I have made anyone angry I am truly sorry.
Carl


Carl,

If you were responding to me, it wasn't you that set me off, it was Geek@play. Your attitude is just fine.

David

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Message 567242 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 16:47:35 UTC - in response to Message 567235.  

As Ned said. If you can donate, do it - If you cannot donate, don't.

<snip>

For me this is a fun hobby. The sad thing is that most hobbies cost money, but since I am lucky and can afford to pay a bit for other hobbies I just think that it is okay to pay a bit for this hobby to. So I decided to donate as much to S@H as I buy gym-cloathes and running shoes for. (now it is up to you to decide if I rund in Prada:-)

I never intended to sound high and mighty and I am really sorry if I made people feel bad. I do know the feeling of not having any money.

If I have made anyone angry I am truly sorry.
Carl


Carl,

If you were responding to me, it wasn't you that set me off, it was Geek@play. Your attitude is just fine.

David


Good to know:-)
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Message 567261 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 17:11:53 UTC

All contributions to this project are welcome.

But the harsh facts are that they really need money to run this business for. Their current expenses are very high, and what not many people here realize is that it was only a very few months from closing down due to lack of money. But the latest donation drive plus a cheaper ISP have made it possible for them to move a little farther away from the edge to the abyss of oblivion.


"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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Message 567267 - Posted: 14 May 2007, 17:18:17 UTC - in response to Message 567261.  

All contributions to this project are welcome.

But the harsh facts are that they really need money to run this business for. Their current expenses are very high, and what not many people here realize is that it was only a very few months from closing down due to lack of money. But the latest donation drive plus a cheaper ISP have made it possible for them to move a little farther away from the edge to the abyss of oblivion.


Yes I know that it was a close call. It was just before my return here but I got the picture quickly. I so much hope that Seti will get a more permanent funding soon. Bad in a way that they are in the US, it would be fairly easy to get an ESA grant for them otherwise. But for now we have to keap up the donations.

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Message boards : Technical News : Down Time III (May 03 2007)


 
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