Let's pull out the old CP/M discs and see if we can get that to run (-: Oh yeah, it's almost impossible to find a 5.25" drive anymore, and 3.5" are not far behind. Wonder if I could make a CP/M bootable CD?

---

My movie https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/502242

You'll notice that there are a few missing, and a quirky install order - I'm primarily a Luddite, and stayed with DOS/Win 3.1 for a LONG time! (until I couldn't find programs for it!) I still have a hard drive with DOS/Win 3.1 on it somewhere in my "used hard drive" stack. (I was still using it until after installing Me, by switching drive cables)

Heh, I love playing around with old software and OSes. I keep old hardware around just so I can get that original "this is what it ran like" feeling (and because I'm collecting my own little museum of sorts).

One of my faster DOS/Win machines is my old 486 (an upgrade chip known as the Am5x86DX 133 using an AMD 486 chip) with 18MB of RAM (maxed out [yes, that's 18MB! Four 30pin 4MB SIMMs and 2MB soldiered onto the motherboard]). I had it running Windows 95 for the longest time, but it runs like a dog on that old chip so I put PC DOS 7 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on it. Runs great! Sometimes I like to take out the Am5x86DX 133 chip and run the original Intel 80486SX 25MHz chip that I overclocked to 33MHz.

Ah, good times...

You mean the caps on those old PCs haven't gone bad? Neat. Right now I was working on a neighbors Dell Dimension 8400 PC, It has an Intel P4 EM64T cpu in It @ 3.0GHz w/HT, sata and 1GB ram, It just needs an OS Setup CD. oh pooh(No not the pooh here I might add). I don't know If she even has an ISP anymore, Dell wants some info I don't currently have before they will help Me or Her, I'll just have to talk to My neighbor when She gets home.

---

Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST

You mean the caps on those old PCs haven't gone bad? Neat. Right now I was working on a neighbors Dell Dimension 8400 PC, It has an Intel P4 EM64T cpu in It @ 3.0GHz w/HT, sata and 1GB ram, It just needs an OS Setup CD. oh pooh(No not the pooh here I might add). I don't know If she even has an ISP anymore, Dell wants some info I don't currently have before they will help Me or Her, I'll just have to talk to My neighbor when She gets home.

Nope. All the caps are still good. I also have a couple 386's and a 286 that still runs as good as the day they were first manufactured.

I hate it when you agree to help somebody else with their system and they don't have everything they need to allow you to do the job. Of course, it's even worse with some manufacturers (Dell included) when they don't even include the OS disc as part of your purchase anymore! You have to ask for it if you want it! I bought my girlfriend a Dell Inspiron E5505 and it didn't come with the OS disc. We were busy for a long time after the purchase, but by the time we got around to calling Dell, they told us we have to call within 14 days to get the disc. Anything after that, and you're S.O.L.

I'm glad I build all my computers. 8-)

---

Same here. I just got done giving my 2 486's which still have full time duty their six months cleanouts and service inspections and nbo sogns of cap degradations at all.

Interestingly enough, one of mine is an Am5x86 DX-100 and the other is a i486 DX-66. Only the Intel uses the 30 pin SIMMs, and boy was it hard to find them awhile back when I was looking to take its 32 MB maximum. The AMD uses 72(?) pin.

The Intel started out as a 33, but got a DX-50, then the 66 as stage upgrades when I found them at a local independant computer shop dirt cheap (something like 5 bucks each as I recall).

With what you can expect from the major PC makers today in service and support, amen to that when it comes to building your own. ;-)

At least then you know who to blame when it screws up! :-)

Alinator

Same here. I just got done giving my 2 486's which still have full time duty their six months cleanouts and service inspections and nbo sogns of cap degradations at all.

Interestingly enough, one of mine is an Am5x86 DX-100 and the other is a i486 DX-66. Only the Intel uses the 30 pin SIMMs, and boy was it hard to find them awhile back when I was looking to take its 32 MB maximum. The AMD uses 72(?) pin.

The Intel started out as a 33, but got a DX-50, then the 66 as stage upgrades when I found them at a local independant computer shop dirt cheap (something like 5 bucks each as I recall).

With what you can expect from the major PC makers today in service and support, amen to that when it comes to building your own. ;-)

At least then you know who to blame when it screws up! :-)

Alinator

Yeah that's sure true, I can only blame Myself for not getting bigger psus for My 3 newest PCs, and the right NB upgrade for the 3rd one. No more Noctua NB(NC-U6) heatsink for Me, It didn't even come with springs like the HR-05 does. The Dell has or had XP Home on It.

---

Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST

if you like good antic and samples from Intel,AMD and others CPU makers, one of my buddies has a cool website, with pictures:

http://www.engineering-sample.com/

he is a great collector of CPU, I myself has a great collection of Intel's CPUs, including some very rare parts ... obviously, i passed on the other one ;)

my favorit one is the Pentium Pro 200Mhz, i like the "gold side" of it :)

I find the CPUs of the past beautiful, and I can't stop being amazed when I think of the integration we are having, year after year:
In 45nm, you could line up 150 transistors in the diameter of a red cell(7µm) !
amazing!

who?

Golden rules for using Vista:

1) don't try on old hardware
2) make sure you have at least a Core 2 DUO (not solo)
3) if you plan to do 3D gaming, plan for the super high end, or pass
4) if you plan on doing video only, 945 or 965 are good enough, no need to spend a lot of $ on a video card.
5) connectivity should be via Ethernet or wireless from last year.
6) on laptop, Centrinos are ok, check your graphics chip compatibility.
7) don't try if you don t have a dual core, otherwise, you ll be waiting! Vista has a lot of back ground task that will freeze a single core.
8) good luck :)
myself, i love vista, on Quad core, it is smooth like silk, I got a 8800 nvidia, it rocks! under supreme commander, in 2500 x 1600 plus a side monitor at 1600x1200 :)
who?

I think u can run anything with that setup >.>
Im about to get an AMD 54 3700+ which is pretty fast for me, but it isnt anymore :'(

At work we have it running on a Dell GX-270 and a Dell GX-620 w/HT. Each has only 1 gig of ram and was not "Vista Compatable" when built. The 270 is only 2.66ghz and the 620 is 3.0ghz. Each runs IE7 just fine and generally runs fine but it has no external programs on it. They both do have Office 2003 on them and that runs fine too. Obviously the 620 is faster than the 270, but both run fine for a business environment.

---

if you like good antic and samples from Intel,AMD and others CPU makers, one of my buddies has a cool website, with pictures:

http://www.engineering-sample.com/

he is a great collector of CPU, I myself has a great collection of Intel's CPUs, including some very rare parts ... obviously, i passed on the other one ;)

my favorit one is the Pentium Pro 200Mhz, i like the "gold side" of it :)

I find the CPUs of the past beautiful, and I can't stop being amazed when I think of the integration we are having, year after year:
In 45nm, you could line up 150 transistors in the diameter of a red cell(7µm) !
amazing!

who?

Thanks for the link who? Some interesting processors at that site. The Zilog 4004 was pretty cool. A processor with 16 pins! Brings me back to my early days of Motorola 6502 and Zilog Z-80 8-bit processors. There wasn't a processor speed war back then as everybody's CPU was slower than a turtle. The battle was for functionality and storage. Processor speeds were around 1 to 5 MHz. The processor speed wars might have started when the "turbo mode" 8 MHz chips started showing up . . .

---

if you like good antic and samples from Intel,AMD and others CPU makers, one of my buddies has a cool website, with pictures:

http://www.engineering-sample.com/

he is a great collector of CPU, I myself has a great collection of Intel's CPUs, including some very rare parts ... obviously, i passed on the other one ;)

my favorit one is the Pentium Pro 200Mhz, i like the "gold side" of it :)

I find the CPUs of the past beautiful, and I can't stop being amazed when I think of the integration we are having, year after year:
In 45nm, you could line up 150 transistors in the diameter of a red cell(7µm) !
amazing!

who?

Thanks for the link who? Some interesting processors at that site. The Zilog 4004 was pretty cool. A processor with 16 pins! Brings me back to my early days of Motorola 6502 and Zilog Z-80 8-bit processors. There wasn't a processor speed war back then as everybody's CPU was slower than a turtle. The battle was for functionality and storage. Processor speeds were around 1 to 5 MHz. The processor speed wars might have started when the "turbo mode" 8 MHz chips started showing up . . .

Intel also had a 4 bit chip known as the 4040 or something I think, It was used in of all things, A Street Light.

---

Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST

Intel also had a 4 bit chip known as the 4040 or something I think, It was used in of all things, A Street Light.

I do believe that was the 4004. I believe this was their first chip and was intended to go into a calculator. The next chip was the 8008 followed by the 8080, then 8085 and finally 8086 (with the crippled 8088 getting all the IBM lovin'). I think it was the 8008 8bit chip that was used in street "stop and go" lights, and it was Microsoft, who were originally going to call themselves Traff-O-Data, who were going to write software for it and be in control of the world's automobile traffic software.


Thanks for the link, Who? I already knew of that site, but it's a great find for anybody out there, like me, who likes to view all that old stuff.

I'm a big fan of old x86 compatible CPUs (I have very extensive knowledge in the area with many books explaining in great detail each CPU generation - and I keep those books in pristine condition.), but I prefer mine to be inside systems that are in working condition.

My ultimate long term goal is to have a CPU from every generation (and in that generation, have the fastest available), and even some from different revisions. Such as the three revisions of the original Pentium. You had the 5V Pentiums that ran hot, at 60MHz and 66MHz, I'd want the 66MHz variation (and I'm still looking for a system with this chip). Then there's the 3.3V Pentium which topped off at 200MHz, and finally the split voltage Pentium MMX which topped off at 233MHz with a 266MHz laptop counterpart (though I believe it can be retro-fitted to a desktop).

I do collect both Intel and AMD, and eventually I'd like to extend that to other x86 compatible chips such as IBM/Cyrix, Via (which is who bought Cyrix), IDT Winchip (I have one of these), NexGen (who AMD bought) and there's a couple others.

However, due to the massive span out there, I'm focusing only on the main flagship chips. I am not collecting Celeron, Sempron or Duron chips (though I do have a Duron and it happens to be the fastest one released).

There's a few other conditions/rules to my museum, but you get the gist of it.

(I can go on and on all day if someone doesn't stop me about x86 chips! All the functions, what their capabilities were, when they were released.... see? I'm doing it again.)

---

(I can go on and on all day if someone doesn't stop me about x86 chips! All the functions, what their capabilities were, when they were released.... see? I'm doing it again.)

Easy big fella . . . :-)

Brock

---

The invention of the microprocessor goes to intel: http://www.intel.com/museum/online/hist_micro/hof/index.htm

the 4004 was the 1st microprocessor, in 1971.

just want to give back the 4004 to Andy, Robert, and Gordon.
what a vision! what a step for man kind!

who?

Puhlees,

It's one thing to be pysch'ed about the outfit you work for, but give it a rest.

If wasn't for the pioneering work Noyce and Moore did while at Fairchild and others working in parallel in basic IC technology, Intel wouldn't have existed in the first place.

The truth of the matter is TI and Intel were in a virtual dead heat, and TI holds the patent. It's common knowlege that Intel and TI cross licensed technology during the '70's, with Intel paying TI royalties on the basic microprocessor patent.

Hardly something they would have done if they had been "first".

This is not say they haven't done more than their share of innovation over the years, and their contribution to computer technology is huge by any standard of measurement. However their biggest claim to fame is their vision of where the technology could lead was way ahead of the competition, but it still took IBM to put them center stage and establish their rise to dominance.

But they are not gods, and this constant shilling and pontificating on the glories of Intel is starting to get old. Especially when you start bending history to suit the picture.

Alinator

Puhlees,

It's one thing to be pysch'ed about the outfit you work for, but give it a rest.

If wasn't for the pioneering work Noyce and Moore did while at Fairchild and others working in parallel in basic IC technology, Intel wouldn't have existed in the first place.

The truth of the matter is TI and Intel were in a virtual dead heat, and TI holds the patent. It's common knowlege that Intel and TI cross licensed technology during the '70's, with Intel paying TI royalties on the basic microprocessor patent.

Hardly something they would have done if they had been "first".

This is not say they haven't done more than their share of innovation over the years, and their contribution to computer technology is huge by any standard of measurement. However their biggest claim to fame is their vision of where the technology could lead was way ahead of the competition, but it still took IBM to put them center stage and establish their rise to dominance.

But they are not gods, and this constant shilling and pontificating on the glories of Intel is starting to get old. Especially when you start bending history to suit the picture.

Alinator

Funny this thread. I think the Chinese are really responsible for the earliest computing device.
All kind of nonsense don't you think?
The real importance in todays world is what have you done in the last few pico seconds.
At the moment Intel is on top... but I dont think that they can remain there forever, but they are having a very good run at the moment.

---

When we finally figure it all out, all the rules will change and we can start all over again.

Puhlees,

It's one thing to be pysch'ed about the outfit you work for, but give it a rest.

If wasn't for the pioneering work Noyce and Moore did while at Fairchild and others working in parallel in basic IC technology, Intel wouldn't have existed in the first place.

The truth of the matter is TI and Intel were in a virtual dead heat, and TI holds the patent. It's common knowlege that Intel and TI cross licensed technology during the '70's, with Intel paying TI royalties on the basic microprocessor patent.

Hardly something they would have done if they had been "first".

This is not say they haven't done more than their share of innovation over the years, and their contribution to computer technology is huge by any standard of measurement. However their biggest claim to fame is their vision of where the technology could lead was way ahead of the competition, but it still took IBM to put them center stage and establish their rise to dominance.

But they are not gods, and this constant shilling and pontificating on the glories of Intel is starting to get old. Especially when you start bending history to suit the picture.

Alinator

Funny this thread. I think the Chinese are really responsible for the earliest computing device.
All kind of nonsense don't you think?
The real importance in todays world is what have you done in the last few pico seconds.
At the moment Intel is on top... but I dont think that they can remain there forever, but they are having a very good run at the moment.

actually, the 1st computing device: "smothing that actually does calculate without of the assistance of human brain"
It was build by Mr Blaise Pascal, here , it was call the Pascal machine, and nobody argue that it is the 1st computing device.
French people invented picture, the 1st human fly (Clement Ader, not the american rip off brothers), the 1st human leaving ground safely(mongolfier brothers), 1st Picture(Joseph Nicéphore Niépce) , 1st motion picture(louis Lumiere), all the mathmatics of modern DCT/iDCT MPEG videos (Bezier), electricity: Doctor Ampere, (Volta was a duke of Napoleon, and was french citizen, since Italy was part of napoleon empire), Invension of Radio-activity, surrendering to germans ;-), and many other great discoveries, invention of modern medecin (Professor Pasteur), including the understanding of the micro-biology, HIV detection. Notice that all of those great invention went to public domain, because in France, we look for science for science, not for money. At the end of day, you 'll remember those people, like Pasteur, for his generosity, who remember the name of the guy who broke the human genome? nobody!!!! he did it for money! Great inventors gives his science for free to human kind.

Regards from on of the illuminated citizen of the land of science: France


The 1st computing device is French, nobody can argue this, Pascal machine process and give result using only mecanical power! Chinese balls stuff requires a human to do stuff, not computing!


who?

Puhlees,

It's one thing to be pysch'ed about the outfit you work for, but give it a rest.

If wasn't for the pioneering work Noyce and Moore did while at Fairchild and others working in parallel in basic IC technology, Intel wouldn't have existed in the first place.

The truth of the matter is TI and Intel were in a virtual dead heat, and TI holds the patent. It's common knowlege that Intel and TI cross licensed technology during the '70's, with Intel paying TI royalties on the basic microprocessor patent.

Hardly something they would have done if they had been "first".

This is not say they haven't done more than their share of innovation over the years, and their contribution to computer technology is huge by any standard of measurement. However their biggest claim to fame is their vision of where the technology could lead was way ahead of the competition, but it still took IBM to put them center stage and establish their rise to dominance.

But they are not gods, and this constant shilling and pontificating on the glories of Intel is starting to get old. Especially when you start bending history to suit the picture.

Alinator

Funny this thread. I think the Chinese are really responsible for the earliest computing device.
All kind of nonsense don't you think?
The real importance in todays world is what have you done in the last few pico seconds.
At the moment Intel is on top... but I dont think that they can remain there forever, but they are having a very good run at the moment.

actually, the 1st computing device: "smothing that actually does calculate without of the assistance of human brain"
It was build by Mr Blaise Pascal, here , it was call the Pascal machine, and nobody argue that it is the 1st computing device.
French people invented picture, the 1st human fly (Clement Ader, not the american rip off brothers), the 1st human leaving ground safely(mongolfier brothers), 1st Picture(Joseph Nicéphore Niépce) , 1st motion picture(louis Lumiere), all the mathmatics of modern DCT/iDCT MPEG videos (Bezier), electricity: Doctor Ampere, (Volta was a duke of Napoleon, and was french citizen, since Italy was part of napoleon empire), Invension of Radio-activity, surrendering to germans ;-), and many other great discoveries, invention of modern medecin (Professor Pasteur), including the understanding of the micro-biology, HIV detection. Notice that all of those great invention went to public domain, because in France, we look for science for science, not for money. At the end of day, you 'll remember those people, like Pasteur, for his generosity, who remember the name of the guy who broke the human genome? nobody!!!! he did it for money! Great inventors gives his science for free to human kind.

Regards from on of the illuminated citizen of the land of science: France


The 1st computing device is French, nobody can argue this, Pascal machine process and give result using only mecanical power! Chinese balls stuff requires a human to do stuff, not computing!


who?

Ah yes a fine culture and different. I lived in Maisons-Laffitte for a while about 20 some years ago, working on project between Honeywell and Bull. I was told by my office mate (Michel Gendreau with whom I have unfortunately lost contact.) the reason why they chose the rooster as the symbol for the region.

Now be sure to remember your thoughts on greatness when it is time to share your code;)

Happy crunching and remember Fame is brief illusion so savor the day.

---

When we finally figure it all out, all the rules will change and we can start all over again.

Puhlees,

It's one thing to be pysch'ed about the outfit you work for, but give it a rest.

If wasn't for the pioneering work Noyce and Moore did while at Fairchild and others working in parallel in basic IC technology, Intel wouldn't have existed in the first place.

The truth of the matter is TI and Intel were in a virtual dead heat, and TI holds the patent. It's common knowlege that Intel and TI cross licensed technology during the '70's, with Intel paying TI royalties on the basic microprocessor patent.

Hardly something they would have done if they had been "first".

This is not say they haven't done more than their share of innovation over the years, and their contribution to computer technology is huge by any standard of measurement. However their biggest claim to fame is their vision of where the technology could lead was way ahead of the competition, but it still took IBM to put them center stage and establish their rise to dominance.

But they are not gods, and this constant shilling and pontificating on the glories of Intel is starting to get old. Especially when you start bending history to suit the picture.

Alinator

Funny this thread. I think the Chinese are really responsible for the earliest computing device.
All kind of nonsense don't you think?
The real importance in todays world is what have you done in the last few pico seconds.
At the moment Intel is on top... but I dont think that they can remain there forever, but they are having a very good run at the moment.

actually, the 1st computing device: "smothing that actually does calculate without of the assistance of human brain"
It was build by Mr Blaise Pascal, here , it was call the Pascal machine, and nobody argue that it is the 1st computing device.
French people invented picture, the 1st human fly (Clement Ader, not the american rip off brothers), the 1st human leaving ground safely(mongolfier brothers), 1st Picture(Joseph Nicéphore Niépce) , 1st motion picture(louis Lumiere), all the mathmatics of modern DCT/iDCT MPEG videos (Bezier), electricity: Doctor Ampere, (Volta was a duke of Napoleon, and was french citizen, since Italy was part of napoleon empire), Invension of Radio-activity, surrendering to germans ;-), and many other great discoveries, invention of modern medecin (Professor Pasteur), including the understanding of the micro-biology, HIV detection. Notice that all of those great invention went to public domain, because in France, we look for science for science, not for money. At the end of day, you 'll remember those people, like Pasteur, for his generosity, who remember the name of the guy who broke the human genome? nobody!!!! he did it for money! Great inventors gives his science for free to human kind.

Regards from on of the illuminated citizen of the land of science: France


The 1st computing device is French, nobody can argue this, Pascal machine process and give result using only mecanical power! Chinese balls stuff requires a human to do stuff, not computing!


who?

The Greeks over 2000 years back invented a Mechanical computer
Antikythera mechanism
The Antikythera Mechanism is now understood to be dedicated to astronomical phenomena and operates as a complex mechanical "computer" which tracks the cycles of the Solar System.

Sorry who? But the Greeks did make a computer first, They even had steam power to a limited degree and the Romans knew how to make internal plumbing too.

So 1st is not really appropriate.

Oh and the French were known once as the Franks as You may or may not know(around 400AD), So We are both of Frankish ancestry, A Germanic tribe It turns out, facinating stuff really.

---

Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST

actually, the 1st computing device: "smothing that actually does calculate without of the assistance of human brain"
It was build by Mr Blaise Pascal,

<snip for brevity, check OP for unabridged version>

Regards from on of the illuminated citizen of the land of science: France


The 1st computing device is French, nobody can argue this, Pascal machine process and give result using only mecanical power! Chinese balls stuff requires a human to do stuff, not computing!


who?

I guess you're forgetting about people like:

Schultz
Dickinson
Abbas Ibn Firnas
Cayley
DaVinci
Newton
Franklin
Leeuwenhoek
etc.

As far as the comment about the altruism of French scientists, keep in mind that for photography at least, the French government bought the patent from Daguerre and released it to the public domain. As I suspected, the French may be romantics, but they're pretty practical when it come to realizing it takes hard cold cash to survive in this world.

One other nit to pick, one cannot invent a physical property such as radioactivity, one can merely discover it.

In any event, I'm wondering now how we got off on a score keeping adventure about scientific discovery. The simple truth is rarely are advances made in isolation, they build on previous discovery and invention, and applies even in the case of genius. I merely took exception to a specific single case of revisionist history.

As far as the Genome Project goes, I assume you're referring to Mr. Venter? However I don't think you can really give credit to any one individual "cracking" the human genome, given the scope of the problem. Also, you're correct that the motivation of Celera's involvement was to "fast track" the path to commercial exploitation of the results, but like photography, the US government stepped in and put paid to the idea of patenting genome sequences. In this case though, I'm pretty sure the cash flow was negative for Celera.

Alinator

[snip]

Thanks for the link who? Some interesting processors at that site. The Zilog 4004 was pretty cool. A processor with 16 pins! Brings me back to my early days of Motorola 6502 and Zilog Z-80 8-bit processors. There wasn't a processor speed war back then as everybody's CPU was slower than a turtle. The battle was for functionality and storage. Processor speeds were around 1 to 5 MHz. The processor speed wars might have started when the "turbo mode" 8 MHz chips started showing up . . .

Intel also had a 4 bit chip known as the 4040 or something I think, It was used in of all things, A Street Light.

it was the 4004 and that was the very first microprocessor! (cpu on a chip)
It only handled 4 bits at a time, BTW

---

.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...

it was the 4004 and that was the very first microprocessor! (cpu on a chip)
It only handled 4 bits at a time, BTW

As long as you qualify that as first general purpose microprocessor.

TMS-1000 was brought to market as the heart of the first TI calculators, and not released as a GP chip until several years later.

This is what I meant about Intel's vision being their strongest suit. They could see they might be able to sell more chips faster if they didn't do the worrying about what you could use them for.

Alinator