Who uses or has experience with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut?

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Message 1922283 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 3:02:08 UTC
Last modified: 3 Mar 2018, 3:03:17 UTC

OK, some background. I have used Arctic MX-4 thermal compound on my computers for several years now. Very consistent and good results.

Back last year when I built the second Ryzen computer, I tried the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and was not impressed and unhappy with the higher temps than I was getting with the MX-4 paste. I thought the paste was old stock because it was dried out was very stiff and I was under the impression that the product was supposed to be fairly thin and easy to spread based on YT videos. I returned the once used product to Amazon and got a refund.

I have decided I am unhappy with my cpu temps now that the radiator has to handle both the cpu and the new 1080Ti. So I decided I wanted to try the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut again and hope this time I got new stock that wasn't dried out.

I have been experiencing temps in the 64-66° C range with my standard MX-4 paste. I took off the cpu block and as expected the MX-4 I had applied during assembly was insufficient and didn't have a good cover spread. So I cleaned off the MX-4 from the IHS and cpu block with 93% isopropyl alcohol and applied the new Kryonaut paste. This time, the product appeared to be the correct consistency as the YT videos. I used the applicator tip spreader and evenly painted the IHS with a thin layer with no gaps or bubbles.

Reassembled the cpu block and am now experiencing 70-72° C. temps. What is going on?? The MX-4 is supposed to have a 8.4W/mK conductivity and the Kryonaut is supposed to have a 12.5W/mK thermal conductivity. Better by half. So why do I have such high cpu temps??

Does Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut actually have a cure period like the old Arctic Silver AS-5?? I can't find any information that it does and only one forum post that matched my experience almost to a T with the user switching from MX-4 to Kryonaut.

So anybody else have any experience with this product?? Did you notice a "cure" period?? Did you get better temps from your previous thermal paste?
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Message 1922286 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 3:07:00 UTC

I've always found less is better when it comes to heatsink compound.
Heatsink compound is a better conductor of heat than air, but it's no where nearly as good as metal to metal contact. Hence I've always just used a smear of compound over the CPU package. The compound is only supposed to fill in the gaps between the metal surfaces and displace the less conductive air, not to come between the metal surfaces themselves.
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Message 1922288 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 3:21:50 UTC
Last modified: 3 Mar 2018, 3:23:22 UTC

Well, I have been applying thermal paste now for about 40 years. I believe I know how by now. Never had any issues before I tried this product. I agree, you don't have to apply all that much as long as you get a proper spread pattern over the actual die. The good non-conductive thermal pastes don't penalize you if you apply more than is needed to fully cover the IHS, it just makes cleanup and removal messy at the next teardown.

I saw that I was too stingy with my Arctic MX-4 application as the spread pattern was inconsistent on the cpu block and IHS. It only covered about 75% of the IHS. I suspected that was why I was seeing about 3-4° C. worse temps from before the rebuild. I know that I applied just the correct amount of Kryonaut tonight because it was very easy to paint the IHS with just enough to hide the IHS markings and fully cover the surface area. I don't apply more than that because as I said, it makes cleanup harder and excess doesn't help temps in any way.

That is why I have asked about anyone who used Kryonaut and their experiences. I have to believe that all the Internet 'hype" about Kryonaut being the best paste on the market short of liquid metal can't be all hyperbole. I need to know whether anyone saw a cure period or not. And if so, where did their temps start from and where did the end after cure time.
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Message 1922299 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 3:52:57 UTC

I'm still a fan of Arctic Silver 5 and that takes 72hrs for that to cure before you see good temps, maybe that stuff also needs time to cure too.

Cheers.
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Message 1922304 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 4:03:43 UTC - in response to Message 1922299.  

I'm still a fan of Arctic Silver 5 and that takes 72hrs for that to cure before you see good temps, maybe that stuff also needs time to cure too.

Cheers.
+1, I had the same thoughts. It also likes a few heating/cooling cycles thrown in for good measure during the curing period I've found as well. Keith, any special reason you're using the Arctic MX-4 vs. the AS5? I've used it for years, and have overall been pretty happy with it, but then, I've been using it for years, so I know technology marches forward, and products get leapfrogged all the time. But.. There is also though the If it ain't broke, don't fix it methodology too...

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Message 1922309 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 4:16:24 UTC - in response to Message 1922304.  

I used AS-5 for years and always had good temps. Main drawbacks are the 200 hour cure time, it's conductive and it tends to dry out and harden after about a year. That was my reapply schedule, one year.

MX-4 is carbon based,not aluminum. Not conductive. No cure time and stays at the same viscosity for many years. Both AS-5 and MX-4 come in at around 8.4W/mK thermal conductivity. MX-4 was the replacement for AS-5 to eliminate some of AS-5 drawbacks.
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Message 1922331 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 4:55:33 UTC

Also can relate some horror stories of AS-5 after it has been in place for over a year. Mostly concerning AMD users. After the chip has been in place long enough and you decide you want to remove the cpu cooler, many stories of having the cpu pull completely out of the socket when you pull the cooler off and leaving pins behind. Or of being smart and giving the cooler a twist to break the AS-5 glue loose from the IHS and having the cpu actually shear all the pins off the chip and leave them in the socket.
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Message 1922412 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 12:53:23 UTC
Last modified: 3 Mar 2018, 13:07:52 UTC

Holy cow, I haven't heard those horror stories before, but to be honest, I haven't been looking for any info on it in years, after it had became the go to TIM. Hmm, so it ideally should be reapplied yearly? Maybe that is part of the issue with the Lotsacores temps heading up a bit... Time to do some research into the state of TIM in 2018, not 2010... :-/

*edit* Came across a reference to this article from last August in one of the comments on the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut question section at Amazon: Thermal Paste Round-up: 85 Products Tested

It does rate Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut as being in the top 5-6, behind some metallic paste types. It also mentions metallic pads, but I've never heard about those, there is one in the top 5 as well. Hmm. Time to do some more reading, though it looks like the metallic paste takes the top spots, but being metallic, it raises the conductivity concerns? Wonder if they have the same 'drying out' issues as AS-5? I'm not super concerned about conductivity because I am extremely careful when applying it.

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Message 1922426 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 14:20:34 UTC

What a nonsense.

I use AS-5 since it came out, and use watercooling way before it was commercial. I cnc'ed my own blocks in the past of copper. It's been almost 20 years...

Key info about watercooling is:

- Use as minimal as possible thermal paste, divide it carefully. It's only for filling micro gaps, anything more will result as insulator and being negative on the temps.
- Best use metal compounds, reseach for your own whats suite you best, lookup thermal conduction properties of that particular metal.
- Use car coolant as liquid, glycol based and at best G12, the red one. Why? Because you don't get a poluted water system, and metal galvanic corrosion, Plus it lubricates your pump bearing better. My laing ddc pumps are working for at least 10 years here, they survived 4 systems already.

I personally use oversized radiators, 4 x 120 mm fans each, running on low speeds to have a quiet system with crunching heavy load.
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Message 1922433 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 14:46:34 UTC

I tried the Kryonaut as well. Pretty good heat transfer, but it sets up too much too quickly. So any attempt to adjust the block after the initial install seems to go downhill.
I have some Conductonaut on order, will be a couple of weeks before I get it. Have to be very very careful using it, as it is conductive as the name implies.
I am using Koolance 702 for coolant. It is propylene glycol based (antifreeze), so you have to be careful not to leave any spillage around for inquisitive kitties to get into. It has corrosion and bio inhibitors added, and Koolance says it is good for 2-3 years before replacing it with fresh coolant. Comes in a handy squeeze bottle with a long tube for filling the reservoir of the cooling loop.
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Message 1922451 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 15:45:29 UTC - in response to Message 1922426.  

What a nonsense.

I use AS-5 since it came out, and use watercooling way before it was commercial. I cnc'ed my own blocks in the past of copper. It's been almost 20 years...


I gather you've never used AMD processors before. I have. Been exclusive AMD for 20 years. I have in fact ripped the cpu right out of the socket when I pulled the air cooler off the IHS and it didn't separate and just pulled the chip out of the socket. I got lucky, no pins lost or bent since I pulled straight up. Scared me %hi*less though. I always have since then twisted gently on the cooler to break the seal before pulling the cooler off the chip. I also began religiously replacing AS-5 on a yearly schedule.
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Message 1922452 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 15:56:22 UTC - in response to Message 1922451.  

Regardless of the heatsink compound being used, it also does help if you can remove the heatsink after booting or running the computer to heat the CPU up and soften the compound a bit rather than to do it when everything is cold.
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Message 1922476 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 17:54:50 UTC - in response to Message 1922451.  

I gather you've never used AMD processors before. I have. Been exclusive AMD for 20 years. I have in fact ripped the cpu right out of the socket when I pulled the air cooler off the IHS and it didn't separate and just pulled the chip out of the socket. I got lucky, no pins lost or bent since I pulled straight up. Scared me %hi*less though. I always have since then twisted gently on the cooler to break the seal before pulling the cooler off the chip. I also began religiously replacing AS-5 on a yearly schedule.
Yeah that is scary, happened to me several times until I started twisting them.

Until my current rig was built, I used AS5 & also cleaned out once a year. Since Mike suggested this cooler which I bought,



he also suggested MX4. I tried it & due to old habits, cleaned out & rebuilt a year later. which due to medical issues have not done so since. Just checking the temps now get this.

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Message 1922478 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 18:05:51 UTC - in response to Message 1922476.  

I still have the Noctua NH-D15 sitting in the closet as a emergency backup cooler. I had to use it in the beginning for Ryzen until the AIO vendors could ship AM-4 socket adapters. Damn fine cooler. Makes a great case for not bothering with AIO cooling if you can get by with its huge size on the motherboard and if it clears your case.

I really like MX-4. I bought a 20g tube of it several years ago and still have plenty left. Still has the original viscosity and I have probably removed or installed coolers over 20 times now on my crunching farm.
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Message 1922485 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 18:18:28 UTC - in response to Message 1922478.  
Last modified: 3 Mar 2018, 18:25:56 UTC

Mine is the NH-D14 & with using a Coolermaster R1000 Cosmos case, no problems with clearance (just about - phew). With AS5 on my Phenom quads I was getting cpu temps of 30's, with the max I can recall of 38c. Using MX4 got them down to something similar to what I posted above.

Clearance :-)



Think I can get a couple of Rizla papers between the gap of that cooler fan & the rear exhaust fan :-)
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Message 1922519 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 20:09:58 UTC - in response to Message 1922451.  

What a nonsense.

I use AS-5 since it came out, and use watercooling way before it was commercial. I cnc'ed my own blocks in the past of copper. It's been almost 20 years...


I gather you've never used AMD processors before. I have. Been exclusive AMD for 20 years. I have in fact ripped the cpu right out of the socket when I pulled the air cooler off the IHS and it didn't separate and just pulled the chip out of the socket. I got lucky, no pins lost or bent since I pulled straight up. Scared me %hi*less though. I always have since then twisted gently on the cooler to break the seal before pulling the cooler off the chip. I also began religiously replacing AS-5 on a yearly schedule.




As a matter of fact, i have used AMD before. a few times. Athlon XP 1200, but they had the edge patches so no core edge could break off.
And 2 other Athlon 64's, but they ran much cooler.

But still, i do not replace the AS-5, never did. Unless CPU upgrade offc.
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Message 1922565 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 22:07:41 UTC

I am still using just plain old Vaseline. Cheap, doesn't evaporate, just use enough to make the IHS barely sticky, never had a problem on any of my crunchers. Fills those micro hills and valleys and doesn't get in the way of the metal-to-metal contact. Never have had to redo it, either. Cheap (like me), too.
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Message 1922588 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 23:22:59 UTC

Well I am going to let the Kryonaut "cure" for 72 hours. So I will see where I'm at on Monday. It doesn't look good so far. I have seen no drop at all in the terminal temperatures since I started Friday night.

I will pull the cpu block again on Monday if I don't get any improvement and either go back to MX-4 or try some of the Noctua HT-1 thermal paste that tests high also.

The one thing at the back of my mind that I didn't check when I installed the cpu block was to check the new chip for how much convex curvature is in the IHS. I have a suspicion this new chip is not as flat as the original and could explain greatly why I am seeing such poorer temps compared to the last chip.

If there is a lot of curvature to the IHS, the only solution would be to try and find stronger springs for the block to increase the clamping pressure.
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Message 1922598 - Posted: 3 Mar 2018, 23:45:12 UTC - in response to Message 1922588.  

If there is a lot of curvature to the IHS, the only solution would be to try and find stronger springs for the block to increase the clamping pressure.

Or it's back to the 90s for some CPU lapping.
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Message 1922602 - Posted: 4 Mar 2018, 0:13:15 UTC - in response to Message 1922598.  

I know, I am dreading if that is the case. I don't want to have to dig out my wet sandpaper portfolio. At least I took a picture of the IHS production information on the new chip this time.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Who uses or has experience with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut?


 
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