US $87.5 billion for Iraq

Oh how I would like to see budgets like that for science.

$87,500,000,000!

Or better yet, the entire US (or world) defense budget: Budget wikipedia

$419,000,000,000!

The questions we could answer. For comparison's sake, a quick search shows that the annual budget of the US national science foundation is about $6 billion.

If only we humans would stop killing each other. Or being paranoid about killing each other. I wonder if it will ever change, or if we are destined to squabble amongst ourselves forever.

One day something will happen that will unite us, but by then it may be too late.

Plenty of money going to science but we'll never see it until the government sells the technology to a corporation. We pay for R&D, they cash in on it.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

to be honest, I'm amazed that we've made it as far as we have! Humans are destructive, selfish, and primitive creatures. Give us another 50,000 years to evolve, and those spending figures might reverse - but I don't know if we'll be around long enough to reap the benefits!

---

that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me

If only we humans would stop killing each other. Or being paranoid about killing each other. I wonder if it will ever change, or if we are destined to squabble amongst ourselves forever.

Humans will always disagree, because that's part of being human.

As long as humans are free to think and as long as the general philosophy consists of nothing more than it's OK to initiate force against others as long as you agree with it, then humans will always kill each other.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

to be honest, I'm amazed that we've made it as far as we have! Humans are destructive, selfish, and primitive creatures.

You may be destructive, selfish, and primitive. But I'm not. No one I know is either.

Give us another 50,000 years to evolve, and those spending figures might reverse - but I don't know if we'll be around long enough to reap the benefits!

Those spending figures will never reverse as long as people disagree. If you can understand why it's OK for you to take money from others to finance "free" health care, you can understand why others think it's OK to take money from you to finance this WHISC, the CIA, and War in Iraq.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

You may be destructive, selfish, and primitive. But I'm not. No one I know is either.

You might want to spend a little time browsing through your post history... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Humans, good grief, you make it sound like a good thing.
Let your parents and children die, and the bloke next door, and the people in other countries as well, it's your right.

Drop tonnes of explosives on people in other countries while letting people in your own country die from lack of basic medical care. Just don't act suprised when they don't like it. (Any of them)

The only thing that really matters is that when you die you have enough money to bring you back to life for another 15 minutes so you can sign another contract.

Under no circumstances should you share any of your good fortune with anyone else ... It might make them happy.

Pollute my planet because you can't gather the energy to walk to the shops, drive your gas guzzler instead. It's your "God given right".

Keep your lights turned on 24/7 someone is making money from that.

But stop talking to me about "rights" ... You are part of the herd and if you behave in a way that is detrimental to the herd eventualy you will be culled.

Now it's time to die ... "Blade runner"

---

Qunpu' lo'taHmo' jIH yItamQo'

US $87.5 billion for Iraq

Oh how I would like to see budgets like that for science.

$87,500,000,000!

Or better yet, the entire US (or world) defense budget: Budget wikipedia

$419,000,000,000!

The questions we could answer. For comparison's sake, a quick search shows that the annual budget of the US national science foundation is about $6 billion.

If only we humans would stop killing each other. Or being paranoid about killing each other. I wonder if it will ever change, or if we are destined to squabble amongst ourselves forever.

You will not see budgets like with the current administration!

It would be fantastic if they would :o)

You will not see budgets like this with the current administration!

(small edit)

You will not see budgets like this with the current political system. The dot at the end is "full stop".

Humans, good grief, you make it sound like a good thing.

It is. "I" enjoy my life, and that is a good thing. Awesome. I have opportunity to live it and that is a good thing.

Let your parents and children die, and the bloke next door, and the people in other countries as well, it's your right.

That makes no sense at all. Because you take no action, are you "letting" someone in the Sudan kill someone else? Did you "let" the Hutus butcher the Tutsis? No, of course not, it's too attenuated.

Drop tonnes of explosives on people in other countries while letting people in your own country die from lack of basic medical care. Just don't act suprised when they don't like it. (Any of them)

Again, because people live their lives does not mean individuals "let" things happen to others. The number of things that reality imposes on living things is infinite. Humans are not capable of solving all the problems of reality.

I don't drop bombs on people, nor to I deny anyone medical care. The collective, however, does. When you beg a collective to save you from reality, that means sometimes you get a bit of health care, but more often you get lots of guns and bombs--to protect you from the other collectives.

The only thing that really matters is that when you die you have enough money to bring you back to life for another 15 minutes so you can sign another contract.

To you maybe. I think that's silly because those that choose to live (or die) that way are free to do so. Just are you are free to live as you choose.

Under no circumstances should you share any of your good fortune with anyone else ... It might make them happy.

I would think you would derive a lot of happiness from helping others. I know I do.

Pollute my planet because you can't gather the energy to walk to the shops, drive your gas guzzler instead. It's your "God given right".

Your "right" as you use it (incorrectly) is to live your life as you see best. As is evidenced by the very fact that you post here, you pollute. You may pollute a little less than some, you may pollute a little more than some. But what you actually do is use your resources as you see fit. Which is what everyone else does.

Keep your lights turned on 24/7 someone is making money from that.

C'est la vie.

But stop talking to me about "rights" ... You are part of the herd and if you behave in a way that is detrimental to the herd eventualy you will be culled.

Heh heh. Who, pray tell, will be doing this? You? You're too far away to walk here.

Your whole post is just self-loathing ideology because you act as if humans aren't a part of nature, when, in reality they are. They build homes and use resources just as every other living thing on earth does.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Humans, good grief, you make it sound like a good thing.

It is. "I" enjoy my life, and that is a good thing. Awesome. I have opportunity to live it and that is a good thing.

Let your parents and children die, and the bloke next door, and the people in other countries as well, it's your right.

That makes no sense at all. Because you take no action, are you "letting" someone in the Sudan kill someone else? Did you "let" the Hutus butcher the Tutsis? No, of course not, it's too attenuated.

Drop tonnes of explosives on people in other countries while letting people in your own country die from lack of basic medical care. Just don't act suprised when they don't like it. (Any of them)

Again, because people live their lives does not mean individuals "let" things happen to others. The number of things that reality imposes on living things is infinite. Humans are not capable of solving all the problems of reality.

I don't drop bombs on people, nor to I deny anyone medical care. The collective, however, does. When you beg a collective to save you from reality, that means sometimes you get a bit of health care, but more often you get lots of guns and bombs--to protect you from the other collectives.

The only thing that really matters is that when you die you have enough money to bring you back to life for another 15 minutes so you can sign another contract.

To you maybe. I think that's silly because those that choose to live (or die) that way are free to do so. Just are you are free to live as you choose.

Under no circumstances should you share any of your good fortune with anyone else ... It might make them happy.

I would think you would derive a lot of happiness from helping others. I know I do.

Pollute my planet because you can't gather the energy to walk to the shops, drive your gas guzzler instead. It's your "God given right".

Your "right" as you use it (incorrectly) is to live your life as you see best. As is evidenced by the very fact that you post here, you pollute. You may pollute a little less than some, you may pollute a little more than some. But what you actually do is use your resources as you see fit. Which is what everyone else does.

Keep your lights turned on 24/7 someone is making money from that.

C'est la vie.

But stop talking to me about "rights" ... You are part of the herd and if you behave in a way that is detrimental to the herd eventualy you will be culled.

Heh heh. Who, pray tell, will be doing this? You? You're too far away to walk here.

Your whole post is just self-loathing ideology because you act as if humans aren't a part of nature, when, in reality they are. They build homes and use resources just as every other living thing on earth does.

I now declare I have the definitve "Rush" bait.

We who are about to die salute you.



No idea why.

funny you phrase things the way you do......

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Here in Germany, there was a report about a guy who is currently hassled by the authorities because he uses his rights: he consequently splits his garbage, buys only recyclable stuff - finally he "produces" enough junk to fill half a bucket of garbage per year. But he is supposed to pay for a container and a weekly garbage collection like everyone, which he disagrees. So the garbage collection company sued him to accept the container and to pay for its collection.
In this report a representative of this company said: "Garbage splitting - okay, but if anyone did it like this man, where would this lead to?!"

Here also more money is given for military stuff by the government than for human needs like health care or for education. I can't understand why killing people (and weapons are built for killing) should be more important than welfare, healing or teaching. I think life and health and education are much much more important than military stuff, so - logically - there should be spent more money for them.
When I see this Euro-Fighter junk: they spent billions for its development, and sold full-functioning MiG29 Fulcrum and other modern military stuff to Poland and other countries for one single Euro a piece! An entire fighter jet, fueled and armed, for € 1,-! Can you dig that? Are they nuts? I think they are. Totally.

If I were in charge, I would totally change the priorities in spending tax money: the main part for the people (R&D; cost-free education, cost-free health-care, better welfare, security; state-wide tariffs for each profession: that the same job with the same responsibilities and difficulties is paid with the same salary everywhere in Germany); at most half of the remaining budget for military stuff, and nothing as present for those who already have enough.

I simply can not understand how it's possible that each worker and employee has to pay taxes - which is a lot compared to the income, while huge companies which count their wins in Millions per month do not have to pay even one single cent! And worse: they even get money from the government! How sick is that? Workers financing their own job via taxes, or what?
It would be just if EVERY legal entity and legal person had to pay taxes according to their income: the more income, the more taxes to pay. The more you have, the more you have to give - also taxes. But reality shows that those who have much income pay less taxes (in percentage of their income) than those who have less income. Blatant injustice.

---

Account frozen...

Yep Thorin, that's how it is.
We, the people, mean nothing.

Jeebus, is everything just unthinking political ideology with you? Did it ever cross your mind that there is more to the world than your empty ideas about it?

Here in Germany, there was a report about a guy who is currently hassled by the authorities because he uses his rights: he consequently splits his garbage, buys only recyclable stuff - finally he "produces" enough junk to fill half a bucket of garbage per year. But he is supposed to pay for a container and a weekly garbage collection like everyone, which he disagrees. So the garbage collection company sued him to accept the container and to pay for its collection. In this report a representative of this company said: "Garbage splitting - okay, but if anyone did it like this man, where would this lead to?!"

But this is what you seem to beg for—the collective (i.e. gov’t) to take care of you. But the collective fails (even worse) if individuals aren’t forced to participate. Now, if it were just a free market system, he could just pay whatever collection company he chose to take his stuff away. The collective that people begged for destroyed his individual rights, sacrificed them to the collective.

Here also more money is given for military stuff by the government than for human needs like health care or for education. I can't understand why killing people (and weapons are built for killing) should be more important than welfare, healing or teaching. I think life and health and education are much much more important than military stuff, so - logically - there should be spent more money for them.

But once again, you seem to beg for the collective to take care of you. If you can understand why you think for yourself that social programs are more important than “killing people,” you can understand why other free thinking people think it is more important to provide for national defense—to protect the very country that provides those social programs. And, since the only standard is who at any given time can convince some politicians to take some more dough from other people to pay for their pet programs, sometimes you get health care, sometimes you get weapons systems. That is the system you support. You just disagree about what to spend the stealin's on.

When I see this Euro-Fighter junk: they spent billions for its development, and sold full-functioning MiG29 Fulcrum and other modern military stuff to Poland and other countries for one single Euro a piece! An entire fighter jet, fueled and armed, for € 1,-! Can you dig that? Are they nuts? I think they are. Totally.

This often happens with beater and obsolete military systems. Those planes aren’t worth much, but the repair parts, upgrades, and servicing contracts are worth FAR more. They dump the plane for 1 Euro to get the maintenance contracts. That's just business.

If I were in charge, I would totally change the priorities in spending tax money: the main part for the people (R&D; cost-free education, cost-free health-care, better welfare, security; state-wide tariffs for each profession: that the same job with the same responsibilities and difficulties is paid with the same salary everywhere in Germany); at most half of the remaining budget for military stuff, and nothing as present for those who already have enough.

Then you simply become Stalin. Or Mr. DPRK. You become the dictator you seem to dislike. Why? Because people disagree with your empty ideas. There is no such think as “cost-free education,” or “cost-free health-care.” Or “cost free” anything. Poor Soviet citizens paid dearly to finance your flat. That money was taken from them, by force, to make your flat cheaper. Similarly, other money was taken from you, to finance all the collective crap that you are crabbing about. For example, the collectivized garbage hauling you bitch about above.

I simply can not understand how it's possible that each worker and employee has to pay taxes - which is a lot compared to the income, while huge companies which count their wins in Millions per month do not have to pay even one single cent! And worse: they even get money from the government! How sick is that? Workers financing their own job via taxes, or what?
It would be just if EVERY legal entity and legal person had to pay taxes according to their income: the more income, the more taxes to pay. The more you have, the more you have to give - also taxes. But reality shows that those who have much income pay less taxes (in percentage of their income) than those who have less income. Blatant injustice.

Sheesh is this empty. This is very simple: corporations do not pay taxes. Ever. Nothing. Zero. Individuals pay every single cent of corporate tax. Charge the corp 5%, charge them 100%, it doesn’t matter, individual citizens pay every penny. Taxes on corporations are just another cost. Take Nike for example. To make shoes, they add of the cost of the labor, the overhead, the leather, the rubber, and the laces, and whatnot and determine the price of the shoes. If you tax them, that tax just becomes another cost, added directly to the cost of the shoes, just like leather. Which means that individual citizens pay every cent. Since tax rates are set for all corps, every shoe company has to do the same thing. So if you charge them 30%, Nike raises their shoe price by 30%, but so does Reebok, Puma, and everyone else. The price jumps by the exact amount of the tax, just as it does for the amount of rubber or laces or whatever.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

You're never gunna hack it in a village rush.

You're never gunna hack it in a village rush.

I never had any intention of "hack[ing] it in a village," Graeme.

You keep your guns out of my face and I'll keep mine out of yours and we'll get along swimmingly... 8^]

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

You're never gunna hack it in a village rush.

I never had any intention of "hack[ing] it in a village," Graeme.

You keep your guns out of my face and I'll keep mine out of yours and we'll get along swimmingly... 8^]

No probs m8, just like to bait people to see what I catch. All health and wealth to you and yours.

Jeebus, is everything just unthinking political ideology with you? Did it ever cross your mind that there is more to the world than your empty ideas about it?

<snip>

Here also more money is given for military stuff by the government than for human needs like health care or for education. I can't understand why killing people (and weapons are built for killing) should be more important than welfare, healing or teaching. I think life and health and education are much much more important than military stuff, so - logically - there should be spent more money for them.

But once again, you seem to beg for the collective to take care of you. If you can understand why you think for yourself that social programs are more important than “killing people,” you can understand why other free thinking people think it is more important to provide for national defense—to protect the very country that provides those social programs. And, since the only standard is who at any given time can convince some politicians to take some more dough from other people to pay for their pet programs, sometimes you get health care, sometimes you get weapons systems. That is the system you support. You just disagree about what to spend the stealin's on.

Well, I'm afraid that you'll never get people in charge who are absolutely incorruptible, who will never take money from companies to do them favors. In my opinion, most of the "democratic" government are corrupt using this definition. Isn't the weal of the people the original duty of a government? Unfortunately, they accept that politicians get paid at the same time for some CEO job and for their senator or representative job. In my opinion one position collides with the other one. Changing a verse of the Scriptures slightly: You can't serve the Mammon and the country. You will either serve the Mammon or the country. So I think, each of them in government should quit all of their industrial posts to be full-time representatives.
If I had the money for a bunch of lawyers, I would sue half of our government - and (I'm afraid) at least half of our industry for bribery. The industry because they bribe the representatives, and the representatives because they accept the posts and the money.

When I see this Euro-Fighter junk: they spent billions for its development, and sold full-functioning MiG29 Fulcrum and other modern military stuff to Poland and other countries for one single Euro a piece! An entire fighter jet, fueled and armed, for € 1,-! Can you dig that? Are they nuts? I think they are. Totally.

This often happens with beater and obsolete military systems. Those planes aren’t worth much, but the repair parts, upgrades, and servicing contracts are worth FAR more. They dump the plane for 1 Euro to get the maintenance contracts. That's just business.

beater? Obsolete? The Eurofighter had worse data at everything than the MiG-29, though the MiG-29 was 10 years older. It would have been much much cheaper for Germany to buy planes instead of develop a new one which showed up to become a flop. If something is working, and works fine, why spend money to "re-invent the wheel"?

If I were in charge, I would totally change the priorities in spending tax money: the main part for the people (R&D; cost-free education, cost-free health-care, better welfare, security; state-wide tariffs for each profession: that the same job with the same responsibilities and difficulties is paid with the same salary everywhere in Germany); at most half of the remaining budget for military stuff, and nothing as present for those who already have enough.

Then you simply become Stalin. Or Mr. DPRK. You become the dictator you seem to dislike. Why? Because people disagree with your empty ideas. There is no such think as “cost-free education,” or “cost-free health-care.” Or “cost free” anything.

I mean with "cost-free education": paid 100% by the community, without the students or their parents having to pay extra fee for studying. In my opinion, no parents should have to pay that their kids can attend a school. No student should have to pay for education. Okay, except for the books and materials.
And I imagine "cost-free health-care" as being fully paid by the fees of the health-care insurances plus the communities. So no-one who have to go to the physician or dentist or any other medical treatment had to pay once more for the treatment itself.

I simply can not understand how it's possible that each worker and employee has to pay taxes - which is a lot compared to the income, while huge companies which count their wins in Millions per month do not have to pay even one single cent! And worse: they even get money from the government! How sick is that? Workers financing their own job via taxes, or what?
It would be just if EVERY legal entity and legal person had to pay taxes according to their income: the more income, the more taxes to pay. The more you have, the more you have to give - also taxes. But reality shows that those who have much income pay less taxes (in percentage of their income) than those who have less income. Blatant injustice.

Sheesh is this empty. This is very simple: corporations do not pay taxes. Ever. Nothing. Zero. Individuals pay every single cent of corporate tax. Charge the corp 5%, charge them 100%, it doesn’t matter, individual citizens pay every penny. Taxes on corporations are just another cost. Take Nike for example. To make shoes, they add of the cost of the labor, the overhead, the leather, the rubber, and the laces, and whatnot and determine the price of the shoes. If you tax them, that tax just becomes another cost, added directly to the cost of the shoes, just like leather. Which means that individual citizens pay every cent. Since tax rates are set for all corps, every shoe company has to do the same thing. So if you charge them 30%, Nike raises their shoe price by 30%, but so does Reebok, Puma, and everyone else. The price jumps by the exact amount of the tax, just as it does for the amount of rubber or laces or whatever.

[/quote] I think that there should be no legal difference between a person and a "legal entity": They have money? They have to pay taxes for it. They wanna have others pay for them? They will be punished. Simply as that.
If I were in Charge (even as "dictator"! ) I would force them to pay their taxes - and to stay in the country. I would judge "legal entities" and their representatives the same way I'd judge normal persons. The representatives of the companies fully responsible for what the company is doing.

---

Account frozen...

Well, I'm afraid that you'll never get people in charge who are absolutely unbribable, who will never take money from companies to do them favors. In my opinion, most of the "democratic" government are corrupt using this definition. Isn't the weal of the people the original duty of a government? Unfortunately, they accept that politicians get paid at the same time for some CEO job and for their senator or representative job. In my opinion one position collides with the other one. Changing a verse of the Scriptures slightly: You can't serve the Mammon and the country. You will either serve the Mammon or the country So I think. each of them in government should quit all of their industrial posts to be full-time representatives.

I don't know what this has to do with anything. Be it bribery (wrong) or force (wrong) the net effect is that the individual was sacrificed to the collective. And therefore he has no "right" (as you use the term) to do as he pleases or chooses. His only "right" is to pay the collective, as he found out.

If I had the money for a bunch of lawyers, I would sue half of our government - and (I'm afraid) at least half of our industry for bribery. The industry because they bribe the representatives, and the representatives because they accept the posts and the money.[/quotes]
Which illustrates your naivete. The system protects itself. What it does is not illegal, it is unprincipled. The only principle is that it is OK to initiate force against others when you agree with it in order to force them to pay for stuff that you like that they otherwise would not have chosen to.

[quote]beater? Obsolete? The Eurofighter had worse data at everything than the MiG-29, though the MiG-29 was 10 years older. It would have been much much cheaper for Germany to buy planes instead of develop a new one which showed up to become a flop. If something is working, and works fine, why spend money to "re-invent the wheel"?

Poor choice of words. But it was a 10 year old airframe, and the point still stands: Those planes aren’t worth much, but the repair parts, upgrades, and servicing contracts are worth FAR more. They dump the plane for 1 Euro to get the maintenance contracts. That's just business.

I mean with "cost-free education": paid 100% by the community, without the students or their parents having to pay extra fee for studying. In my opinion, no parents should have to pay that their kids can attend a school. No student should have to pay for education. Okay, except for the books and materials.

Which, again, is just collectivism. There always has to be the money to run the collective and the bureaucrats and the system you want, so by it's very nature it consumes more than the cost of the service you want, in this case, education. Be that as it may, you are still forcing people to pay for what they don't want. You force those without kids to pay for your kids. You take part of what they save for retirement (or food or whatever) to pay for your education program. In return, they take greatly from you (and your kids) to pay for weapons systems and the Stasi and the CIA.

EVERY student DOES pay for their education. They pay dearly for it. They just don't pay directly to the skool that educates them. Just as they pay for the weapons systems you despise, they just don't pay directly for that either. Now imagine if you hadn't forced them to pay for either one. They could choose to pay directly what they wanted. There would be FAR more affordable skools and almost no MiGs or nuclear weapons--because rare indeed is the parent that will pay for part of a MiG and sacrifice his child's education to it.

And I imagine "cost-free health-care" as being fully paid by the fees of the health-care insurances plus the communities. So no-one who have to go to the physician or dentist or any other medical treatment had to pay once more for the treatment itself.

Same thing here. They pay dearly for your "cost-free" health care, they just don't pay for it directly. And the money that comes out of their hides, doesn't only pay for the health care, it pays for the collective to enforce it, and the bureaucrats to run it, and those people have no incentive whatsoever to cut costs.

I think that there should be no difference between a person and a "legal entity": They have money? They have to pay taxes for it. They wanna have others pay for them? They will be punished. Simply as that. If I were in Charge (even as "dictator"! ) I would force them to pay their taxes - and to stay in the country. I would judge "legal entities" and their representatives the same way I'd judge normal persons.

This is naive as well. You can't force them to do anything. If you drive the costs up (which is all you are doing) they simply cease to produce and the net result is that you get less tax revenue. You can't force them to earn, so you cannot force them to stay. If you cannot force them to stay, they leave, further worsening your problem. They will *always* "have others pay for them" because money and costs are fungible. Taxes, tariffs, fees, whatever you call them are just costs, like leather, rubber, laces, eyelets, et cetera. You can't punish them for passing costs onto the consumer because that is the ONLY thing that ANY corporation does.

"Legal entities" are presently judged as normal persons NOW. They are protected for the same reason individuals are. You ideas would just give you the something worse than the DPRK. An utter abortion, with human beings crushed under the iron heel of your collective.

Even here your hypocrisy shows badly. You say "I would force them to pay their taxes..." yet you complain about the collectives that exist now using gov't force against YOU. Initiating force is WRONG, whether you do it, or whether the collective you begged for does it against someone else when you agree with it.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...