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Another example of USA Gun Laws (or lack of...)?
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moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Constitutions are not written in stone:) btw. We all know where Trump and his friends belong. But where do you fit in? |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19072 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
When the constitution was written the US did not have an Army. That is why the second was written, allowing men to be armed so that they could form Militia to defend the States from those barbarian Brits in the north. |
JaundicedEye Send message Joined: 14 Mar 12 Posts: 5375 Credit: 30,870,693 RAC: 1 |
Constitutions are not written in stone:) Oh, contraire mon frere, if they're more than just lip service, they ARE/MUST be written in stone. And that stone is the solid foundation the entire concept of the United States of America is built upon, and is why it is so regularly attacked by those who wish to change the US into something not at all intended by it's authors. As our greatly missed comrade Major Kong, used to do, I've started reading the Federalist Papers again, if you want insight into the concepts behind the US Constitution and the first 10 Amendments contained in the Bill of Rights, that's the penultimate authority. @ Clyde, I find the writings of Justice Scalia in DC vs Heller to be very enlightened especially when 2nd Amendment detractors try to employ the 'applies to muskets not ARs' argument specifically......... "'The Constitution was written to be understood by the voters; its words and phrases were used in their normal and ordinary as distinguished from technical meaning. United States v. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716, 731 (1931); see also Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 188 (1824). Normal meaning may of course include an idiomatic meaning, but it excludes secret or technical meanings ... ." "Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)> |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19072 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
They definitely should not be written in stone. Ask yourself, "would the Founders have written the 2nd as it is, if they had known one person with one firearm could kill nine and injure 27 other innocent people in less than 30 seconds"? The technology in 1789 would have restricted the shooter to one inaccurate shot in the same time frame. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30669 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Back when it was written the states did regulate their militia's. Undesirables were banned. Today the states don't regulate a militia, so in the 50 that don't regulate, there should not be a right to have Arms. That leaves trusts, territories and possessions. |
Stargate (SA) Send message Joined: 4 Mar 10 Posts: 1854 Credit: 2,258,721 RAC: 0 |
+1 |
JaundicedEye Send message Joined: 14 Mar 12 Posts: 5375 Credit: 30,870,693 RAC: 1 |
@Nick......... Again, Justice Scalia........... when 2nd Amendment detractors try to employ the 'applies to muskets not ARs' argument specifically......... 'Shall not be infringed' .....normal and ordinary, not secret or technical. No 'except for ' or 'limited to '. There is an Amendment process, if the MAJORITY of The People feel there is a need to change or clarify the Constitution or it's Amendments the process is available for them to do so. Unless that happens......what you read is what you've got. Same as the results of the 2016 election. "Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)> |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19072 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
@Nick......... That is not an answer to the question I asked. I didn't ask about SCOTUS I asked about the Founders. And I firmly believe the Founders would not have wished the Constitution to be written in stone and that it would be updated to reflect current technology. Plus you do have an Army these day's there is no need for the malita or the general population to carry firearms to defend the US. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19072 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Unfortunately and I really mean unfortunately. What SCOTUS believes in this case is the Law of the Land. I couldn't agree more, and with the way things have been going since the GOP blocked Obama's last nominee it is only going to get worse. |
JaundicedEye Send message Joined: 14 Mar 12 Posts: 5375 Credit: 30,870,693 RAC: 1 |
I didn't ask about SCOTUS I asked about the Founders. And I firmly believe the Founders would not have wished the Constitution to be written in stone and that it would be updated to reflect current technology. Unfortunately and I do mean unfortunately neither you, I or anyone can actually question those founding fathers. We can only read their words. When there is need of clarification or a disagreement as to their 'meaning ', SCOTUS is the body of government created and empowered to do so. Their decision is law, like it or not. Again if you want a clearer insight into the minds of the framers of the Constitution you really should read the Federalist Papers, specifically #46 on the 2nd Amendment. Plus you do have an Army these day's there is no need for the milita or the general population to carry firearms to defend the US.And that Army, under control of the Federal Government is a major reason there is a 2nd Amendment. The Founders did not want The People to be helpless when another King George comes along and decides everything belongs to him and his(i.e. Socialism) in fact despite it's being touted as 'ownership by the citizens'. Ask the citizens of Venezuela, DPRK, Cuba, Iran, China and every other such system what recourse they have if the system oppresses them. The 'Government ' should fear an armed populace not the reverse. And there is no reason for them to fear free gun owners unless they suck at 'governing'. This thought is born out by various quotes from Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and James Madison(author of the Federalist Papers) “A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…†– George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790 @ Account.......your John Stewart meme states rather clearly the reason I ignore the less than honest radical left, or 'Dims'. "Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)> |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30669 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Again if you want a clearer insight into the minds of the framers of the Constitution you really should read the Federalist Papers, specifically #46 on the 2nd Amendment.Funny, I thought that was the writing of a single one of the founders, James Madison. The Founders did not wantYou conducted a séance? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…†– George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790The man was right. However as we consistently see, the problem is the undisciplined not giving a damn for anyone but themselves. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30669 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Again if you want a clearer insight into the minds of the framers of the Constitution you really should read the Federalist Papers, specifically #46 on the 2nd Amendment.Funny, I thought that was the writing of a single one of the founders, James Madison. Byron: I don't think there is any single answer. Too many people, too many different reasons. If you are asking about those "in power" they may like it because it is ambiguous and therefore they can use it as a rallying cry for "their side." Perhaps it is just nostalgia. Too many "Westerns" and wanting "the simple life" where morals were black and white [no pun intended] |
moomin Send message Joined: 21 Oct 17 Posts: 6204 Credit: 38,420 RAC: 0 |
Sigh... This is ridiculous. Amnesty USA warns of travel to the country because of recent mass shootings. https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-releases/global-human-rights-movement-issues-travel-warning-for-the-u-s-due-to-rampant-gun-violence/ Amnesty International today issued a travel warning calling for possible travelers and visitors to the United States to exercise extreme caution when traveling throughout the country due to rampant gun violence, which has become so prevalent in the United States that it amounts to a human rights crisis.The risk that a tourist die in a traffic accident in the US is by far more likely! Traffic Deaths in U.S. Exceed 40,000 for Third Straight Year. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-13/traffic-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-40-000-for-third-straight-year |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30669 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Sigh... This is ridiculous. Yes |
j mercer Send message Joined: 3 Jun 99 Posts: 2422 Credit: 12,323,733 RAC: 1 |
Sigh... This is ridiculous. and this is counter to the 146 pages here. ROTFLMAO!!!!! ... |
JaundicedEye Send message Joined: 14 Mar 12 Posts: 5375 Credit: 30,870,693 RAC: 1 |
Two very interesting articles: @Clyde I think you are prejudging the vast majority of noncriminal gun owners. I, for one, support in depth background checks. I also reject so called 'Constitutional Carry ' laws as this allows anyone to possess and carry firearms without question. I have previously stated in this forum my support for such checks coinciding with the issuance of a National CCW license and purchase I.D. valid in all States with required renewal application every five years. This would go a long way to satisfying the 'well regulated ' argument so frequently touted. There is no way this would be passed though due to lack of recurring revenue for the government generated by repetitive checks that serve no purpose. There are many millions of legal gun owners who are NRA members that do not fully support all of that groups positions. But as the NRA is the ONLY voice available nationally to speak and act in their behalf they have no other venue or group to represent their views. "Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)> |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
When I said "gun owners will not accept extensive new gun laws". I was referring to the Left Wing Democrat's real attempt to to destroy an Individual Right that is in our Constitution.When the Constitution was written, there were 13 states with a population of 4 million, therefore it was fit for purpose. The weaponry in use were flintlock pistols & muskets, with the musket being used by a "skilled" person, an effective rate of 3 rounds a minute could be achieved. 232 years on, there are 50 states with a population of 327 million with a range of weaponry capable of 600 rounds a minute (which the writers of the Constitution would have considered sheer fantasy, even in their wildest dreams), available to all as laid down by that ancient piece of parchment. Therefore, it is no longer fit for purpose. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
For US gun rights advocates, time is an ally. After every new mass-shooting, politicians on the left call for action. Polls show continued public support new gun regulations, including comprehensive background checks on firearm purchases."Serious" talks under way - how long for this time? |
JaundicedEye Send message Joined: 14 Mar 12 Posts: 5375 Credit: 30,870,693 RAC: 1 |
Therefore, it is no longer fit for purpose.....disagree. It fits the purpose of giving pause to criminal minds and would be tyrants alike, that they are not dealing with placid sheep. “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.†– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776 "Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)> |
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