A lot of people here agree that we need to close classic soon. Hardware, network bandwidth, and people resources, that are desperately needed in boinc, can be redeployed if classic closes down. But we spend a lot of time complaining about things. Why not, as a client base, be proactive for once?

I suggest each of us
1) to go to the classic web pages,
2) find the email addresses of several classic users who are still active, and then
3) send them a polite note to make the move to boinc. (Ask them to encourage their friends to change as well.)

With a little boost, a percentage of these users may take the plunge and end their classic subscription early. This will gently accelerate the transition process so boinc can respond. In a short time, hopefully, boinc can start using newly underused hardware currently on classic. For example, bonic's use of sagan is apparently shared with classic already.

I realize not everyone's email is posted or current. If someone knows a way around that, lets hear. But there are enough to get the process started. Note, UCB doesn't have to lift a finger!

---

May this Farce be with You

A lot of people here agree that we need to close classic soon. Hardware, network bandwidth, and people resources, that are desperately needed in boinc, can be redeployed if classic closes down. But we spend a lot of time complaining about things. Why not, as a client base, be proactive for once?

I suggest each of us
1) to go to the classic web pages,
2) find the email addresses of several classic users who are still active, and then
3) send them a polite note to make the move to boinc. (Ask them to encourage their friends to change as well.)

With a little boost, a percentage of these users may take the plunge and end their classic subscription early. This will gently accelerate the transition process so boinc can respond. In a short time, hopefully, boinc can start using newly underused hardware currently on classic. For example, bonic's use of sagan is apparently shared with classic already.

I realize not everyone's email is posted or current. If someone knows a way around that, lets hear. But there are enough to get the process started. Note, UCB doesn't have to lift a finger!

This is a great idea.

---

I agree. Im tired of convincing my friends that still run classic that it will shutdown soon, Ive been telling them for over a year now and nobody seems to belive me any more.

---

A lot of people here agree that we need to close classic soon. Hardware, network bandwidth, and people resources, that are desperately needed in boinc, can be redeployed if classic closes down. But we spend a lot of time complaining about things. Why not, as a client base, be proactive for once?

I suggest each of us
1) to go to the classic web pages,
2) find the email addresses of several classic users who are still active, and then
3) send them a polite note to make the move to boinc. (Ask them to encourage their friends to change as well.)

With a little boost, a percentage of these users may take the plunge and end their classic subscription early. This will gently accelerate the transition process so boinc can respond. In a short time, hopefully, boinc can start using newly underused hardware currently on classic. For example, bonic's use of sagan is apparently shared with classic already.

I realize not everyone's email is posted or current. If someone knows a way around that, lets hear. But there are enough to get the process started. Note, UCB doesn't have to lift a finger!

Please read!!!

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=18265#149184

I am neither pro nor con about this, but I really don't think that you have thought this thru fully. I am asking you to please consider what I have said in my response to you in the other thread and close this thread down.


Respectfully Submitted,
mjmanix
Metairie, Louisiana, USA

---

OS:WinXPPro SP2
CPU:Intel P4HT 3.2GHz
MB:ASUS P4P800-E
RAM:Corsair 2048MB PC3200DDR
HDD0:WDC 40GB P-ATA(OS, AV, Firewall, BOINC 5.10.16, etc)
HDD1:Maxtor 200GB S-ATA(non-essential files/program installers)
VGA:ATI A-I-W 9800Pro AGP 8x 128MB-DDR

Well for my part I think boinc needs the hardware and the attention of the system managers. I have a long held (since I moved in March this year) that classic should close. Its a diversion of valuable resources that detracts from what is now trying to be achieved. I say close it......now!. Go on the classic forums and beat the drum for advancing the seti community rather than living in the past. Sure boinc has problems but its a great concept and assimilation is inevitable....as the Borg would say!

---

I agree with the Major on this, and anyway if the guys at Seti thought it was a good time to make the switch they would have done so. In addition I think it's a little arrogant to think you have the right to interfere in someone elses project no matter how well meaning that interference is.

It's SETI@HOMES CALL let them make it.

---

@Major Moe:

Respectfully, I think slowing down is silly. Seti is Seti, just add the classic and the boinc versions together to get whatever number of returned wu's you want. You want 2B, I bet we got them already given there are 100K+ users already boincing. It's fair, too, since the wu's are from the same tapes and are processed essentially the same way.

Do we keep quiet about the very large number of repeated wu's that were sent out? Or how about the cheaters? Were they added into the 2B?? If so, do we wait for classic to get to 2B with valid results.

I don't see any federal funding agencies listed on the classic seti home page; but I do on the bonic homepage. Do we tell the NSF that we need to suffer a dreary shoe-string resource situation for boinc just so that classic can get a one-inch section of the New York Times science page? (A good spin-meister can get that much space for anything this project does.)

Don't assume too much, however. My proposal is proactive and gradual. It is doubtful everyone we contact will make the switch right away, but will do so over time. It is also doubtful that a few of the heavy weights, with high daily outputs, will change for anything. But most of us can't catch them anyway, assuming we wanted to.

I say it is within our power to move this project more quickly toward the ultimate end, of finding ET. Why not do it?

---

May this Farce be with You

@Major Moe:

Respectfully, I think slowing down is silly. Seti is Seti, just add the classic and the boinc versions together to get whatever number of returned wu's you want. You want 2B, I bet we got them already given there are 100K+ users already boincing. It's fair, too, since the wu's are from the same tapes and are processed essentially the same way.

To be fair, I will break this down in sections and attempt to reply so that maybe you will see my point. Please understand that 1.) this is respectful, i am not bashing you, BOINC/Seti, the forums or anyone, 2.) I am neither whining nor cheerleading, 3.) I, myself, am ready for the transition, and 4.) I am doing what I can to accelerate the closure of Classic as best as I can. First, I'm not asking anyone to 'slow down' anything. I'm just observing that UCB seems intent on attaining that 2B mark. You're attempting to make this a 'you vs. me' or 'Classic vs. BOINC' issue; it is NOT. The 2B mark is a milestone that UCB has set, not me.

Do we keep quiet about the very large number of repeated wu's that were sent out? Or how about the cheaters? Were they added into the 2B?? If so, do we wait for classic to get to 2B with valid results.

Again, it is not me you should be asking this. It was just my observation that UCB was going to attempt to reach the 2B workunit mark and it was their estimation that it would be reached by mid-September, NOT MINE. Ask them, not me. I only quoted what they said in my response to you.

I don't see any federal funding agencies listed on the classic seti home page; but I do on the bonic homepage. Do we tell the NSF that we need to suffer a dreary shoe-string resource situation for boinc just so that classic can get a one-inch section of the New York Times science page? (A good spin-meister can get that much space for anything this project does.)

As per another forum message, the SETI Classic message boards and web pages are being 'ramped down'. I doubt that any new corporate or federal funding sponsers have been added to those pages in quite a while. Do WE have to tell anyone anything? Or maybe UCN should?

Don't assume too much, however. My proposal is proactive and gradual. It is doubtful everyone we contact will make the switch right away, but will do so over time. It is also doubtful that a few of the heavy weights, with high daily outputs, will change for anything. But most of us can't catch them anyway, assuming we wanted to.

I respectfully apologize if i assumed too much, however, I mis-read and misunderstood your post, both here and in the other thread. I read it as a call to action. I read it as you were not only going to attempt to e-mail Classic participants and try to encourage them by your e-mail to move to BOINC, as well as suggest to other BOINC participants to do the same, without checking with any actual project members.

I say it is within our power to move this project more quickly toward the ultimate end, of finding ET. Why not do it?

Again, I respectfully propose that it is NOT within your power or anyone else's here. Check with UCB.....please. They set the 2B mark, they said it would be mid-September, not me, not you, not anyone else on this forum.


Respectfully Submitted,
mjmanix
Metairie, Louisiana, USA

---

OS:WinXPPro SP2
CPU:Intel P4HT 3.2GHz
MB:ASUS P4P800-E
RAM:Corsair 2048MB PC3200DDR
HDD0:WDC 40GB P-ATA(OS, AV, Firewall, BOINC 5.10.16, etc)
HDD1:Maxtor 200GB S-ATA(non-essential files/program installers)
VGA:ATI A-I-W 9800Pro AGP 8x 128MB-DDR

(We are having a discussion; nobody is the target.)

I suspect the 2B number is not real; can you quote a reliable source? (As you can see from my post below I feel slowing down any project to meet a milestone is not defensible.)

I do propose that we contact people still running classic. Only a percentage of the email addresses are available and only a fraction of those are still returning results to classic. So some sudden change in classic is unlikely. But if we can accelerate the process with very little effort (probably less than we spend reading all these message board threads), we will all be a lot better for it. (again for the reasons below)

If UCB has an opinion, I'm sure they will post it. Matt, for one, obviously reads and responds to these threads from time to time. I think the lack of a post means something.

Thx.

---

May this Farce be with You

Well I just posted this with a view to persuading folk over from classic. Please do the same or support that thread Boinc & Seti by Ian. If we can move them then that will hasten closure I am sure!

Hi.
I am an ex Seti classic cruncher. I moved over to Boinc in March this year. I did this because Seti will move entirely to Boinc in the not very distant future. I have read posts here that say its all too difficult to make the move and I wanted to re-assure people that this is not the case. Yes we had our fair share of server issues recently but it always recovers well....nothing lost! I run 5 PCs on Seti with different boinc clients and different seti clients too. I have to say I am pretty well satisfied with the concept as its truely hard to run dry of work even when a server might be down. I also process other boinc projects like climate presictiona and Large Hadron Collider which are both intriguing projects. There are others too within the Boinc community. I am here to encourage you to make the move. It can be done and if there are problems there's loads of help in the forums. Most folk are pretty friendly and will lend a hand....I have not seen a problem yet that cannot be overcome tbh. So....please join us and crunch for success! Join other projects and see new areas of science. Its all fascinating!. I am Tigher on the boinc forums and would be happy to help where ever I can....as will many others. Good luck and jope to see you very soon.

---

The concept of Classic users (and Classic servers) moving to Boinc is good, but the timing right now is terrible. Boinc servers need to have some excess capacity, with zero or nearly zero backlogs, before a lot more users come on board. If you think the server farm at Berkley is stressed and backlogged now, it would be a disaster to add a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand more users to the Boinc setup.

Matt and the others need to get to the bottom of the bottleneck(s) and add more capacity somewhere before moving Classic users en masse. I'm wondering whether the Snap Appliance device is running at maximum or whether there appears to be a data flow problem, such as where the gigabit switch was used to speed things up. Matt said earlier today that "Penguin" is lightly loaded, yet it has all the validation, assimilation, and deletion duties assigned to it. If it is lightly loaded, why are backlogs growing? Clearly, some more tweaking of data flow or the data base is needed to achieve excess capacity before more users are added. ...Whit

(We are having a discussion; nobody is the target.)

I suspect the 2B number is not real; can you quote a reliable source? (As you can see from my post below I feel slowing down any project to meet a milestone is not defensible.)

I do propose that we contact people still running classic. Only a percentage of the email addresses are available and only a fraction of those are still returning results to classic. So some sudden change in classic is unlikely. But if we can accelerate the process with very little effort (probably less than we spend reading all these message board threads), we will all be a lot better for it. (again for the reasons below)

If UCB has an opinion, I'm sure they will post it. Matt, for one, obviously reads and responds to these threads from time to time. I think the lack of a post means something.

Thx.

Here is the thread that I was refering to, along with Matt's and others' responses, but I believe that it was copied from the SETI Statistics page somewhere.

Respectfully speaking, if Matt can speak for the project officially, as a Volunteer Developer and Tester, then please, by all means, he should do so. Perhaps you should check with him before you send out your e-mails as well, is all I am suggesting.

And with all due respect, you may use this post as my notification to you that I do not wish to recieve an email. I have BOINC/Seti installed, it works, with no setup problems at all on any of my computers. I am ready for the transition when they shut Classic down, and it officially occurs, as I observe it, after mid-September.


Respectfully Submitted,
mjmanix
Metairie, Louisiana, USA

---

OS:WinXPPro SP2
CPU:Intel P4HT 3.2GHz
MB:ASUS P4P800-E
RAM:Corsair 2048MB PC3200DDR
HDD0:WDC 40GB P-ATA(OS, AV, Firewall, BOINC 5.10.16, etc)
HDD1:Maxtor 200GB S-ATA(non-essential files/program installers)
VGA:ATI A-I-W 9800Pro AGP 8x 128MB-DDR

If classic is still viable, even in the short term, we as users sending mail to other users just to flush them out as a means to improving things for those of us that have already converted doesn't seem right. As crunchers we're pretty low on the food chain, let the guys at the top running the project handle the logistics of notifications, email and such.

@Major Moe: I guess I didn't read the beginning of this thread as a statement of an official milestone. It's kinda like the Dow breaking 10000, or the 4 minute mile to me. No event hinges on this milestone, as far as this thread is concerned. The thread contributors were also not sure what the 2B mark meant except as a trophy, and at least one person expressed the doubt I had regarding counting of valid wu's (I don't actually know the details of this issue in classic). Finally, I couldn't find Matt's name anywhere in the thread.

I've sent a note to a few people and have gotten very nice replies back, cruncher to cruncher. So I still don't see the problem, from this facet.

In the end I think it is important to strive for continuous improvement toward the scientific goal and would encourage others to do the same.

---

May this Farce be with You

@Major Moe: I guess I didn't read the beginning of this thread as a statement of an official milestone. It's kinda like the Dow breaking 10000, or the 4 minute mile to me. No event hinges on this milestone, as far as this thread is concerned. The thread contributors were also not sure what the 2B mark meant except as a trophy, and at least one person expressed the doubt I had regarding counting of valid wu's (I don't actually know the details of this issue in classic). Finally, I couldn't find Matt's name anywhere in the thread.

I've sent a note to a few people and have gotten very nice replies back, cruncher to cruncher. So I still don't see the problem, from this facet.

In the end I think it is important to strive for continuous improvement toward the scientific goal and would encourage others to do the same.

I respectfully apologize; it was not Matt's name in the thread, but another Volunteer Tester and Developer, John McLeod VII's instead. I am not in oposition with you concerning the 2B mark as a trophy, nor the validity of the mark, nor the cheating, in Classic, nor the count....none of that. I only observed that, if in fact that mark is to be achieved, and it seems that UCB wants to do that, and if in fact your e-mail campaign DOES work, it will not accelerate the closure of Seti Classic, but just prolong it past the mid-September projected date; possibly by days, possibly by months. Your e-mail campaign is counter productive. The purpose of speeding up the closure of SETI Classic would be better served if you and others left numerous messages on the old Classic message boards requesting that Classic participants at least attempt the install of BOINC/Seti and be prepared for the transition.

The only thing I believe that I am in oposition with you is the direct e-mailing of any participant of either project by another participant without his/her consent, cruncher to cruncher or otherwise. That should be left up to the project administration or their agents to do, or with their direct approval, if and when they feel the need or the situation warrants it. And without any official 'updated' word from the project concerning the closure of Classic, or the 2B mark as a goal, then all of this is simply conjecture on all of our parts. I am ready for the closure of Classic, and when it occurs, my processors will not cool off; they will begin crunching BOINC/Seti in earnest.


Respectfully Submitted,
mjmanix
Metairie, Louisiana, USA

---

OS:WinXPPro SP2
CPU:Intel P4HT 3.2GHz
MB:ASUS P4P800-E
RAM:Corsair 2048MB PC3200DDR
HDD0:WDC 40GB P-ATA(OS, AV, Firewall, BOINC 5.10.16, etc)
HDD1:Maxtor 200GB S-ATA(non-essential files/program installers)
VGA:ATI A-I-W 9800Pro AGP 8x 128MB-DDR

I bet the people that run Seti laugh and laugh at all the comments from the back-seat drivers. You remember that expression don't you? The person in the back-seat tries to tell the person driving which way to go.

Why do so many of you think you can tell Seti personnel what should or should not be done? "Turn Seti Classic off now its a waiste of resources."

Don't you think they have a Plan or a good idea of how they would like to see things progress? When something should be shut down, turned off, turned on, unplugged, plugged in....ect. Now, sometimes the plans won't always work out and something might go wrong.

Don't you think if closing down Classic was the answer that would solve "All", they would have done it.

They have there agenda. Maybe it's the 2 billion mark or maybe it's a money issue or maybe its 1 of a hundred other things.

Take a Chill-Pill folks.....it will happen when it happens.

---

[img][/img]

On the one hand, of course you are right. It is unclear why anybody sweats this stuff. (One might ask, apart from gleaning a chuckle or two, why someone with a cool head and an operational computer would bother reading any of these threads; maybe the operational computer isn't a necessity either.)

On the other hand, one might take the perspective that we should rant and rage amongst ourselves to find a better way of doing something. This is the scientific method: test every point until your understanding and confidence grows. These folks don't settle for obvious inefficiencies (because they waste time) and don't care to otherwise stray from the search for the Holy Grail. (The may argue about what the Holy Grail actually is, I suppose, like this thread)

On the third hand, one might assume there is a guiding light, with an all knowing plan for SETI. Sort of a Zen, one hand clapping perspective, I suppose.

A basic premise here that has been substantiated by command central repeatedly is that they are in a jam. They don't have the proper resources to do boinc and transition to the new science. Furthermore, they seem to appreciate the hairbrain, sometimes unvarnished feedback that is given, which is not to say they are expected to abide by it. So in this sense it does seem that helpful suggestions are appreciated, even if this is quiet appreciation, even the ones on this thread.

Seti Classic is more fun than BOINC and the users over at BOINC messaging take
out any fun that is left. They were going to stop the seti classic when BOINC
could handle more users the were on classic side. It's not quite happening yet.
Let us enjoy out classic community until the end is really near. I don't like
being told that something works great when it doesn't. In regards to the
scheduler, It should only complain about beng overcommitted when it is actually
overcommitted.

---

It would be nice if everyone would just move over to BOINC/SETI.

The bad part is that a lot of machines just can't handle BOINC/SETI.

It will be a shame to see those folks have to quit.

Go 2 billion!

---

I respectfully apologize; it was not Matt's name in the thread, but another Volunteer Tester and Developer, John McLeod VII's instead.

Just what was it you believe I was saying? The one post that I found that had any relevance was my comment on the silly names for numbers. I cannot say why Classic is still running as I am just as much in the dark as you are. I believe that it will be shut down in less than 3 months, but then I believed this about 4 months ago as well (shrug, so much for that crystal ball -- Crash).

---

BOINC WIKI