AMD EPYC Benchmarks Smash the WinTel Hedgemony?...

Message boards : Number crunching : AMD EPYC Benchmarks Smash the WinTel Hedgemony?...
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1886427 - Posted: 27 Aug 2017, 16:20:21 UTC
Last modified: 27 Aug 2017, 16:27:29 UTC

Intel gave a presentation that included lies and in my opinion vandalism against AMD. Very good now to see some of those lies countered, head-on:


Hot Chips 2017: AMD Outlines Threadripper And EPYC's MCM Advantage, Claims 41% Cost Reduction

AMD Senior Fellow Kevin Lepak took to the stage at Hot Chips 2017 to explain the reasoning behind EPYC's MCM (Multi-Chip Module) design and to remind us that the company decided to use multiple die very early in the design process.

Intel presented ... during its Purley server event. Intel claimed that AMD merely uses "glued together desktop die"... AMD suffered a short-term stock slump as a result...

But [actually,] AMD has tailored its design ... and claims that its design provides a 41% cost reduction compared to a single monolithic die. Let's dive in...

... realized early on that a single monolithic die couldn't deliver on the company's performance, memory, and I/O goals. Lepak revealed that the decision also stemmed from the company's cost projections. Lepak presented a mock-up of a monolithic EPYC processor and compared manufacturing costs between the two techniques...

Memory throughput and latency can suffer due to MCM architectures. In fact, that's one of Intel's key arguments [against AMD] in its infamous slide deck. AMD presented DRAM bandwidth tests outlining performance in various configurations. The "NUMA Friendly" bandwidth represents memory accesses to the die's local memory controller, while "NUMA Unaware" measures memory traffic flowing over the Infinity Fabric from a memory controller connected to another die.

Obviously, AMD was aware of the memory throughput challenges ... so it overprovisioned the memory subsystem to accommodate the complexity. Bandwidth varies by only 15% at full saturation. Notably, throughput scales well with [small] variation between the different types of access during lighter workloads...

AMD also presented memory throughput and scaling benchmarks that show an impressive lead over Intel's processors, but the company is still comparing to Broadwell-era processors. ... Lepak explained that the company has had difficulties sourcing Intel's Skylake-based Purley processors but is working to provide updated comparisons...

Although AMD has taken the high road and not responded directly to Intel's EPYC slide deck... First and foremost, AMD designed the die specifically for the data center. Intel's "glue" remark refers to glue logic, which is an industry term for interconnects between die (in this case AMD's Infinity Fabric). In either case, the insinuation that AMD is merely using desktop silicon for the data center certainly has a negative connotation. However, AMD's tactic is innovative and reduces cost...

Interestingly, Intel ... outlined the company's EMIB (Embedded Multi-die Interconnect Bridge) technology ... which Intel considers a key technology for its next-gen processors. Although the approaches are different, the motivation behind Intel's EMIB and AMD's Infinity Fabric are similar, which AMD feels validates its approach.

In either case, AMD is humming right along with its EPYC processors, and a wide range of blue chip OEMs and ODMs have platforms coming to market...




When Intel eventually get their version of a multi-die interconnect out to market, we can throw their very own infamous slide-deck back at them to eat their own lies.

Unfortunately, all a game of Intel vandalism?



On a positive note, we have:

Phoronix: Some Early AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X Linux Benchmarks

... I finally got my hands on the AMD Threadripper. In particular, the Ryzen Threadripper 1950X that features sixteen physical cores yielding 32 threads via SMT, 3.4GHz base frequency, 4.0GHz boost clock frequency, and quad-channel DDR4 support. This Threadripper 1950X is a beast but will set you back $999 USD and has a 180 Watt TDP...

... but here are some very early results for those anxious to see this HEDT PC on Linux...

... Threadripper is a HUGE chip for those that haven't looked...




Happy cool crunchin',
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1886427 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Ghia
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 17
Posts: 85
Credit: 8,650,345
RAC: 30,921
Norway
Message 1886436 - Posted: 27 Aug 2017, 17:00:25 UTC

...and the polarization continues. No need to slander one or the other of the combatants, however.
Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...
ID: 1886436 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1886517 - Posted: 27 Aug 2017, 23:41:39 UTC - in response to Message 1886436.  

...and the polarization continues. No need to slander...

Indeed, no need whatsoever.

Please read the articles and judge for yourself how Intel's claims and presentation agree with reality or not...

Note also that Intel has still not paid all their fines for their previous actions that courts have judged worthy of large fines... All 'normal business practice'? Or 'monopoly'?

Unfortunately, 'dirty deeds' stifles innovation. We then pay for that.


IT is what we allow it to be,
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1886517 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 8877
Credit: 114,967,861
RAC: 69,780
Australia
Message 1886565 - Posted: 28 Aug 2017, 4:20:27 UTC - in response to Message 1886427.  

Intel gave a presentation that included lies and in my opinion vandalism against AMD. Very good now to see some of those lies countered, head-on:

Just take some deep breaths and calm down. Spouting rubbish for the other side doesn't help them.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1886565 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Ghia
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 17
Posts: 85
Credit: 8,650,345
RAC: 30,921
Norway
Message 1886581 - Posted: 28 Aug 2017, 6:41:39 UTC - in response to Message 1886565.  

Intel gave a presentation that included lies and in my opinion vandalism against AMD. Very good now to see some of those lies countered, head-on:

Just take some deep breaths and calm down. Spouting rubbish for the other side doesn't help them.

My sentiments exactly :-)
Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...
ID: 1886581 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1887268 - Posted: 1 Sep 2017, 13:18:34 UTC - in response to Message 1886581.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2017, 13:33:45 UTC

Intel gave a presentation that included lies and in my opinion vandalism against AMD. Very good now to see some of those lies countered, head-on:

Just take some deep breaths and calm down. Spouting rubbish for the other side doesn't help them.

My sentiments exactly :-)

We've had 'knocking copy' negative advertising for a long time. Unfortunately, especially for 'time challenged' or 'expertise challenged' people that only give news a quick glance, even very obvious lies will work to do 'unfair' damage that costs us all (Knocking Copy: A Competitive Tool Making The Consumers Blind). Add to that the arrogance and greed of certain big corporations that may well consider their legal departments to be more powerful than the governments that set the rules of play and... What could possibly go wrong?... Well, this is all just my own humble personal opinion and freedom of expression. At least I try to keep my comments honest...

Further comment is a good one for a politics thread...


IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1887268 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1887271 - Posted: 1 Sep 2017, 13:26:13 UTC
Last modified: 1 Sep 2017, 13:28:53 UTC

For more of good positive development:


AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X Review

AMD’s Ryzen Threadripper 1950X put a feather in the cap of its high-end desktop aspirations. The company's new line-up challenges Intel's best efforts. But, as usual, some of the best value in AMD's product stack is found in the mid-range models. Ryzen Threadripper 1920X comes arm[ed] with 12 physical cores and SMT, enabling 24 concurrent threads fed by 38MB of cache, a quad-channel memory controller, and 64 lanes of PCIe. All of that costs $800, dramatically undercutting the 10-core Core i9-7900X.

Based on the back-and-forth we've witnessed this year, it appears the Ryzen family of CPUs may have caught Intel off-balance. AMD's siren call to enthusiasts includes lower prices, more cores, less segmentation, soldered heat spreaders, less expensive motherboards, and a longer commitment to each platform.

Intel does have pricier Skylake-X options available, but they sag under the weight of deliberate segmentation that fuses off native features on the cheaper models...

AMD has an aggressive roadmap it'll use to improve the Zen architecture and transition to smaller nodes, so the company should remain a competitive force to be reckoned with...

Meet Ryzen Threadripper 1920X

AMD designed its Threadripper processors for anyone able to utilize lots of cores and tons of PCIe connectivity. Think content creators, heavy multi-taskers, and software developers...




Unfortunately, the latest update to some of the BIOS looks to include a temperature reporting bug that could catch out the overclockers... One to check for the BIOS version!

AMD Threadripper BIOS Reporting Wrong Temps?

... But after we flashed back from BIOS 0503 to the old 0304 (used for our launch review) on Asus' X399 ROG Zenith motherboard, we saw the old temperature values once again, in addition to the already-documented stability problems. We therefore hypothesize that the cause of the error is the AGESA code 1003 Patch 4, and that it is displaying the calculated temperatures incorrectly during overclocking...

... The result is a thermal accident waiting to happen. An air cooler is therefore out of the question for now.

We have already informed AMD about these measurements, and we are awaiting a statement or a new BIOS, which we will re-test for an update. For now, we recommend manually controlling the fans when using the current BIOS versions.




IT is what we make it,
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1887271 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1891756 - Posted: 25 Sep 2017, 12:45:59 UTC
Last modified: 25 Sep 2017, 12:48:40 UTC

AMD continues to champion the push for us all to escape the far-too-long long 'single supplier' stagnation:


AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X Game Mode, Benchmarked

If you crave lots of cores and tons of PCIe connectivity, like most content creators, multitaskers, and software developers, then Threadripper is for you. It might also be a good fit if you're a gamer who simultaneously runs heavily threaded productivity applications in the background.

The Zeppelin die really is a feat of modern engineering. However, its architecture is dissimilar from anything that came before, creating issues in some software written prior to Ryzen's introduction. AMD worked with game developers to iron out the performance wrinkles we identified at launch, and we've seen big speed-ups in a number of titles as a result. But expanding beyond Ryzen 7, 5, and 3 into a dual-die configuration adds a new set of challenges for Threadripper.

AMD's fix involves two toggles that affect how the processor operates, giving you modes optimized for whatever workload you're running...



Retail AMD Threadripper Delidded, Four Die Present

... Earlier this year, Der8auer delidded a Threadripper engineering sample and found that the processors still feature all four Zeppelin die, similar to AMD's EPYC data center processors. AMD uses only two die for the Threadripper models, so many speculated that it might be possible to unlock the other dies and their extra cores...


Custom Core i9 De-Lidder - To Delid At Any Price

Several generations ago, Intel stopped using solder between the die and the IHS for all of its processors. That doesn't help average users, and it certainly penalizes overclockers...


Forum Post Claims Z390 Chipset, Intel 8-Core CPUs Coming To Market Next Year

... Whether or not the claimed eight-core models would utilize Intel's 10nm process ... is an open question. Cramming in two more cores with Coffee Lake is quite the feat with 14nm technology, be it 14nm+ or 14nm++, but doubling core counts with the same process is unlikely due to thermal and power constraints. That implies the eight-core processors will feature Ice Lake's 10nm+ process, but the leaked roadmap specifically refers to the Z390 chipset for "Coffee Lake-S" processors.

Intel's 8th Generation lineup includes the 14nm+ Kaby Lake-R (refresh), 14nm++ Coffee Lake, and 10nm Cannon Lake processors, which might explain the need for another new chipset. Intel's disclosures indicate the company is moving forward with a new rollout strategy as the competition intensifies...



AMD Transitioning To 12nm LP Process For Vega, Ryzen In 2018

At the Global Foundries Technology Conference, AMD’s CTO Mark Papermaster announced that the company will be transitioning “graphics and client products” from the Global Foundries 14nm LPP FinFET process it uses today to the new 12nm LP process in 2018. Global Foundries also announced that 12LP will begin production in 1Q18...

... Samsung/Global Foundries and TSMC have closed the gap a little once they adopted the FinFET structure for their transistors. AMD's relatively quick transition to the 12nm LP processor is vital for the company as it seeks to compete with Intel's Coffee Lake processors and Nvidia's Volta GPUs...




Good to see the pace of developments ramp up.

But will the one big heavyweight player spoil the party again?...


IT is what we allow it to be,
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1891756 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Keith MyersProject Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 2424
Credit: 183,609,529
RAC: 351,742
United States
Message 1891793 - Posted: 25 Sep 2017, 16:56:15 UTC - in response to Message 1891756.  


Good to see the pace of developments ramp up.

But will the one big heavyweight player spoil the party again?...


IT is what we allow it to be,
Martin

Looks like it. Just watched Paul's Hardware YT video where the 16 core and 18 core i9X trounced the 16 core AMD 1950X fairly soundly.
Intel 7980XE and 7960X vs AMD 1950X! 18-Core i9 Benchmarks & Review
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1891793 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile M_M
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 May 04
Posts: 57
Credit: 29,851,032
RAC: 23,610
Serbia
Message 1891798 - Posted: 25 Sep 2017, 17:31:49 UTC - in response to Message 1891793.  


Looks like it. Just watched Paul's Hardware YT video where the 16 core and 18 core i9X trounced the 16 core AMD 1950X fairly soundly.
Intel 7980XE and 7960X vs AMD 1950X! 18-Core i9 Benchmarks & Review

Having in mind huge price difference, I would be surprised that wasn't the case...
ID: 1891798 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Keith MyersProject Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 2424
Credit: 183,609,529
RAC: 351,742
United States
Message 1891808 - Posted: 25 Sep 2017, 19:13:17 UTC - in response to Message 1891798.  

I like the bang for the buck summation at the end of the video. The AMD 1950X has better performance per price ratio than the Intel HEDT chips.
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1891808 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 8877
Credit: 114,967,861
RAC: 69,780
Australia
Message 1891873 - Posted: 26 Sep 2017, 4:34:16 UTC - in response to Message 1891808.  

I like the bang for the buck summation at the end of the video. The AMD 1950X has better performance per price ratio than the Intel HEDT chips.

Which is good, but the fact is that Intel has the fastest & most efficient silicon again. You just need to sell body parts to be able to afford to buy one.

Given that Ryzen is an all new architecture, I expect the next revision will be considerably better than the current one (even as good as it presently is).
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1891873 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Keith MyersProject Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 2424
Credit: 183,609,529
RAC: 351,742
United States
Message 1891889 - Posted: 26 Sep 2017, 6:25:17 UTC - in response to Message 1891873.  

I like the bang for the buck summation at the end of the video. The AMD 1950X has better performance per price ratio than the Intel HEDT chips.

Which is good, but the fact is that Intel has the fastest & most efficient silicon again. You just need to sell body parts to be able to afford to buy one.

Given that Ryzen is an all new architecture, I expect the next revision will be considerably better than the current one (even as good as it presently is).

LOL. Yes the proverbial arm and a leg in play there. I suspect there will be modest incremental improvements in Ryzen 2. A bit from process technology improvements and a little bit from architecture tweaks.
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1891889 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 8877
Credit: 114,967,861
RAC: 69,780
Australia
Message 1891892 - Posted: 26 Sep 2017, 7:09:38 UTC - in response to Message 1891889.  

I suspect there will be modest incremental improvements in Ryzen 2. A bit from process technology improvements and a little bit from architecture tweaks.

From what I've read, and my own personal thoughts, I suspect the improvements will be more than just modest. While they may not match Intel's products at the time, I suspect that their IPC (Instructions Per Clock) will be very, very close to Intels by then.
And the development of software that takes advantage of the newer architectures will also give a good boost in performance.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1891892 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Keith MyersProject Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 2424
Credit: 183,609,529
RAC: 351,742
United States
Message 1891893 - Posted: 26 Sep 2017, 8:01:08 UTC - in response to Message 1891892.  

You are more an optimist than I. I have been in the AMD camp for decades. I am not used to large jumps in performance, just incremental performance gains. I can only hope your prognostication comes true. It would be nice for a change. And of course Intel certainly isn't sitting still. Just the opposite I believe. Ryzen, Threadripper and Epyc have lit a fire under Intel's butt.
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1891893 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1893343 - Posted: 5 Oct 2017, 10:40:22 UTC - in response to Message 1891798.  
Last modified: 5 Oct 2017, 10:42:59 UTC

Looks like it. Just watched Paul's Hardware YT video where the 16 core and 18 core i9X trounced the 16 core AMD 1950X fairly soundly.
Intel 7980XE and 7960X vs AMD 1950X! 18-Core i9 Benchmarks & Review

Having in mind huge price difference, I would be surprised that wasn't the case...

Not so sure on the "trounced"... There's always the game of choosing your benchmarks. Intel is still expensively 'king' for old-style single threaded tasks. Then again, you don't bother about multi-core if you are so passionate about old-years-out-of-date single threads! (I thought we'd moved on since last century!! :-P )

There's some good apt comments for that vid. For just one:

Cempaka261 (Silly vulgar ending...)
i dont know how they think people will choose 7980XE over the 1950X? twice the price and just few % better performance? it cost twice!!! my i7 6700k is my last cpu from these money grabbing...


All a 'game' and your choice :-) (If you have one...)

(I just hope the brutish gorilla in 'the game' can be restrained or otherwise become a little more cooperative to positively help the world and the users a little...)

Happy fast crunchin'!
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1893343 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 9370
Credit: 7,022,084
RAC: 5,193
United Kingdom
Message 1893345 - Posted: 5 Oct 2017, 10:55:00 UTC

Just one awesome consequence of having so many PCIe channels available as part of the standard package for AMD Ryzen:


AMD ThreadRipper NVMe RAID Released

... Now, all of the pieces are available to users. We haven't researched every single motherboard, but a quick look at select products all listed updated BIOS files. The AMD RAIDXper2 RAID Management Utility and NVMe RAID Driver for Windows was also published by AMD in the support section.

AMD chose to give the feature away as a value-add rather than charge customers, as Intel plans to do with the X299 platform. Even though X299 documentation refers to VROC and dongles needed to fully support the feature, Intel has yet to release the dongles.



Wow! Function/feature restricting super-expensive and irksome DONGLES are so user-gouging restrictive old fashioned!! How can Intel Marketing ever imagine that old trick can still work?!

AMD is a very clear winner on that score for extreme performance, and also some very worthwhile everyday performance, all as standard, immediately available.

IT is what we make it...
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1893345 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Darrell
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 03
Posts: 267
Credit: 1,371,306
RAC: 413
United States
Message 1893365 - Posted: 5 Oct 2017, 13:49:43 UTC

JayZeeTwoCents was asking about this back in June in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJNRtGo5IMc

before Threadripper was even released. Even Linus at Linus Tech Tips was ranting about Intel's strategy back in June also is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFzWRoVNnE
... and still I fear, and still I dare not laugh at the Mad Man!

Queen - The Prophet's Song
ID: 1893365 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Keith MyersProject Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 2424
Credit: 183,609,529
RAC: 351,742
United States
Message 1893367 - Posted: 5 Oct 2017, 13:57:36 UTC

Epyc and Threadripper just won Anantech Best CPUs for Workstations Overall 2017 awards.
best-cpus-for-workstations-2017

So the industry is starting to pay more attention to multi-thread performance and not just to single-thread performance.
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1893367 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 8877
Credit: 114,967,861
RAC: 69,780
Australia
Message 1893567 - Posted: 6 Oct 2017, 5:17:56 UTC - in response to Message 1893367.  

So the industry is starting to pay more attention to multi-thread performance and not just to single-thread performance.

Which industry in particular?

Good multi thread performance is great, if your software can make use of multiple threads.
If it can't, then single threaded performance is what matters.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1893567 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : AMD EPYC Benchmarks Smash the WinTel Hedgemony?...


 
©2017 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.