What you are advocating is to just go ahead and allow children to play freely on the Santa Monica freeway.

Is that like allowing gay marriage is advocating people marrying their dogs or inanimate objects?

You do know that there is a whole range of options between "allowing people to simply walk away" and "beating children around the head with sticks"

I do. Did you believe my response was advocating otherwise?

No, I'm getting old and I replied to the wrong post. I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

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Reality Internet Personality

What you are advocating is to just go ahead and allow children to play freely on the Santa Monica freeway.

Is that like allowing gay marriage is advocating people marrying their dogs or inanimate objects?

You do know that there is a whole range of options between "allowing people to simply walk away" and "beating children around the head with sticks"

Yes, you can let him kick and punch you. You can find out he knows martial arts. You can find out that having 40 pounds of equipment on your body puts you at a disadvantage in a street fight. You can find out that he can reach your gun and shoot you with it, if you try and wrestle. You can find out he has more stamina than your middle age body has.

Yes, maybe pepper spray or a taser would have made you feel better than a baton, but I bet you would be saying the same thing.

He chose assault and battery on a peace officer over signing a jaywalking ticket. Same thought process here: http://abc7.com/news/chris-and%20pitts-hostage-recorded-final-video-of-armed-chase-suspect/981780/

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Yes, you can let him kick and punch you. You can find out he knows martial arts. You can find out that having 40 pounds of equipment on your body puts you at a disadvantage in a street fight. You can find out that he can reach your gun and shoot you with it, if you try and wrestle. You can find out he has more stamina than your middle age body has.

Yes, maybe pepper spray or a taser would have made you feel better than a baton, but I bet you would be saying the same thing.

He chose assault and battery on a peace officer over signing a jaywalking ticket. Same thought process here: http://abc7.com/news/chris-and%20pitts-hostage-recorded-final-video-of-armed-chase-suspect/981780/

I think this post belongs in the Ephebiphobia thread.

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Reality Internet Personality

The kid chose assault and battery on a peace officer over signing a jaywalking ticket?
There seems to be a lot of peace officers in the US.
Does the video portray the law enforcement as an act to restore peace?
Here we dont see them unless someone is calling for them.
For a jaywalking or any other trafic "violation" they dont do anything about it even if they see it happens. Been there...

The kid chose assault and battery on a peace officer over signing a jaywalking ticket?
There seems to be a lot of peace officers in the US.
Does the video portray the law enforcement as an act to restore peace?
Here we dont see them unless someone is calling for them.
For a jaywalking or any other trafic "violation" they dont do anything about it even if they see it happens. Been there...

'Peace officer' is another term for 'law enforcement officer'. Some jurisdictions use one term, the rest use the other. Same meaning.

And yes, there is a rather large number of them in the USA, at all levels of Government.

There are, I am told, about 120,000 Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fleo08.pdf

State and Local *sworn* peace officers number about 765,000 full time and 44,000 part time officers in 2008 (latest available data).

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/csllea08.pdf

Now then, in addition to the Federal Law Enforcement Officers, States define lists of people as law enforcement officers/peace officers. Here is the one from Texas.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.2.htm#2.12

Art. 2.12. WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS. The following are peace officers:

(1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, town, or village, and those reserve municipal police officers who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;

(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal district attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;

(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission;

(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned by a city, a county, or the state;

(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education Code, or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;

(9) officers commissioned by the General Services Commission;

(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and Wildlife Commission;

(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a population of more than 1.18 million located primarily in a county with a population of 2 million or more that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;

(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace officers by the governing body of any political subdivision of this state, other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;

(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security officers;

(14) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers by the comptroller;

(15) officers commissioned by a water control and improvement district under Section 49.216, Water Code;

(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under Chapter 54, Transportation Code;

(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas Medical Board;

(18) officers commissioned by:

(A) the board of managers of the Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital District, the Bexar County Hospital District, or the El Paso County Hospital District under Section 281.057, Health and Safety Code;

(B) the board of directors of the Ector County Hospital District under Section 1024.117, Special District Local Laws Code; and

(C) the board of directors of the Midland County Hospital District of Midland County, Texas, under Section 1061.121, Special District Local Laws Code;

(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E, Chapter 351, Local Government Code;

(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission;

(21) officers commissioned under Chapter 554, Occupations Code;

(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108, Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;

(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general under Section 402.009, Government Code;

(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;

(25) an officer employed by the Department of State Health Services under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;

(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under Subchapter F, Chapter 53, Government Code;

(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under Chapter 417, Government Code;

(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of insurance under Section 701.104, Insurance Code;

(29) apprehension specialists and inspectors general commissioned by the Texas Juvenile Justice Department as officers under Sections 242.102 and 243.052, Human Resources Code;

(30) officers appointed by the inspector general of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice under Section 493.019, Government Code;

(31) investigators commissioned by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement under Section 1701.160, Occupations Code;

(32) commission investigators commissioned by the Texas Private Security Board under Section 1702.061(f), Occupations Code;

(33) the fire marshal and any officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by an emergency services district under Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code;

(34) officers commissioned by the State Board of Dental Examiners under Section 254.013, Occupations Code, subject to the limitations imposed by that section;

(35) investigators commissioned by the Texas Juvenile Justice Department as officers under Section 221.011, Human Resources Code; and

(36) the fire marshal and any related officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by a county under Subchapter B, Chapter 352, Local Government Code.

Now, some of this list are limited in scope to only certain locations in the State, or only on certain activities... but ALL can arrest you, on their turf.

Most people when they hear the term 'police' think of only category 1 (and 2 if you are a Texan -- constables here have full police powers) (County 'police'), category 3 (city police), and 4 (State police). There are 32 (or 34, depending on how you count them up) OTHER varieties of 'police' in Texas. The term 'peace officer' is used in Texas (and quite a number of other Jurisdictions) to signify the entire list.

The kid chose assault and battery on a peace officer over signing a jaywalking ticket?
There seems to be a lot of peace officers in the US.
Does the video portray the law enforcement as an act to restore peace?
Here we dont see them unless someone is calling for them.
For a jaywalking or any other trafic "violation" they dont do anything about it even if they see it happens. Been there...

'Peace officer' is another term for 'law enforcement officer'. Some jurisdictions use one term, the rest use the other. Same meaning.

And yes, there is a rather large number of them in the USA, at all levels of Government.

There are, I am told, about 120,000 Federal Law Enforcement Officers.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fleo08.pdf

State and Local *sworn* peace officers number about 765,000 full time and 44,000 part time officers in 2008 (latest available data).

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/csllea08.pdf

Now then, in addition to the Federal Law Enforcement Officers, States define lists of people as law enforcement officers/peace officers. Here is the one from Texas.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.2.htm#2.12

Art. 2.12. WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS. The following are peace officers:

(1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, town, or village, and those reserve municipal police officers who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;

(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal district attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;

(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission;

(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned by a city, a county, or the state;

(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education Code, or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;

(9) officers commissioned by the General Services Commission;

(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and Wildlife Commission;

(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a population of more than 1.18 million located primarily in a county with a population of 2 million or more that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;

(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace officers by the governing body of any political subdivision of this state, other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;

(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security officers;

(14) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers by the comptroller;

(15) officers commissioned by a water control and improvement district under Section 49.216, Water Code;

(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under Chapter 54, Transportation Code;

(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas Medical Board;

(18) officers commissioned by:

(A) the board of managers of the Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital District, the Bexar County Hospital District, or the El Paso County Hospital District under Section 281.057, Health and Safety Code;

(B) the board of directors of the Ector County Hospital District under Section 1024.117, Special District Local Laws Code; and

(C) the board of directors of the Midland County Hospital District of Midland County, Texas, under Section 1061.121, Special District Local Laws Code;

(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E, Chapter 351, Local Government Code;

(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission;

(21) officers commissioned under Chapter 554, Occupations Code;

(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108, Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;

(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general under Section 402.009, Government Code;

(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;

(25) an officer employed by the Department of State Health Services under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;

(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under Subchapter F, Chapter 53, Government Code;

(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under Chapter 417, Government Code;

(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of insurance under Section 701.104, Insurance Code;

(29) apprehension specialists and inspectors general commissioned by the Texas Juvenile Justice Department as officers under Sections 242.102 and 243.052, Human Resources Code;

(30) officers appointed by the inspector general of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice under Section 493.019, Government Code;

(31) investigators commissioned by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement under Section 1701.160, Occupations Code;

(32) commission investigators commissioned by the Texas Private Security Board under Section 1702.061(f), Occupations Code;

(33) the fire marshal and any officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by an emergency services district under Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code;

(34) officers commissioned by the State Board of Dental Examiners under Section 254.013, Occupations Code, subject to the limitations imposed by that section;

(35) investigators commissioned by the Texas Juvenile Justice Department as officers under Section 221.011, Human Resources Code; and

(36) the fire marshal and any related officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by a county under Subchapter B, Chapter 352, Local Government Code.

Now, some of this list are limited in scope to only certain locations in the State, or only on certain activities... but ALL can arrest you, on their turf.

Most people when they hear the term 'police' think of only category 1 (and 2 if you are a Texan -- constables here have full police powers) (County 'police'), category 3 (city police), and 4 (State police). There are 32 (or 34, depending on how you count them up) OTHER varieties of 'police' in Texas. The term 'peace officer' is used in Texas (and quite a number of other Jurisdictions) to signify the entire list.

Oops 36 regulations how to regulate "police peace" order.
I know for certain that no police/"peace" officer knows about these orders.
Not only in the US!

How did we get into this mess?

The war on drugs.

You also see this in our schools. Where scared Teachers and Administrators call the Police. Who, because they are also scared of any repercussions if they don't go 'By The Book': Arrest the child.

We see this here as well:(

Anyway. This is our police force, sort of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldN8HjPITw
Kopps (Swedish Movie) English Subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU6LO_Z2Vig

Malmö, Sweden. Police officers with drawn weapons did an effort against three guys in their early teens. The boys, who had soft airguns, was forced to the ground by police who shouted at the boys to drop their weapons.

- I saw four uniformed police officers in a civilian car came rushing into the park where the three boys were and how the two of them drew their weapons and forced down the children on the ground, said a witness told DN.

While the boys, the youngest only 13 years, low to the ground arrived another six or seven police officers to the scene.

Several witnesses at the site responded with outrage at the actions of the police but the police themselves say that there is something to be expected.
- If you go around waving a weapon such as a risk that it ends badly, says Calle Persson of Skåne police to DN, and continues:
- In the worst case, it may well be that a police officer shoots back with real ammo!

Take care there, in the USA. You misbehave, they kill you: US driver shot from police helicopter. In a civilised country, never.

That's right in a civilized country they would let you run 100+ MPH into some poor mom with her kids in the car. He was playing British driver on American road, driving on the wrong side of a divided highway.

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Take care there, in the USA. You misbehave, they kill you: US driver shot from police helicopter. In a civilised country, never.

That's right in a civilized country they would let you run 100+ MPH into some poor mom with her kids in the car. He was playing British driver on American road, driving on the wrong side of a divided highway.

"The driverless SUV crashed head-on into a Dodge Durango injuring three people, one of whom remains in hospital, police added."

Was is really about safety?

Usually when someone does that in the UK they are fenced in by police cars and forcibly slowed down. Taking out the driver of a speeding car seems reckless to me.

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Reality Internet Personality

Take care there, in the USA. You misbehave, they kill you: US driver shot from police helicopter. In a civilised country, never.

That's right in a civilized country they would let you run 100+ MPH into some poor mom with her kids in the car. He was playing British driver on American road, driving on the wrong side of a divided highway.

"The driverless SUV crashed head-on into a Dodge Durango injuring three people, one of whom remains in hospital, police added."

Was is really about safety?

Usually when someone does that in the UK they are fenced in by police cars and forcibly slowed down. Taking out the driver of a speeding car seems reckless to me.

They do that here too, just hard when the person is going the wrong way on a divided highway.
There is some video of the location in this report.
http://abc7.com/news/deputies-in-helicopter-shoot-wrong-way-driver-after-chase/991282/

"If a guy's fleeing, going the wrong way on the freeway, bad things are going to happen," said Richard Allinson, a visitor from Texas.

Perhaps after watching it you can see options for that situation and location are very limited.

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Take care there, in the USA. You misbehave, they kill you: US driver shot from police helicopter. In a civilised country, never.

Uppsala Sweden
Tow men was chased by the police after having shied away from a gasoline bill of 288 crowns.
A bridge was opened to stop the men, but it turned into a death trap. The two men in their 20s died when they drove through the boom, over the edge and crashed into the water. A solid barrier of that kind may be used only if it is "extremely indicate the position to immediately stop a vehicle."

Previously it has been clear that the police may keep the job.
Due to minor crimes and those of the two in the car were suspected, and the acute traffic situation, it was not justifiable to use a fixed obstacle, given the risks involved in it, reasoning the court.
The police officers are therefore considered to have been negligent and sentenced for misconduct.

He was playing British driver on American road, driving on the wrong side of a divided highway.

In a civilised country they would stop the traffic and place a spike mat on the road. They would never start a killing rampage.

A spike mat on a highway?
First you have to stop the trafic, then someone place a spike mat.
That takes a long time.

He was playing British driver on American road, driving on the wrong side of a divided highway.

In a civilised country they would stop the traffic and place a spike mat on the road. They would never start a killing rampage.

Did you read the article? It sounds like the driver was a danger to all others on the road and to me any means to stop him were justified.

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He was playing British driver on American road, driving on the wrong side of a divided highway.

In a civilised country they would stop the traffic and place a spike mat on the road. They would never start a killing rampage.

A spike mat on a highway?
First you have to stop the trafic, then someone place a spike mat.
That takes a long time.

He is right, a police state where there are four+ cops on every corner so they can stop traffic in ten seconds, would be be a civilized society.

With the bad guy (known to be armed and dangerous) going 100mph (161kph) the wrong way and traffic going 70mph (113kph) the right way the closure rate would be 170mph (274kph). So for the next 15-20 minutes you are going to let this go on while you try and stop traffic to put out a spike mat. Yeah right.

Suicide by cop takes many forms.

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OMG. Jaqueline's brother from Ghana just jaywalked coming home from school!
Should I call the police so they can beat him up?
He is about 10 years old. How many cops are needed?

OMG. Jaqueline's brother from Ghana just jaywalked coming home from school!
Should I call the police so they can beat him up?
He is about 10 years old. How many cops are needed?

There is probably a formula related to the darkness of his skin.

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Reality Internet Personality

OMG. Jaqueline's brother from Ghana just jaywalked coming home from school!
Should I call the police so they can beat him up?
He is about 10 years old. How many cops are needed?

There is probably a formula related to the darkness of his skin.

Well...

I grew up in a White Immigrant Neighborhood, and patrolled White/Hispanic/Black, Lower/Middle/Upper Class Neighborhoods. In addition to Tourist Area's.

No difference regarding Police Actions, of course. Excepting 'Class'.

BTW:

As a white youth 'with sin'. I was struck, roughed up, thrown against wall, etc., by police. This also included my white friends.

As a middle aged 'White Guy'. I was taken out of my vehicle, at gun point, by the cops, regarding an investigation.

Using Es99 thinking:

We have to stop these Anti-White Bigoted Cops!!!

Clyde, you've described bad experiences with cops that I have never had. Never.

The question is, how many similar stories to black people have? Do you think these things happen to them the same amount? Less? More?

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Reality Internet Personality

If you put 'Class' in the equation?

Just an anecdotal experience.

For two years, while on Unformed Patrol. My Sector (Vehicle Patrol), included three separate and distinct Black Neighborhoods.

Starting from the South and going North:

Poor Black. Very high violent street crime. Also included 'Store Front' for the Black Panther's. Many, many, many arrests. Including Violent Confrontations with Police.

Separated by a wide street:

Lower Middle Class, Middle Class Black. Very little violent Street Crime, excepting those entering from The South. Most arrests of those living there, were for Domestic, Drunk Driving, etc. Very little violent confrontations with police.

Separated by a wide street:

Upper Middle Class and Wealthy Black. Only Police Response were from 911 calls reporting a crime. Interestingly... They would refer to Black criminals as the KKK would (guess which word).

The Black neighborhoods, reminded me of similar White neighborhoods.

If you are making the point that poverty and crime are linked, I don't think anyone would argue with you.

If we are using anecdotal evidence I overheard two business men on the train who worked in insurance complaining about how rising unemployment was affecting the crime rate.

However, recent police taken down of a black tennis star does suggest that its more than just class.

Black Tennis Star Tackled By 5 White Police Officers

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Reality Internet Personality