History will show you, if you are serious about knowing.

I am not pro, or anti, anything. I just observe.

To give a satisfactory decision as to the truth it is necessary to be rather an arbitrator than a party to the dispute.

- Aristotle

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

To give a satisfactory decision as to the truth it is necessary to be rather an arbitrator than a party to the dispute.

- Aristotle

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Such a great quote. I love it.

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History will show you, if you are serious about knowing.

History has only shown me one thing:

People are fail-able creatures... Who dwell on the past, yet never learn from it... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

History will show you, if you are serious about knowing.

History has only shown me one thing:

People are fail-able creatures... Who dwell on the past, yet never learn from it... ;)

Somehow it seems rather ironic that you, of all people, would say such a thing.

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The earth is the centre of the universe.
The sun is the centre of the universe.
The earth is flat.
There are only four elements.

Statements from the times of ancient/classical Greece and due to Greek philosophers, some of which was borrowed by the Catholic Church, apparently w/o Scriptural basis.
Now, shall we really discuss history?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Statements from the times of ancient/classical Greece and due to Greek philosophers, some of which was borrowed by the Catholic Church, apparently w/o Scriptural basis.
Now, shall we really discuss history?

Put another way ... we owe much to the Greeks. But, let's be realistic. Some of it was right and some of it was dead wrong! Some of you quote Aristotle or Carl Sagan: I think Carl Sagan was wise enough that he would've recognized the value of my first three sentences in this new post. Some of you are blaming the baggage of ignorance on religion ... dig deeper and you'll see ignorance has many sources. BTW, if any of you have read Al Gore's Earth in the Balance, he also discusses the baggage Western thought has inherited from ancient/classical Greek times.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

The Catholic bible's story of Genesis clearly puts the Earth at the center of purpose for the Universe if not outrightly at the physical center. It does seem to imply that the Earth is the center of all creation though. Subject to interpretation of course. There are also passages in the bible which seem to indicate that if you can get high enough, on a building or mountain for example, you could see all the lands of the Earth. That only works for a flat Earth. Sorry, but I can't can't quote chapters or verses or psalms, I haven't read the bible in many decades.

I don't really recall the bible recognizing chemistry in any way, everything could be turned into anything else by prayer or sacrifices to higher powers. Water into wine and such. The bible is full of outright violations of physics and chemistry as they are understood today, bushes that burn but are not consumed (and talk!) for example. Those references are generally passed off as "miracles" and that's supposed to be the end of that.

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Some of you are blaming the baggage of ignorance on religion ... dig deeper and you'll see ignorance has many sources. BTW, if any of you have read Al Gore's Earth in the Balance, he also discusses the baggage Western thought has inherited from ancient/classical Greek times.

Actually, I would say that religion is the baggage of ignorance, not the source, at least historically. Religion may be partially to blame for continued ignorance in the modern world though.

When I see religious propagandists going before audiences, in person and on TV, and telling them evolution is BS because if it was true then we would see new creatures popping out of peanut butter jars and the audiences are buying it, I have to conclude religion helps foster ignorance. Of course you have to be pretty ignorant to buy into such an argument in the first place, but the propagandists work at them slowly and continuously until they can't think rationally anymore.

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The Catholic bible's story of Genesis

...is no different than any other Bibles story of Genesis... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The Catholic bible's story of Genesis

...is no different than any other Bibles story of Genesis... ;)

With your snipping as is I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean they all imply that the Earth is at the center of the Universe? Possibly true, I'm not familiar with all religions.

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Follow the white rabbit.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

With your snipping as is I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean they all imply that the Earth is at the center of the Universe?

I was simply pointing out the fact that all versions of the Bible are identical...

The Bible doesn't 'imply' anything... It says what it means and it means what it says... Not to be confused with the parables found within... No science involved...

However, he's a little snippet from the Qur'an which does contain scientific clues:

21:33 It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all the celestial bodies swim along, each in its rounded course.

Earth the center of the universe? Flat earth? Based on your newly found religious knowledge, you decide... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

With your snipping as is I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean they all imply that the Earth is at the center of the Universe?

I was simply pointing out the fact that all versions of the Bible are identical...

The Bible doesn't 'imply' anything... It says what it means and it means what it says... Not to be confused with the parables found within... No science involved...

However, he's a little snippet from the Qur'an which does contain scientific clues:

21:33 It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all the celestial bodies swim along, each in its rounded course.

Earth the center of the universe? Flat earth? Based on your newly found religious knowledge, you decide... ;)

Hmmm, if all versions are identical then there are no versions.

And as we all know, there are different versions so ... You work it out.

A good thing to do in these matters is to start from the beginning.

Check out Sumerian cuneiform tablets and work your way forward.

:)

For clues: http://www.exoticworldart.com/ufodbase/index.php?action=collapse;c=3;sa=expand#3

See sections:

- Human Origins
- Ancient Engineering
- Ancient Architecture
- Symbols and Icons Research
- Ancient Text Study Room
- Science Study Room
- Archaeological Study Room
- Legends and Gods


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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

With your snipping as is I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean they all imply that the Earth is at the center of the Universe?

I was simply pointing out the fact that all versions of the Bible are identical...

The Bible doesn't 'imply' anything... It says what it means and it means what it says... Not to be confused with the parables found within... No science involved...

However, he's a little snippet from the Qur'an which does contain scientific clues:

21:33 It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all the celestial bodies swim along, each in its rounded course.

Earth the center of the universe? Flat earth? Based on your newly found religious knowledge, you decide... ;)

That only states that things follow a rounded course. Doesn't state anything about the Earth itself, those courses could all be rounded about the Earth.

The word "bible" is a generic word, at it's basic level it just means "A book about something". Today, in the western world it is often used to refer to the Christian "bible", but it can be used in other contexts as well. I once had a book that was called the "Hydraulics's Bible".

On a forum such as this it's a good idea to be specific ;-)

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Very true Mray.

On a forum such as this it's a good idea to be specific ;-)

I know... Reading comprehension does seem to be an issue around here... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

For a modern Catholic view on evolution I suggest reading "The Human Phenomenon", by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, SJ, a Jesuit priest and paleontologist, discoverer of the Peking man. I do not know if it has been translated into English from the original French edition, Seuil, 1955. An English collection of his works can be found in "The Appearance of Man", Collins, 1965.
Tullio

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Thanks, tullio.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Guess I don't have the "God gene".

I still don't know when science became the enemy, but at least now I know when religion became the enemy:

When ordinary people found out that the 'God gene' couldn't be reproduced in a lab...

Thanks! I'm glad we had this conversation... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .