I can't believe this thread has now needed to be spawned again and is now on it's 6th installment.

This is the thread for all things " creepy ".
Bigfoot
Loch Ness Monster
Chupacabra
Chuck
UFOs

Chupreneebay?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Since our resident "I think most clearly out of all of you" obviously didn't read version ( 5 ) of your thread, KM, here we go again. ;)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20061028/sc_space/theshadyscienceofghosthunting

The Shady Science of Ghost Hunting

Benjamin Radford

LiveScience.com Sat Oct 28, 8:45 AM ET

Ghosts are big business. For entities that may or may not exist, they seem to be everywhere, especially during Halloween.

They are in books and on television shows, such as CBS's "The Ghost Whisperer" and NBC's "Medium." Dozens of "ghost hunter" organizations exist across North America, small groups of self-styled ghost buffs who lurk around reputedly haunted places, hoping to glimpse or photograph a spirit.

The most famous ghost hunters are two plumbers who moonlight as paranormal investigators, seen in the popular Sci-Fi Channel reality show/soap opera series "Ghost Hunters." They go to haunted places and find "evidence" of ghosts such as cold spots, photographic anomalies called orbs, and other such spookiness.

The two featured investigators, Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson, are proudly blue-collar workers, not egghead Ph.D. scientists, which adds to their strong "regular guy" appeal.

Top 10 Scary Creatures / Top 5 Haunted Houses / Pumpkin Shortage?

Where are the ghosts?

While one doesn't need to be a scientist to search for ghosts, the pair (like most ghost hunters) could benefit greatly from a little critical thinking. They claim to be skeptics but are very credulous and seem to have no real understanding of scientific methods or real investigation. (Audiences don't seem to wonder why these "expert" ghost hunters always fail: Even after two seasons and over ten years of research, they still have yet to prove that ghosts exist!)

Though most ghost investigators' worst crime is wasting time, sometimes they make nuisances of themselves and even break the law.

In October 2005, three ghost hunters in Salem, Massachusetts, were arrested for trespassing on private property in search of ghosts. They had entered an abandoned hospital reputed to be haunted. The group was so busy looking for spirits they failed to notice the police station across the street; all three were arrested, fined, and sent home. Trespassing or vandalizing ghost hunters have also been arrested in cemeteries in Illinois, Connecticut, and other states.

Ghost detectors

When it comes to searching for ghosts, you'd think that only the most reliable methods would be used in an attempt to get solid evidence for something as mysterious and elusive as a spirit. Yet in ghost hunting, often the less scientific the methods and equipment, the more likely a researcher is to find "evidence" for ghosts.

Ghost hunters use a variety of creative—and dubious—methods to detect their quarry's presence, including psychics. Psychics not only claim to locate ghosts but also to communicate with the spirits, who unfortunately don't provide any useful or verifiable information from the afterlife [see a séance].

Virtually all ghost hunter groups claim to be scientific, and most give that appearance because they use high-tech scientific equipment such as Geiger counters, Electromagnetic Field (EMF) detectors, ion detectors, and infrared cameras [and sensitive microphones]. Yet the equipment is only as scientific as the person using it; you may own the world's most sophisticated thermometer, but if you are using it as a barometer, your measurements are worthless.

Just as using a calculator doesn't make you a mathematician, using a scientific instrument doesn't make you a scientist.

Devices that don't work

In 2003, while I was investigating a haunted house in Buffalo, New York, the owner of the house asked me what equipment I planned to use. He had glanced in my duffel bag, which contained two cameras, a tape recorder, notebooks, a tape measure, a flashlight, and a few other items. Perhaps he was expecting to see a Negative Ionizer Ghost Containment backpack like the kind Bill Murray wore in Ghostbusters.

An EMF meter is among the most common devices used by ghost hunters today. I spoke to Tom Cook, of TomsGadgets.com, a British purveyor of "scientific" paranormal kits for the enterprising (and gullible) investigator. Starter kits begin at £105 (US$180) and reach up to £500 (US$850) for a custom ghost-hunting kit. (Negative Ionizer Ghost Containment packs were not listed.)

I asked Cook what, exactly, the scientific rationale was behind the equipment he sold.

"At a haunted location," Cook said, "strong, erratic fluctuating EMFs are commonly found. It seems these energy fields have some definite connection to the presence of ghosts. The exact nature of that connection is still a mystery. However, the anomalous fields are easy to find. Whenever you locate one, a ghost might be present.... any erratic EMF fluctuations you may detect may indicate ghostly activity."

In the final analysis, Cook admitted, "there exists no device that can conclusively detect ghosts."

Uncomfortable reality

The uncomfortable reality that ghost hunters carefully avoid—the elephant in the tiny, haunted room—is of course that no one has ever shown that any of this equipment actually detects ghosts.

The supposed links between ghosts and electromagnetic fields, low temperatures, radiation, odd photographic images, and so on are based on nothing more than guesses, unproven theories, and wild conjecture. If a device could reliably determine the presence or absence of ghosts, then by definition, ghosts would be proven to exist. I own an EMF meter, but since it's useless for ghost investigations—it finds not spirits but red herrings—I use it in my lectures and seminars as an example of pseudoscience. The most important tools in this or any investigation are a questioning mind and a solid understanding of scientific principles.

The ghost hunters' anti-scientific illogic is clear: if one area of a home is colder than another, that may indicate a ghost; if an EMF meter detects a field, that too may be a ghost; if dowsing rods cross, that might be a ghost. Just about any "anomaly," anything that anyone considers odd for any reason, from an undetermined sound to a "bad feeling" to a blurry photo, can be (and has been) considered evidence of ghosts.

I was even at one investigation where a ghost supposedly caused a person's mild headache. Because the standard of evidence is so low, it's little wonder that ghost hunters often find "evidence" (but never proof) of ghosts.

Reality check

The whole idea of ghosts runs into trouble as soon as a little logic is applied.

There's not even agreement on what ghosts are—or might be. A common claim is that ghosts are spirits of the dead who have been wronged or murdered. Let's inject some real-world statistics into that assumption and see what we get.

If murder victims whose killings remains unsolved are truly destined to walk the earth and haunt the living, then we should expect to encounter ghosts nearly everywhere. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, roughly a quarter of all homicides remains unsolved each year. (In fact, fewer homicides are solved now than in the past; in 1976, 79 percent of homicides were cleared, down to 64 percent in 2002.) There are about 30,000 homicides in America each year.

Using the most recent numbers, that's about 11,000 unsolved murders per year, and 110,000 over the course of only ten years, and probably well over million over the course of the twentieth century in America alone.

Where are all the ghosts?

And why aren't they helping to bring their killers to justice, with so many crimes unsolved? Why would they hang out in scary mansions instead of directing police to evidence that would avenge their murders?

For that matter, why are ghosts seen wearing clothing? It's one thing to suggest that a person's spirit has a soul that can be seen after death; but do shoes, coats, hats, and belts also have souls? Logically, ghosts should appear naked. The fact that they don't suggests that people's ideas of what ghosts are—and what they look like—are strongly influenced by social and cultural expectations. (For an excellent discussion of this, see Richard Finucane's book "Ghosts: Appearances of the Dead & Cultural Transformation.")

If ghosts exist, why are we no closer to finding out what they really are, after so much research?

The evidence for ghosts is no better today than it was a year ago, a decade ago, or a century ago. Ultimately, ghost hunting is not about the evidence (if it was, the search would have been abandoned long ago). Instead, it's about having fun with friends, telling ghost stories, and the enjoyment of pretending you are searching the edge of the unknown. (It's also about making money selling "Ghost Hunters" T-shirts, books, and videos.) Ghost hunters may be spinning their wheels, but at least they are enjoying the ride.

Benjamin Radford, of Skeptical Inquirer science magazine, has investigated ghosts and the paranormal for over a decade; you can read one of his haunted house investigations here.

Full Frightening Coverage

* What Halloween is Really About
* Top 5 Haunted Places in America
* Halloween's Top 10 Scary Creatures
* Higher Education Fuels Stronger Belief in Ghosts
* Vampires a Mathematical Impossibility, Scientist Says
* Candy Fears are Mere Halloween Phantoms
* Halloween Too Scary for Some Kids
* In Search of the Real Dracula
* Pumpkin Shortage?

* Original Story: The Shady Science of Ghost Hunting

Visit LiveScience.com for more daily news, views and scientific inquiry with an original, provocative point of view. LiveScience reports amazing, real world breakthroughs, made simple and stimulating for people on the go. Check out our collection of Science, Animal and Dinosaur Pictures, Science Videos, Hot Topics, Trivia, Top 10s, Voting, Amazing Images, Reader Favorites, and more. Get cool gadgets at the new LiveScience Store, sign up for our free daily email newsletter and check out our RSS feeds today!

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I don't mean to be redundant or annoying, but I am frankly suprised at well, the lack of talking about aliens on the SETI boards...

Or are just all those threads buried back behind casual day to day chatter?

I mean, I don't necessarily think a conspiracy thread is a great place to discuss rational et ideas... but still.

I buy into that there are aliens. Not sure if it's a BAD conspiracy. Would the government be really doing us a favor to tell us? I mean if they did... chaos, etc. Man just isn't read for it. Now I do think maybe, just maybe they could be priming us up to become ready. Like go back 60 years ago, and aliens was a weird idea. After star trek, star wars, battlestar galactica, etc. etc. it's almost become a casual idea. I think maybe when it becomes less threatening to human belief structure that the governments might be willing to show it. Hence films like "Signs" that try to tell people that a belief in god and aliens aren't necessarily contradictory, etc. The more the merrier.

So maybe my conspiracy, is a conspiracy to get man ready to know the ufo conspiracy. Like gradual introductions into the idea over 50 years. I'd say we are far more receptive today of it than 50 years ago. I just wonder if it'll take another 50 years to get us perfectly ready.

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I watch all those alien specials on the history channel. That's me, I'm the target audience! The balding conspiracy geek... and proud of it!

voip

I don't mean to be redundant or annoying, but I am frankly suprised at well, the lack of talking about aliens on the SETI boards...

This thread is just the place if you want to talk about aliens. That's the kind of thing I bet it up for. The title of the thread is a little misleading.

This is the place for things that don't fall within the realm of normal science. Religion is generally kept to the religion thread, but aliens....bigfoot....and other such things are common conversation in here. I kinda think that's why I have had to restart the thread 5 times....lol

If you want to discuss aliens....we can. I am sure that at least a few of the denizens of this thread will have something to say about the subject.

As for me, I think there are other life forms in this Universe. The way I see it...the Universe is just too vast for us to be the only life form.

Voip...if you wish...click on the Forums link in my signature...that will take you to our team forums. I have a thread set up on there that is for UFO's and aliens. You don't have to join the team to take part in our forums.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

This is the place for things that don't fall within the realm of normal science. Religion is generally kept to the religion thread, but aliens....bigfoot....and other such things are common conversation in here. I kinda think that's why I have had to restart the thread 5 times....lol

Obviously, there are going to be times when the belief in the paranormal, religion or normal science as you call it are going to intersect (whether that intersection is in conflict or whatever else). No need to restrict things this way.

Here, here's something for Chuck's benefit, since he seems to believe I have a religious agenda.

What about all those aliens that die before we meet them? Will they burn in Hell for not accepting Christ? Will aliens even be in need of redemption?

Wait, I shouldn't even ask these questions! I have a closed mind and an agenda! Ha!

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

I can't believe this thread has now needed to be spawned again and is now on it's 6th installment.

This is the thread for all things " creepy ".
Bigfoot: a.k.a. Sarge

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Obviously, there are going to be times when the belief in the paranormal, religion or normal science as you call it are going to intersect (whether that intersection is in conflict or whatever else). No need to restrict things this way.

Methinks you may be misunderstanding what I am saying. Then again, I may not be clear in my posting.

I am in no way saying that beliefs and science won't intersect. I am not trying to restrict things.

Then again...people seeing it as a restriction could very well be the reason that some folks are more comfortable posting here than in other threads. They don't have to worry about being ridiculed for not falling in line with " normal " science.

At any rate...science is allowed in here...as long as " someone " doesn't decide to be insulting when speaking about it...

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

At any rate...science is allowed in here...as long as " someone " doesn't decide to be insulting when speaking about it...

I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it too often. ;)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

At any rate...science is allowed in here...as long as " someone " doesn't decide to be insulting when speaking about it...

I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it too often. ;)

LMAO You have yet to be insulting about it.

* That I have seen anyway * :-)

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

At any rate...science is allowed in here...as long as " someone " doesn't decide to be insulting when speaking about it...

I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it too often. ;)

LMAO You have yet to be insulting about it.

* That I have seen anyway * :-)

Can I try a few times, with increasing intensity, just to see if it will be recognizable? :)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

At any rate...science is allowed in here...as long as " someone " doesn't decide to be insulting when speaking about it...

I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it too often. ;)

LMAO You have yet to be insulting about it.

* That I have seen anyway * :-)

Can I try a few times, with increasing intensity, just to see if it will be recognizable? :)

Sure...I will let ya know when ya start to sound like the person I was referring to...lol

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

At any rate...science is allowed in here...as long as " someone " doesn't decide to be insulting when speaking about it...

I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it too often. ;)

LMAO You have yet to be insulting about it.

* That I have seen anyway * :-)

Can I try a few times, with increasing intensity, just to see if it will be recognizable? :)

Sure...I will let ya know when ya start to sound like the person I was referring to...lol

Belief in the paranormal is a scourge on humanity!!!

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Belief in the paranormal is a scourge on humanity!!!

Ya know....now that I think about it.....

Belief in God would pretty much walk hand in hand with belief in the Paranormal, wouldn't it?

________________________________________________

As for the quote....DING DING DING!!! We have a WINNER!!!! LMAO

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Belief in the paranormal is a scourge on humanity!!!

Ya know....now that I think about it.....

Belief in God would pretty much walk hand in hand with belief in the Paranormal, wouldn't it?

________________________________________________

As for the quote....DING DING DING!!! We have a WINNER!!!! LMAO

My friend, you have replaced paranormal with supra-dupra-agendalicious-normal. S'ok, though. It's easy to make that mistake. And now, ladies and gentleman, a word from ... Jeffrey!

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Belief in the paranormal is a scourge on humanity!!!

Ya know....now that I think about it.....

Belief in God would pretty much walk hand in hand with belief in the Paranormal, wouldn't it?

I guess so.

I'll post a link over at your forum, I think it's too much for this board. ;-D

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Belief in the paranormal is a scourge on humanity!!!

Ya know....now that I think about it.....

Belief in God would pretty much walk hand in hand with belief in the Paranormal, wouldn't it?

I guess so.

I'll post a link over at your forum, I think it's too much for this board. ;-D

Go ahead and do that Fuzzy.

I do want to see where that particular line of thought will lead.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

LGM, yes, you can use your BOINC client for both projects. There was a problem with the 5.4.11 client if you crunch seti main WU's with the chicken app, as the 5.15 used here and the 5.17 used over there messed up in it. But the newer boinc clients have been repaired for that bug, so if you download the latest client 5.7.1, you won't have any problems. I don't have any problems with the 5.7.1 client at all, so it's ok, and I use the chicken app here. But the WU's over there are way faster than the chicken app, so I think Eric is about to integrate the optimization in the client that will be the stock client here.

So if you feel like, I can highly recommend crunching AP/Beta.

Thanks for the info Fuzzy. I may have a look later. I've had some probs with my PC lately, which I beleive have to do with set it up with a C: drive that has become too small. (It was ok to begin with, but I've loaded so much extra that it has become unstable)

Currently, I'm backing up about 60 Gigs of data, just in case it crashes. As you can imagine, this is going to take several hours. After that, I have to catch up with my college assignments, which are becoming pressing.

I've had a few interruptions (The oven, fridge/freezer, PC and dishwasher have all gone on the blink this last fortnight) Not to mention physiotherapy on my shoulder and the car having a carburretor problem. Thank God we have 2 cars! Mind you, the 4 wd is very thirsty, and just keeping it fuelled has hurt the budget. It never rains, but it pours, I suppose. lol

On the plus side, I woke up breathing this morning!! lololol

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On the plus side, I woke up breathing this morning!! lololol

Glad to hear that LGM. ;)

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Calm Chaos Forum...Join Calm Chaos Now

LGM, yes, you can use your BOINC client for both projects. There was a problem with the 5.4.11 client if you crunch seti main WU's with the chicken app, as the 5.15 used here and the 5.17 used over there messed up in it. But the newer boinc clients have been repaired for that bug, so if you download the latest client 5.7.1, you won't have any problems. I don't have any problems with the 5.7.1 client at all, so it's ok, and I use the chicken app here. But the WU's over there are way faster than the chicken app, so I think Eric is about to integrate the optimization in the client that will be the stock client here.

So if you feel like, I can highly recommend crunching AP/Beta.

Thanks for the info Fuzzy. I may have a look later. I've had some probs with my PC lately, which I beleive have to do with set it up with a C: drive that has become too small. (It was ok to begin with, but I've loaded so much extra that it has become unstable)

Currently, I'm backing up about 60 Gigs of data, just in case it crashes. As you can imagine, this is going to take several hours. After that, I have to catch up with my college assignments, which are becoming pressing.

I've had a few interruptions (The oven, fridge/freezer, PC and dishwasher have all gone on the blink this last fortnight) Not to mention physiotherapy on my shoulder and the car having a carburretor problem. Thank God we have 2 cars! Mind you, the 4 wd is very thirsty, and just keeping it fuelled has hurt the budget. It never rains, but it pours, I suppose. lol

On the plus side, I woke up breathing this morning!! lololol

You're wellcome. :-)

Yes, and don't remember your son and his mother, you have them too.

Have you created partitions, so the c drive has become too small or is it the whole drive that's too small? If it's the latter, then use an external drive or install a drive more.

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"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

On the plus side, I woke up breathing this morning!! lololol

That's always a bonus....lol

Although with the way I had been feeling over the last week or so...waking up breathing wasn't exactly a good thing.

I am feeling a lot better now though. :-)

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome