I lived in the United States back then and fully recall that your figures and supposed facts are not 'facts' at all............

Next you're gonna be telling me that gas wasn't 20 cents a gallon and that postage stamps weren't a penny a piece, right?

As far as the two income families go... The only reason that both parents had to start working in the first place was because salaries had declined so much, and continue to do so... Not to mention, the ever rising cost of living... ;)

As a former stamp collector, it is easy to refute that postage stamps were a penny a piece 25 years ago. Around 1986, the price was about 15 cents a piece. Remember the many Oliver Wendell Holmes stamps?

Postage stamps haven't cost that little (a penny) since around the time just after the Revolutionary War.

Boy, ppl on both sides of this debate seem to have limited historical awareness. ;)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

25 years ago an acre of land was $500...

In the late 70s, when my Grandfather died, his prime farmland in the Des Moines, Iowa, area (near Bondaurant, if you are interested) was valued for the estate death tax at an average of $2,000/acre. And house lots have not been $500/acre in the 40 years that I have been paying sporadic attention to such things.

$100 for a flat? You couldn't buy that in a crack house.

Really? I was able to rent a decent 1 bedroom apt. for $300/mo. in 1996.
A few years before that, a decent 2 bedroom apt. for $385/mo., split between two people. Obviously, after dividing by 2, that's under $200 and getting us closer to the $100/mo. range suggested.

Sarge, the comment of $100 for a flat was obviously intended to represent the total amount of the lease, which is three times less than your lowest figure of $100. You also need to take into account the area where the amounts were quoted. The same applies to house prices, as a 3000 sqft house in St Joseph, MI 25 years ago was far lower priced than the identical house in San Francisco.

Sarge, the comment of $100 for a flat was obviously intended to represent the total amount of the lease, which is three times less than your lowest figure of $100.

First, the $100 figure was not my own. I was responding to the suggestion that such a figure was unlikely, at least for a decent place, based on my own experiences. Whether for myself in a 1 bedroom apartment or in an n bedroom apartment with the cost split n ways, I have lived in decent places for $200-$300. This was from 1992 to 2000. Why then is it so unlikely that the cost of rent for some decent places 25 years ago might have been closer to $100?

Second, in my experience, most renters pay a security deposit equal to or even double one month's rent. It is incredibly rare to find a place where you can pay significantly less on a security deposit. I can think of no other interpretation of what you were getting at with referring to a lease. A lease is essentially a contract where it states the amount of the security deposit, the rent, how often it will be paid, and their expectations of you, etc. ... .

"You also need to take into account the area where the amounts were quoted. The same applies to house prices, as a 3000 sqft house in St Joseph, MI 25 years ago was far lower priced than the identical house in San Francisco."

Again, it was not a figure that I initially suggested. It was put forth by someone else. In areas surrounding a university, it is easy to see that in the immediate vicinity, a number of apartments and complexes charge exorbitant rates that the best way to save is to live with others, sometimes a large number of people. People you cannot necessarily trust to maintain a safe and peaceful living environment, pay their portion of the bills on time and so on.

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From 1965-1975 one of these babies could send a standard letter to anywhere in the US... My parents used to have spools of them laying around... 1c Stamps.

The first production Mustang, a white convertible with red interior, rolled off the assembly line in 1964 and listed for US $2,368. Keep in mind, this was an expensive sports car...

Just two 'easy to find' examples... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

You don't give your source Rush. And it is well known that Melanie Phillips is totally bonkers.

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You don't give your source Rush. And it is well known that Melanie Phillips is totally bonkers.

Sorry, TCSDaily.

Did you have any substantive comments? I mean there's a dilemma here for people who love gov't meddling.

I think the gov't shouldn't get involved in private decisions. But regardless of which side wins (gov't or skool) the niqab likely goes, and the same with the Urdu...

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

The first production Mustang, a white convertible with red interior, rolled off the assembly line in 1964 and listed for US $2,368. Keep in mind, this was an expensive sports car...

Yet again you fail. Ever tire of that?

That same car today would cost almost $16K in today's dollars. But for what? Who in their right mind would spend $16K for nearly forty year old technology (short of a collector)?

That old car was heavier, rusted easily, did not have a decent electronic radio, nor air conditioning, many safety items (air bags, crumple zones, collapseable steering column, head protection, to name a few), polluted orders of magnitude more than a 2006, used more (leaded) fuel to do so.

For approximately the same price, ($17K or so) you could get a 2006 that would have all of the above, plus an automatic transmission, power windows, locks, doors, CD player, keyless entry, larger wheels and tires, and ABS brakes.

Price changes. Today's car is significantly cheaper and significantly better in almost every way.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

From 1965-1975 one of these babies could send a standard letter to anywhere in the US... My parents used to have spools of them laying around... 1c Stamps.

Stamps for less than price of sending a "standard letter" was and are still sold, so that when sending something "non-standard" (based on size or weight or whatever), one can add these up to make the correct amount.

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Did not have a decent electronic radio

Necessary?

nor air conditioning

Necessary?

power windows

Necessary?

CD player, keyless entry

Necessary? Necessary?

I win.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

From 1965-1975 one of these babies could send a standard letter to anywhere in the US... My parents used to have spools of them laying around... 1c Stamps

It's called a "make up value" stamp.

Postage Rates since the Civil War

From 1965-1975 one of these babies could send a standard letter to anywhere in the US... My parents used to have spools of them laying around... 1c Stamps

It's called a "make up value" stamp.

Postage Rates since the Civil War

Thanks for that post, Ziggy. However, all of us should consider two/three things. First, how much do we trust the sources when we cut and paste from another site? Does this information match up with our memories? (Just how much can we trust our own memory?)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Did you have any substantive comments? I mean there's a dilemma here for people who love gov't meddling.

I think the gov't shouldn't get involved in private decisions. But regardless of which side wins (gov't or skool) the niqab likely goes, and the same with the Urdu...

Ah, I see the original source was the Daily Mail, a right wing tabloid that support Oswald Moseley and his fascists in the thirties. But you would be right in thinking that that is neither here nor there. Personally I think that people should be able to wear what they like, I never understood why men couldn't wear frocks. Sorry looks like the substantive comments have gone right out the window.

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It's called a "make up value" stamp.

Drop letters were only a penny!

The list is showing the price per ounce...

And sorry, there was no such thing as a 'make up value' stamp back then...

Something terrible happened in the 60s and 70s and things have been going downhill ever since, the proof is there, all you have to do is look... ;)


@Sarge, I hate to differ with you on this but my memory is crystal clear, and I too have a stamp collection and letters from my childhood as proof of those rates...

For everyone else, If you want proof of the values of houses automobiles rent or anything else, all one has to do is dig though the classifieds of an old newspaper from that era...

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

@Sarge, I hate to differ with you on this but my memory is crystal clear, and I too have a stamp collection and letters from my childhood as proof of those rates...

Jeffrey, I am sure there is much we differ on and that's not the point. We are welcome to differ and debate. However, what is a "drop letter"? Also, I clearly remember the 15 cent Oliver Wendell Holmes stamps. Most letters cost 15 cents to send in the late 70s or early 80s.

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what is a "drop letter"?

Usually one page in one envelope, or a postcard...

If it went above three pages, it usually required an extra one cent stamp, and as the number of pages increased, so did the amount of one cent stamps required... I can still hear my mother screaming about the price increase from a one cent stamp to a two cent stamp in the early to mid 70s, as that was the first increase since the incarnation of the postage stamp... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

That same car today would cost almost $16K in today's dollars.

Actually, it would probobly cost more... Only because it's considered to be a 'classic car'...

I'm guessing that the cars of today will never reach that status... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

what is a "drop letter"?

Usually one page in one envelope, or a postcard...

If it went above three pages, it usually required an extra one cent stamp, and as the number of pages increased, so did the amount of one cent stamps required... I can still hear my mother screaming about the price increase from a one cent stamp to a two cent stamp in the early to mid 70s, as that was the first increase since the incarnation of the postage stamp... ;)

Sorry, but I am pretty sure this is just plain wrong. Even a postcard required about 10 cents to send at that time. Check that webpage that Ziggy provided and see if it jogs your memory.

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Sorry, but I am pretty sure this is just plain wrong.

I have a postcard and a few old letters sitting right here in front of me... Like you said, don't believe everything you read on the internet... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Sorry, but I am pretty sure this is just plain wrong.

I have a postcard and a few old letters sitting right here in front of me... Like you said, don't believe everything you read on the internet... ;)

Don't take that too far. I was thinking it was not until the early 80s that the price went to 15 cents. The webpage says 1978, which seems quite reasonable to me, suggesting my memory was (only slightly) off.

On the other hand, I could say I do not believe you have the old letters and postcard in front of you. :P Besides, you haven't stated from when nor what the price of (all) the stamps on them were (in total).

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.