FOR CRUNCH3R- WE ARE ON STRIKE!!!

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kevint
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Message 328117 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 0:28:40 UTC - in response to Message 327978.  


Well, if there is no resolution or at least movement toward a resolution, you may find that many of us participating in the "strike" have no intention of coming back.


Then it would be nice if someone would tell us what would consitute a resolution.


I don't know Matt as I am not the instigator of these actions, but I think it is being worked on. Shame it had to come to this.
As long as the dev staff is taking action I will crunch - just on a lighter note than before.

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Message 328126 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 0:34:30 UTC - in response to Message 325663.  


Because of the present climate here at Seti, specifically the alienation and vilification of this projects volunteers, we have decided to go on Strike for a period of ONE WEEK, in support of Crunch3r. The level of participation will vary, depending upon each participant’s desire. Some of us will simply disable our network access. Others, I understand, are going to detach from the project entirely, and either join other projects, or simply shut their machines down.

Our team (SETI.USA) is organizing a work stoppage @Seti for a week effective 00:00 UTC 6/5/06 due to latest developments at seti, including what has happened w/Crunch3r. We are asking for your support.
*snip*
Regards, Daniel.


Daniel, I will not be supporting the "strike" because I believe the importance of the S@H project must be placed above the politics of its volunteers.

I did use Crunch3r's optimized clients and I found them to be much more productive than the vanilla clients and I do miss them. I'm not sure what the issue was with regards to Crunch3r's use of the 5.11 source code to compile his version of Enhanced as opposed to the source code from 5.12 upwards. Nor am I sure as to what the precise allegations of cheating for undeserved credits involved.

What I can be fairly sure of is that the disputed credit is an arbitrary number that doesn't accurately represent the amount of CPU time, results returned, the scientific usefulness of the results. The amount credit can only be used to vaguely approximate how much work a volunteer has contributed.

Therefore, arguing over credits is pointless and boycotting the project to put pressure on the overworked volunteer administrators even moreso. You will only succeed in giving the unpaid project administrators one more excuse to stop working themselves.

Yours sincerely,

-Tim

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Message 328156 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 0:51:02 UTC - in response to Message 328008.  


I have removed this post. We will post a formal list of requests very soon.

Thank you Steve, that is what we really want and/or need at this point.

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Message 328187 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 1:13:58 UTC - in response to Message 328059.  


I will take a whack at this Eric...if Berkeley would come up with a rule that only "approved" clients are allowed to be used it might go a long way towards ending this. "Approved" can mean several things..from only Berkeley apps to people like Crunch3r, Trux, TMR, etc, sending their app to Berkeley to get it approved BEFORE they distribute it. Berkeley could then modify the code slightly when non "approved" verions of the software come out nullifing any credits they would receive.


I would hate to go there, because a large number of people use the anonymous platform mechanisms on platforms we don't support or to make their own optimized builds. If I need to sign a binary everytime someone wanted to compile SETI@home, I'd be more busy than I am. The vast majority of the compiled versions available seem to do the right thing. The rest, we rely on validation and the median of three results credit allocation mechanism to remove the incentive to over-report credits.


I think that optimized versions of the software can be a help to the project because, as several people have stated, the workunits are being crunched faster and it shows that some people DO care and are even willing to go beyond the normal crunching time with their donations.


You'll get no arguments from me on that. I hope nobody has the idea that UCB disapproves of the use of optimized applications. Hell, most of the optimizations to the enhanced application came from people who developed enhanced versions of the standard app.


In the long run it could even open the doors to Berkeley letting some of these people become "employees". You are always saying how overworked you are, some of these people could provide some needed places to bounce ideas off of.


To some extent it has worked that way. Ask Tetsuji and Josef. I like to think I'm open to suggestions, but I can't always get around to everything quickly. Sometimes I don't get around to answering messages at all. Again ask Tetsuji and Josef. If I had seen Crunch3r's email, I'm not sure what I would have done with it. A couple comments on alloca() not working in exception blocks on Intel's compiler and a pre-compiled binary with no indication of what, if any, source changes were made doesn't immediately sound like a solution to the bugs we're having. I probably would have sent a one line response and asked for source. That might have been considered to Crunch3r to be as much of a slight as no response was.

I would also like to point out to everyone, should anyone have not noticed. That the another major issue, the allegations of cheating, did not come from Berkeley. As I have said, I would prefer to stay out of the flame war business. I'm also in neither direct, nor indirect control of what the moderators do. I hope they use their moderation with moderation. Maybe we need to move to a slashdot style "posters occasionally get moderation points" mechanism. But that can't happen until Matt's around to make it work.



But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.

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Message 328212 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 1:33:30 UTC - in response to Message 328187.  


But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.


Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me.

I'm ready to be surprised...

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Message 328218 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 1:38:52 UTC - in response to Message 328212.  


But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.


Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me.

I'm ready to be surprised...

Crunch3r did not post that here, someone else did after translating it from german so it did not come direct from him. But I am confident he will return the apology.

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Message 328471 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 4:55:56 UTC - in response to Message 327978.  


Well, if there is no resolution or at least movement toward a resolution, you may find that many of us participating in the "strike" have no intention of coming back.


Then it would be nice if someone would tell us what would consitute a resolution.


I will soon be posting a list of requests, by the middle of the day tomorrow (June 6th, 2006). I am caring for my terminally ill father, as as such, I did not have the time to compose the list yet. The strike was begun first, so that we could see if it got anyone's attention. It HAS. Thus, a list of requests will be published ASAP. Thanks, Eric.

Regards, Daniel.
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Message 328476 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:01:06 UTC - in response to Message 328212.  


But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.


Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me.

I'm ready to be surprised...



Eric.. You're starting to sound like Tony. You need to have your manager (Dr Dave) say something. You are not acting in a professional mannor, IMHO, but acting as a college kid that got caught in a situation you're not prepared for.
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Message 328477 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:02:10 UTC - in response to Message 328476.  


But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.


Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me.

I'm ready to be surprised...



Eric.. You're starting to sound like Tony. You need to have your manager (Dr Dave) say something. You are not acting in a professional mannor, IMHO, but acting as a college kid that got caught in a situation you're not prepared for.

Here come the demands yet again. The hell with everyone that has a life, that has a family to care for, lets just all bow down to AZwoody, the all mighty chief.
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Message 328488 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:15:53 UTC - in response to Message 328477.  


Here come the demands yet again. The hell with everyone that has a life, that has a family to care for, lets just all bow down to AZwoody, the all mighty chief.



Its a shame that you allow this forum to stop you from your family or your life.
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Message 328490 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:18:05 UTC - in response to Message 328488.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2006, 5:18:59 UTC


Here come the demands yet again. The hell with everyone that has a life, that has a family to care for, lets just all bow down to AZwoody, the all mighty chief.



Its a shame that you allow this forum to stop you from your family or your life.

Hmm, thats finny, I never said me. My kids are nicely tucked into bed, my wife is chattin with her friend, and I'm laughing at all the BS on here.

Go look in other posts. Az, demanding David A to come here and post. Rom, posting he's probably at home, taking care of his family. This was in another thread.

This is what I responded too:

Eric.. You're starting to sound like Tony. You need to have your manager (Dr Dave) say something. You are not acting in a professional mannor, IMHO, but acting as a college kid that got caught in a situation you're not prepared for.

So read a few posts below before replying and get the whole story please. Thank you.
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Message 328493 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:20:14 UTC - in response to Message 328490.  

finny or not, it was your post i was responding to.
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Message 328496 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:24:00 UTC - in response to Message 328493.  

finny or not, it was your post i was responding to.


Ok. Who cares? I answered ya didn't I? Once again, did I say I have no life? Find a post that says that. I can assure you that you won't. Thats ok though. Your just another person who types on here, just like him. Have a good night.
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Message 328513 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:36:19 UTC - in response to Message 328477.  


But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.


Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me.

I'm ready to be surprised...



Eric.. You're starting to sound like Tony. You need to have your manager (Dr Dave) say something. You are not acting in a professional mannor, IMHO, but acting as a college kid that got caught in a situation you're not prepared for.

Here come the demands yet again. The hell with everyone that has a life, that has a family to care for, lets just all bow down to AZwoody, the all mighty chief.



You really don't want to solve the problem, but attack me instead. I think I got that right, based on your post.


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Message 328515 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:38:44 UTC - in response to Message 328513.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2006, 5:39:23 UTC

But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.

Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me. I'm ready to be surprised...

Eric.. You're starting to sound like Tony. You need to have your manager (Dr Dave) say something. You are not acting in a professional mannor, IMHO, but acting as a college kid that got caught in a situation you're not prepared for.

Here come the demands yet again. The hell with everyone that has a life, that has a family to care for, lets just all bow down to AZwoody, the all mighty chief.

You really don't want to solve the problem, but attack me instead. I think I got that right, based on your post.

I have the solution! For the nominal price of one triple chocolate donut y'all can blame me!

Better make that two donuts. And some marshmallows that I can toast over my open fire.
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Message 328517 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:40:19 UTC - in response to Message 328496.  

What you mean to say is that I am yet another that does not live my life here. Many on THIS forum contribute much more time to bashing than to science. Many on THIS forum would prefer that people like myself would not waste thier time posting here. Many on THIS forum not only think that they own THIS forum but the project as well.

Reading through posts in this thread it is more than obvious who the MANY are. I think I will make the MANY happy and say that I have had enough of SETI. I do not agree with a strike. It is obvious from unprofessional posts from Eric, the restarting of problems by allowing this thread to be continued: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=31485 by the mods convinces me that nothing will be resolved. The only interest here is for the MANY that own this FORUM to be happy.

Good luck to all that are attempting to achieve something on Crunch3r's behalf. To me it now appears to be a complete waste of time.
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Message 328518 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:40:25 UTC

Why the heck is it a "demand" that the project director say "something" during a boycott of his project? Oh, I know, it's because he's not said anything since Seti/Boinc went live.

From the AP story about Rosetta:

David P. Anderson, director of the Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing, said Baker's lab has done a particularly good job of connecting the participants to the science. "Hopefully, Rosetta is setting a standard that the other projects will have to live up to if they want to hold on to their participants," Anderson said.




"do as I say, not as I do" seems to be the theme.....
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Message 328519 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 5:40:58 UTC - in response to Message 328513.  


But the allegation of being a "bald-faced liar" did come from Berkeley. And I have yet to see any resolution on that either.


Yes, and the allegation that I'm an a****** that deliberately ignored a miracle client from Crunch3r came from directly Crunch3r, and I haven't seen any resolution to that.

OK, I'm sorry that I assumed that Crunch3r was lying when he said he sent the message. Now we'll see if Crunch3r will appologize for accusations that were directed against me.

I'm ready to be surprised...



Eric.. You're starting to sound like Tony. You need to have your manager (Dr Dave) say something. You are not acting in a professional mannor, IMHO, but acting as a college kid that got caught in a situation you're not prepared for.

Here come the demands yet again. The hell with everyone that has a life, that has a family to care for, lets just all bow down to AZwoody, the all mighty chief.



You really don't want to solve the problem, but attack me instead. I think I got that right, based on your post.


I never said I don't want problems solved. You honestly think that peon's like us that "volunteer" time and computer cycles running around, "Demanding" responses are gonna get them? You gotta be smarter than you act on here. You prance around here like you know more than anyone else. Your a better programmer, you can fix the scheduler, you can fix it all. Thats all I ever see out of any of your posts. I could sit here and go through all of your message history and find that in every one of them.

Remember, this is just a forum. I don't care what anyone thinks of me, I don't take anything personal. At times its just quite amusing to see people jump through hoops, which you have demonstrated quite well.
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Message 328578 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 6:35:49 UTC - in response to Message 328052.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2006, 6:38:08 UTC

You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about.
Outrageous pomposity! Does higher RAC make you a better person in any way? Shame!

Am I the only one who feels this deserves redress??? In the recent past such crass comments as his would have been blown out of the water by dozens. Step up people!

Did I say this ? I never said nor claimed that those with lower daily credits are less valuable to the project. I said "You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about" does this mean that you are less important - NO, does this mean that I am more important, NO - what it means is simply - I CARE ABOUT MY CREDITs, those with lower credits may not.
Strange double talk here. Your statement: "You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about." You said that this person doesn't care because they have a low RAC. Those were your very own words. Then you try to reinforce/redirect this statement by saying that your high RAC reflects your care for the project substantiated by your financial investments in gear and donations. Immediately after that you state that a low RAC contributer may not care. Sorry, dude, but you're busted. Better to apologise now.

Any talk of the thousands you've invested in crunching machines does nothing to mitigate your implication that high RAC equals care for the project and low RAC equals less or no care (than you) for the project.

The very foundation of this project is that anyone with a few spare cycles can make a worthy contribution to this effort. If a person has only a single, old, computer, they contribute with as much validity as a person who has many cutting edge rigs. That person with a single aged computer can, and usually does, care as much or more than you do about their contribution.

I'm reminded of the old story about the rich man who drops a bag of gold in the church donation box. Later, a poor man drops in a single penny - all he has. The rich man sees himself as the more worthy contributer. He is soon shamed since his bag of gold is a small portion of his wealth and the poor man's single penny is a proprtionately huge amount to give away. Which man cared more?

Or are you saying that if a person cared as much as you do for the project, they'd build a bunch of rigs as you have? Is the amount of financial investment your measure of caring?

Like I said, you're busted, dude.

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Message 328590 - Posted: 6 Jun 2006, 6:52:45 UTC - in response to Message 328578.  

You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about.
Outrageous pomposity! Does higher RAC make you a better person in any way? Shame!

Am I the only one who feels this deserves redress??? In the recent past such crass comments as his would have been blown out of the water by dozens. Step up people!

Did I say this ? I never said nor claimed that those with lower daily credits are less valuable to the project. I said "You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about" does this mean that you are less important - NO, does this mean that I am more important, NO - what it means is simply - I CARE ABOUT MY CREDITs, those with lower credits may not.
Strange double talk here. Your statement: "You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about." You said that this person doesn't care because they have a low RAC. Those were your very own words. Then you try to reinforce/redirect this statement by saying that your high RAC reflects your care for the project substantiated by your financial investments in gear and donations. Immediately after that you state that a low RAC contributer may not care. Sorry, dude, but you're busted. Better to apologise now.

Any talk of the thousands you've invested in crunching machines does nothing to mitigate your implication that high RAC equals care for the project and low RAC equals less or no care (than you) for the project.

The very foundation of this project is that anyone with a few spare cycles can make a worthy contribution to this effort. If a person has only a single, old, computer, they contribute with as much validity as a person who has many cutting edge rigs. That person with a single aged computer can, and usually does, care as much or more than you do about their contribution.

I'm reminded of the old story about the rich man who drops a bag of gold in the church donation box. Later, a poor man drops in a single penny - all he has. The rich man sees himself as the more worthy contributer. He is soon shamed since his bag of gold is a small portion of his wealth and the poor man's single penny is a proprtionately huge amount to give away. Which man cared more?

Or are you saying that if a person cared as much as you do for the project, they'd build a bunch of rigs as you have? Is the amount of financial investment your measure of caring?

Like I said, you're busted, dude.



Just shows the lack of common sense by some at Seti/Boinc. There are the cheeleaders and then there are those those that see what's really happening.

"he's cheating, and it made me get a pimple, so it's all his fault!"
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