Woody

Silly me, have been trying to collect statistics for Eric to help fix a couple of issues... So Yes I may have had my head burried in the sand... But when have you looked at a couple "thousand" Results and worked to document what is happening...

Then why do You, not do something "Positive?" That would make more sense...

If you are looking for someone that can make a difference it is not Dr A... His hands are tied with BOINC... IF you are talking Seti then three name come to mind... Eric, Matt and Rom... But depending on what you are asking about, is who will answer...

How You ask is important, also how they will answer... If You were called stupid or a moron, would You EVER Answer? Reality sez, they would never respond... You can rant and rave all you want... IT would only prove that you have a problem, that could also prove that you are "obsessive". If you want attention then present the FACTS, and the documentation...

Then You can help BOINC, not to mention Seti BOINC move ahead...

Woody

That will teach me to go take a weekend off...

It seems your response is 10 days after the post. Must have been a long weekend!

The lack of donations "could" be due to the lack of paypal, but also "could" be due to people that see what's happening to this project..

Do I want to see Seti Fail? NOOOOOOOOOOO!

Will it fail with the way it's being run? I have to say "yes". And that's the point I made in the donations thread! A cutback in donations would speak louder than any strike in downloading work.

The folks that are the ones to donate, are also the ones that will read these forums. Many crunchers just set up machines and walk away, and don't even know what going on for months, but those that donate money, are also the ones that have an opinion.

Pappa, the only thing you show me, is that the Mods are blind-sighted when it comes to the project, and that they tend to hide things that say anything about problems.

Heck, CA does it all the time!

Why do other projects have the "person in charge" active in the forums, yet Dr Dave has yet to make a post here (that really ID's who he is)?

This project is dying, and it's not due to the size of the user base, paypal, or the phase of the moon! It's due to the way the project is managed.

I know you'll hide this post, as even though it's about donations, it's not something you agree with.

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Pappa, the only thing you show me, is that the Mods are blind-sighted when it comes to the project, and that they tend to hide things that say anything about problems.

Heck, CA does it all the time!

You are so full of it Woody, I have never deleated any thread in NC
and we Don't hide things that say anything about problems.

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Pappa, the only thing you show me, is that the Mods are blind-sighted when it comes to the project, and that they tend to hide things that say anything about problems.

Heck, CA does it all the time!

You are so full of it Woody, I have never deleated any thread in NC
and we Don't hide things that say anything about problems.

Read my Statement CA. Do you want me to again post the email I got from you when you hid my post because you considered it negitive, even though it was on topic and did express a different view than yours!

I will, but I know you'll just hide it again! That's the way you can prove your point, by not letting others see what you wrote!

You seem to be playing the "squirm game". You can't pull back the email you sent me, but will just hide it when it shows up here!

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Off Topic

For the most part the discussion "here" belongs in another thread! The one
about Moderation. The last couple of entries are So "Off Topic" it is sickening. You both should know better!

I find it sad that you attempt to push your views off on people that know none of the history. It Still Appears that you have personal issues and some hidden motivation for wanting Seti to Fail. You have my sympathy, and my desire that what is bothering you can be worked out. I truely suspect that the answer you seek is not "Here."

So, You have exercised your Freedom of Speach! It was and still is "Off Topic." Please exercise that Freedom of Speach Elsewhere!

If you really have an axe to grind (using the cliche) you are more than welcome to email my public Seti email al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com

On Topic

In the mean time there are still two thirds of the Donations to raise... A portion of the Donations helped to get the MultiBeam Receiver in place! That is "Success and Value" for what was Donated.

Thank You, for those that have Donated

Regards

Pappa

---

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Pappa I sincerely apologize to you, I think this thread needs to be unstickied
and a new one created, I would love nothing more than to delete all off topic posts in this thread but then I would be accused of wrong doing.

Please let me know what you would like to do.o.

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CA

Thank YOU

I would suspect that Fuzzy, should be the one to request that it be "unstickied" and allowed to create a new thread. At points in time I have tried to interject what I felt, should be common sense... "WE" Want Seti BOINC to Move Ahead! That is Job One! There is still a lot of work to be done. It has been noted that the "Data" that so many have Crunched is being used by others... It Means that they Users that "they" have Donated Time, Computers and Money are Important to the Seti Project! It Means, They are part of something that is "Larger" than the small scope that is sometimes seen here. Users Helping Users is Always Important! Some of the discussion here needed to be said to allow people to get things off their chest, but it is now time to get back to work! I hope you got the answers you needed or at least relief from things for why you decided to leave. Now back to, Users Helping Users! Seti is Important!

There are so many things to do and so little time, The Staff has been very Busy!

Pappa I sincerely apologize to you, I think this thread needs to be unstickied
and a new one created, I would love nothing more than to delete all off topic posts in this thread but then I would be accused of wrong doing.

Please let me know what you would like to do.o.

Pappa

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

For those reading this thread, please understand that with all the problems that signaled discontent among the crunching public in other threads (not the handfull of mods), that a more effective way to send a message to UCB than to go "on strike" would be to read the forum and consider what was said before donating.

The subject WAS donations.

Would you donate to the Red Cross if you found out that volinteers were going on strike or simply leaving the orginization? Would you not want to consider the situation for your self and make a decision?

That's why my post was moderated here.

And now, it seems this thread will be sent to drift off into the sunset. So be it...

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Woody

Off Topic

At times I have seen you make some "intelligent" posts, and ask some difficult questions... There is nothing wrong with that... What I do object to is when things spread into areas where they do not belong. As near as I can calculate, I have around a Million Plus Computer Hours Crunching Seti. I have worked my tail off helping others getting started both in Classic and Here... Silly Me (Not Really) helped Crunch3r. I Still Am Helping Eric work on the Cross Project Credit Calibration. That is because I Believe in Seti BOINC!

Can anyone tell me what is truly "tangible" in any Distrubited Computing Project? The only thing tangible is "I paid for the computers and the electricity!" I have also made monitary Donations... I make donations to other things also as I have resources... It is because I believe! Yes Hope still exists in the World! I would hate to see the world "Without Hope!"

So the Bottom Line is that "We are part of the Problem or We are part of the Solution!"

On topic

Now as you keep "coming back," it suggests that You Hope there are answers and that you will return... Beyond Donations that are badly needed, We all do what "We" can do!

For those reading this thread, please understand that with all the problems that signaled discontent among the crunching public in other threads (not the handfull of mods), that a more effective way to send a message to UCB than to go "on strike" would be to read the forum and consider what was said before donating.

The subject WAS donations.

Would you donate to the Red Cross if you found out that volinteers were going on strike or simply leaving the orginization? Would you not want to consider the situation for your self and make a decision?

That's why my post was moderated here.

And now, it seems this thread will be sent to drift off into the sunset. So be it...

Regards

Pappa

---

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CA

Until Fuzzy requests this thread be "unstickied" it should remain.

Pappa I sincerely apologize to you, I think this thread needs to be unstickied
and a new one created, I would love nothing more than to delete all off topic posts in this thread but then I would be accused of wrong doing.

Please let me know what you would like to do.o.

Regards

Pappa

---

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Woody

So the Bottom Line is that "We are part of the Problem or We are part of the Solution!"

(way off topic)

And from my perspective, being "part of the solution" does not mean only doing what some may consider "positive" to the project. Would things ever change if there weren't a few that said "but things could be better", even if they're not exactly sure what that change could be?

Those that raise issues can be as much a part of the solution, or even more so, than those that think that everything is going well.

Case in point: Einstein. They just moved to the S5 data. Did a beta with the projects S4 aptimized apps, and that logic got fed into the STD app for S5. There's a bit of grumblimg over there, as "it takes longer, and my RAC is impacted", but in general, seems that it didn't cause a big problem. The project folks gave fair warning, including instruction when it was seen that the app_info and beta app could cause problems.

Everyone, from the head of the project on down, kept crunchers informed on what was going on.

Seti, with enhanced, kind of (IMHO) did the exact opposite. The various optimized apps from many (not only crunch3r) added confusion, and it was never address by the folks in charge at UCB on the forums, as to what the impact would be. Nor was getting optimizations included in the STD app. Lets say that prior to enhanced, seti would have released to the crunching public, a beta, with optimizations, through a process like Einsteins. And let's say those optimizations were included in the STD app for enhanced. That would have been good, would it have not?

This is a view that does not favor UCB, but does it not address atleast "part of the solution"? The way that Seti manages it's client source is a complete mess (IMHO), and the whole "crunch3r" battle wouldn't have been an issue if UCB had kept a better control on the code, and also made an effort to release STD optimized apps. Not in favor of UCB, but my opinions might be "part of the solution".

Why don't I post in Q&A? See the Einstein forums.There's a thread about "S5 completion times", and I posted simple details about what I was seeing on a specific machine, and yet, I had a few there that attacked the messanger, and not the message. Do you not think the same thing would happen if I provided a simple answer to a simple question here? As part of the solution, I choose not to start a "chicken fight" by simply posting an answer.

For Seti to continue, IMHO, here's a few suggestions:

1) Dr Dave needs to post in the forums, under his own name. That would diffuse 90% of the issues. Matt was off with the band when things blew up, and Eric couldn't really speak about what was happening, yet Dr Dave seemed to me more out of the loop than Matt.

2) follow the Einstein method of communications. Let users know what REALLY happening, and not have it diluted.

3) release STD optimized apps (like Einstein)

If anything, #1 will help to increase donations, as in my years with Seti/Boinc, I've had the feeling that Dr Dave doesn't really care whats going on in the forums, and I think he should - like the leaders of the other boinc projects. See, I am part of the solution!

---

Case in point: Einstein. They just moved to the S5 data. Did a beta with the projects S4 aptimized apps, and that logic got fed into the STD app for S5. There's a bit of grumblimg over there, as "it takes longer, and my RAC is impacted", but in general, seems that it didn't cause a big problem. The project folks gave fair warning, including instruction when it was seen that the app_info and beta app could cause problems.

Everyone, from the head of the project on down, kept crunchers informed on what was going on.

Seti, with enhanced, kind of (IMHO) did the exact opposite. The various optimized apps from many (not only crunch3r) added confusion, and it was never address by the folks in charge at UCB on the forums, as to what the impact would be. Nor was getting optimizations included in the STD app. Lets say that prior to enhanced, seti would have released to the crunching public, a beta, with optimizations, through a process like Einsteins. And let's say those optimizations were included in the STD app for enhanced. That would have been good, would it have not?

If you were subscribed to the boinc_opt mailing list, you would know that the SETI folks have been doing exactly that. Eric Korpela has already merged some of the changes from my OS X optimized clients into the main SETI codebase, with many of the other changes to follow.

Even better, with the 5.17 release, which will be going into circulation in SETI Beta soon, Eric has laid the groundwork for third parties to incorporate their optimized versions of core SETI functions into the source code, at which point the application will benchmark the functions and automatically select the versions that run the fastest (and sufficiently accurately) on a particular computer.

(Incidentally, if you were going to respond that they should have told us, Eric posted this in the SETI forums as well.)

Woody

Start an New Thread! This is as you said Way Off Topic, and yes I use heavy "snippage."

Woody

So the Bottom Line is that "We are part of the Problem or We are part of the Solution!"

(way off topic)

And from my perspective, being "part of the solution" does not mean only doing what some may consider "positive" to the project. Would things ever change if there weren't a few that said "but things could be better", even if they're not exactly sure what that change could be?

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

If Berkeley can't get a PayPal system going what about the new GBuy?

---

me@rescam.org

If Berkeley can't get a PayPal system going what about the new GBuy?

I don't think the issue is "Paypal" as "Paypal" as much as it is getting the banking issues straightened out.

I suspect that departments and projects at the university are not allowed to have separate bank accounts -- that the money has to go through "proper channels" and those proper channels are just now finding out about PayPal.

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Ned

Actually I recieved a bit of information stated that people had sent donations to "donors (at) ssl.berkeley.edu." They were not "fulfilled," but the volume of requests is what started getting attention. So the bottom line is when the bank account and the email address that will respond is selected... Then PayPal can happen... I am surprised that it is not in the Seti Store, someone had to designate a bank account/address for the funds to go to... We just have to be patient...

Probably there is one bank account and tons of spreadsheets that say this money went there and other money went over there...

If Berkeley can't get a PayPal system going what about the new GBuy?

I don't think the issue is "Paypal" as "Paypal" as much as it is getting the banking issues straightened out.

I suspect that departments and projects at the university are not allowed to have separate bank accounts -- that the money has to go through "proper channels" and those proper channels are just now finding out about PayPal.

Pappa

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

You all are living in a dream. The whole "next donation drive" isn't real, as the project "shot it's wad" with the email a few months ago, and donations have dropped back to noise levels since.

While I've see posts that infer that there will be another "donation drive", I've not seen anything about it from someone that would really know.

The donations are at about $260k, but what's needed is about $750k for 2006, and we are 1/2 thru 2006.

And Dr Dave is crunching CPDN it seems,per the WSJ, and not Seti.

That gives many a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about how the project director is suporting this project.

I thought that someone with some sense was going to make this thread "unsticky" a while back so it would fade into obscurity!

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Woody

Somehow I knew that you would show up here! I have to ask once again "which you did not answer." What has gotten under your skin so "Badly" that you have to attack Seti Boinc?

You did not answer then and I ask once again! For the last time. The choice is Yours, You can express what you feel is wrong... You can heaven forbid, even interject solutions... Some of what is seen here actually gets incorporated...

So while I have defended your right to "freedom of speach," I need an answer as to why you continue to attack the Seti Project. Facts as you see them is fine (Please Create a New Thread)... Otherwise please let people try to do what they can do...

Pappa

You all are living in a dream. The whole "next donation drive" isn't real, as the project "shot it's wad" with the email a few months ago, and donations have dropped back to noise levels since.

While I've see posts that infer that there will be another "donation drive", I've not seen anything about it from someone that would really know.

The donations are at about $260k, but what's needed is about $750k for 2006, and we are 1/2 thru 2006.

And Dr Dave is crunching CPDN it seems,per the WSJ, and not Seti.

That gives many a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about how the project director is suporting this project.

I thought that someone with some sense was going to make this thread "unsticky" a while back so it would fade into obscurity!

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Woody

Start an New Thread! This is as you said Way Off Topic, and yes I use heavy "snippage."

Woody

So the Bottom Line is that "We are part of the Problem or We are part of the Solution!"

(way off topic)

And from my perspective, being "part of the solution" does not mean only doing what some may consider "positive" to the project. Would things ever change if there weren't a few that said "but things could be better", even if they're not exactly sure what that change could be?

---

Woody

Start an New Thread! This is as you said Way Off Topic, and yes I use heavy "snippage."

Woody

So the Bottom Line is that "We are part of the Problem or We are part of the Solution!"

(way off topic)

And from my perspective, being "part of the solution" does not mean only doing what some may consider "positive" to the project. Would things ever change if

there weren't a few that said "but things could be better", even if they're not

exactly sure what that change could be?

Undoubtedly part of the solution but I guess everyone has and is entitled to their position. Notwithstanding, the option is there, opt in or opt out1
amryform

Okay Folks

The Credit Wars are ended... There is Still a need to finish raising the $750000

UCB is working on the PayPal Issue and They have the Store Online! WE Need to raise the rest of the money to keep Seti Going!

The New Reciever is in place and collecting Data... It will cost a bit to get the Data Here!

If You have not considered a Donation then please do so...

YOU can find the Link/URL at Donate

Your help is Needed!

Thank YOU

Pappa

---

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