Why was eating pork a bad idea? Why do Jews and Muslims still have a rule about it?

Sarge an hypothesis that has been advanced is trichinosis.

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Meant in all seriousness ... .
Discuss the following:

1) Why have, and continue to be, murder and rape been "bad ideas" (to put it mildly).

Are you suggesting that people don't do these things because religion tells the it is a bad idea to hurt people? Anyone with empathy hates hurting others. So maybe you should examine the role of empathy in human biology and species survival.

2) Why was eating pork a bad idea? Why do Jews and Muslims still have a rule about it? Why do Christians not, when Jesus never said part of the New Covenant was the removal of the rule against eating pork? Is there a reason eating pork is no longer a bad idea?

Not all religions ban the eating of pork, although I understand it is because pigs eat waste.

3) Why was sex between two men a bad idea in the past? What was different then that may not have continued in to the present?

Where in the past? In ancient Greece the love between two men was considered the purest love of all.

EDIT: Sure, if you need to believe to be good, that's fine. Right.

...and some people need religion to cope with depression, trauma, drug addiction etc and it works for them. What would you offer those people instead?

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Reality Internet Personality

Meant in all seriousness ... .
Discuss the following:

1) Why have, and continue to be, murder and rape been "bad ideas" (to put it mildly).

Are you suggesting that people don't do these things because religion tells the it is a bad idea to hurt people? Anyone with empathy hates hurting others. So maybe you should examine the role of empathy in human biology and species survival.

Some can not accept that ethics and morals are the same despite the dictionary saying they are. This usually because the person sees themselves as better that others, hence able to engage in racist thought processes of stereotyping and xenophobia, and thereby claiming morals are superior. Morals however are just some other persons list of ethics as ascribed to a mythical being.

2) Why was eating pork a bad idea? Why do Jews and Muslims still have a rule about it? Why do Christians not, when Jesus never said part of the New Covenant was the removal of the rule against eating pork? Is there a reason eating pork is no longer a bad idea?

Not all religions ban the eating of pork, although I understand it is because pigs eat waste.

True answer lost to time. May be some combination of several things related to the lack of food safety knowledge at the time the various religions were invented by man.

3) Why was sex between two men a bad idea in the past? What was different then that may not have continued in to the present?

Where in the past? In ancient Greece the love between two men was considered the purest love of all.

Who says it was universally thought of as bad? Proof please? And that means expert peer reviewed study from every culture ever existent on earth.

EDIT: Sure, if you need to believe to be good, that's fine. Right.

...and some people need religion to cope with depression, trauma, drug addiction etc and it works for them. What would you offer those people instead?

Gestalt or perhaps a rope? Yes, I get that there are people out there who need to use transference to a mythical anthropomorphized being to cope with life. I'm not sure that is healthy for the species, when done in mass.

Seriously, if we ever are to encounter an advanced ET we had better toughen up the human race now. No more self pity and woe. No waste of humanity to drug abuse. No mollycoddled lazy butt leaches. Everyone will need to contribute to humanity in some positive form. Of course no government or official should make decisions on an individual, but worldwide policies can be put in place to reward and discourage various actions as we do now with tax policy. One might be to allow any drug you want upon registration, but have "DNR" tattooed across your forehead so all will know not to waste precious resources on you when they come across you lying OD'd in the gutter. Yes, harsh, but life is harsh. Darwin's law is just waiting for us to not learn and adapt.

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Found this bit of information on the net, not quite sure what to think of it.

http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elite/2015/01/internet-trolling-and-the-war-against-god-2447756.html

The article is pure rubbish, seizing up on the natural fear of Christians that they are the ones being persecuted by a constant onslaught of attacks from "Satanic Zionists" (whatever that means), continues the fear-driven agenda by stating that the Schiff family financed the Russian Revolution that killed 60 million Christians - the same assertion that suggests JP Morgan and the Schiffs are part of the Illuminati, and in closing uses powerful words to evoke emotions indicating that there's a conspiracy to destroy everyone's very souls.

Of course, the article seems to do a good job of highlighting what most believers fear most of the Atheism movement in general, but even more so it emphasizes the great misunderstanding believers have about Atheism, and given my many discussions with believers in general, I'm starting to think there will never be an understanding from believers about what it is to be Atheist. Case in point: look at all the believer's responses in this thread.

Thought so it was rubbish, thanx.

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I often wonder what would 1 of the Great astronomers & cosmologists of 20th century, late Carl Sagan, would tell to all those Atheists...& why did he turn to Agnostic?

if he was alive, I would ask him that question...more than any other!

& 2nd Q would be: do u like what your baby, SETi has become?
;)

Carl Sagan was a full Atheist.
This book may answer your question.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle/dp/0345409469

Steve

check your facts again:
Wiki wrote:

In reply to a question in 1996 about his religious beliefs, Sagan answered, "I'm agnostic."[69] Sagan maintained that the idea of a creator God of the Universe was difficult to prove or disprove and that the only conceivable scientific discovery that could challenge it would be an infinitely old universe.[70] Sagan's views on religion have been interpreted as a form of pantheism comparable to Einstein's belief in Spinoza's God.[71]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan#Personal_life_and_beliefs
;)

Most Atheists I know are open to changing their mind given enough evidence to support an idea or hypothesis.

Nice to hear. There is a God after all:)

Any evidence to further qualify and support that statement? ;-P

if there was a VIVID evidence 4 every1 2 C - it wouldn't B called BELIEF, would it?
:D

also, if u know how 2 look & where 2 look...u can C a work of Creator / Designer!
;)

Also, if you want to account for all the bad things religion supposedly causes, you also need to account all the good things religion also causes. And in general, the overwhelming majority of religious people are good people who in their way try to do good. And often, their way of doing good doesn't even differ from the way atheists try to do good.

I agree that some people need religion to be good people, that's fine, atheists can also do good things and be good people. However, what you do see is religious people using their religion to justify bad things.

Meant in all seriousness ... .
Discuss the following:

1) Why have, and continue to be, murder and rape been "bad ideas" (to put it mildly).

2) Why was eating pork a bad idea? Why do Jews and Muslims still have a rule about it? Why do Christians not, when Jesus never said part of the New Covenant was the removal of the rule against eating pork? Is there a reason eating pork is no longer a bad idea?

3) Why was sex between two men a bad idea in the past? What was different then that may not have continued in to the present?

EDIT: Sure, if you need to believe to be good, that's fine. Right.

Answers:
1. if u need an answer 2 that Q, u definitively need a psychiatric help!

2.
- try to slaughter a pork in Middle east & prepare d meat...it will B clear 2 u! also, there is a problem about pork eating habits & it's meat...
- they live in Middle east...
- rule against eating pork was in Bible 'cause of their eating habits & it's meat...but many don't practice that rule...Christan & other...
- no, eating pork is still a bad idea...nutritionally!

3. gay sex is all about dominance & submission - analog 2 animal kind...even in old Greek a small boy would give himself 2 older man, but when he grows up he would dominate other boys...so nothing has changed!
also, all faiths says we r all equal...
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

The simple fact is.............
God exists in the mind of those men who choose to believe in Him.
Whether he existed in the blood and body of our race as expressed in the gospels and other biblical writings. There is no doubt that his presence cannot be documented to some's satisfaction.

He did live, he did pass on. And what his appearance here on this earth means to the rest of humanity is an ongoing argument.

I happen to believe what I have been taught. That God sent his only son here to live upon this earth with us to try to teach us how to live. And the Roman courts, unable to find a reason to imprison him, and unable to find a reason not to, sent him to the cross.

He gave his life for us upon the cross of Roman crucifixion...
Yes, it was a political crucifixion, as the Romans had neither fear of his power or belief in it.

There is some hope in believing in things one cannot either prove or disprove.

That is what religion brings to life. Hope. In that we may one day become something better than we are today.

Please do not make fun of it, but I shall post now a thing that has always held my heart.

I could tell you this too....., but I think you might listen a little longer told by some comic character.

Fact remains..........I believe.

And that could be based in science as well...............
Because I do NOT belive that the myriad of chemical processes that are required to allow each of us to breath another breath are happenstance or evolution.
They are too complex to have evolved by chance.
\
There was a creator, and his name is God.

Whether or not 'HE' is the God or Jesus of biblical connotations, I do not know, but that creator was not of our kind, and made us from scratch in his deepest thoughts.

Meow for now.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Good post Mark, a very fair synopsis of how you see it, without bashing either way.

+1

I do not bash either way on religion.
I say what I believe.

You asked me not to try to 'convert' you.
And I do not. I only state my beliefs, and let you to come to you own conclusions.

I believe in God.
It has given me much peace over the years, and that is really what it is about.
I have not entered a church in many years now, although I must confess (no pun intended) that I am thinking that I should.-

I remain open minded, but I am rather steadfast in my belief.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

However, Atheist are more likely to base their views on facts or theories (even if those theories might prove to be wrong such as "free market" idiologies) rather than some fairytale written down in a book several thousand years ago.

You'll find that most Christian politicians aren't that different. For example, take a look at Angela Merkel, she's with the German Christian democrats, but can you say she lets the bible dictate all her political actions? Obama is a Christian as well, but to claim that he tries to impose Christian values on everyone is just ridiculous (and indeed, its even what some conservative politicians criticize him for). You are conflating the actions of conservative politicians who use religion to pander to a certain demographic with the actions of all Christians, which is ridiculous.

Not all religious people, sure, but you find that most of these fanatics are religious. There is some sort of correlation between irrational thoughts and irrational actions.

Are they? I'm pretty sure that nationalism has caused two world wars, which were both some of the bloodiest conflicts in human history. And before there was Islamic terrorism there was Communist terrorism. And even today, while its severely under reported, the right wing extremism kills more people in the US than Islamic extremism. And no, those right wing gun nuts aren't killing in the name of Christianity. So are most extremists religious? Nah, thats mostly a reporting bias. The media focuses on Islamic extremism and ignores all other types of extremism.

Furthermore, there may be a correlation between what you call 'irrational thoughts' (and I do object to the idea that a belief in God is necessarily 'irrational') and irrational actions. But as you know, correlation does not necessarily imply a causal link. In this case, there most certainly is not a causal link between religion and religious extremism (I know that sounds weird).

The evidence of this is painfully obvious really. First of all, we can look at the people who turn to extremism. Its a fairly obvious type of person, namely young male, unemployed and with little to no perspective on a better life, marginalized by society. In the case of Western Muslims also often small time criminals turned devout. Those people share their religion with a billion other people, but if religion is the causal factor here, then why does it affect only such a very specific type of person, people who happen to have no perspective on an successful future? Furthermore, why is this type of person also quite often involved in non religious extremist groups?

Then there is the areas in which religious extremism happens the most, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Somalia and Nigeria. Basically only failed states or extremely weak states, which lack social cohesion, where the state has no clear monopoly of violence, which lack stable state institutions, etc. Religion knows no borders, if religion was the causal factor then why is religious extremism so very clearly contained to very specific areas? Why doesn't it occur far more often in a much wider part of the world?

Large scale violence follows rather specific patterns. It is relatively simple to predict where large scale violence will occur. Religion is not part of this pattern.

I agree that some people need religion to be good people, that's fine, atheists can also do good things and be good people. However, what you do see is religious people using their religion to justify bad things.

Yeah, some people use religion as an excuse to murder other people. And other people use religion as a way to bridge gaps between people and bring about a more peaceful society.

Religion as an excuse to be a hateful person is just that, an excuse. If you take away the excuse, it won't stop the violence, people will just find another excuse to be a hateful person. Take racism for example, it used to be based on supposedly scientific evidence. When that evidence was thoroughly debunked and the sciences that supported those notions where downgraded to pseudoscience, did that stop people from being racist? Is racism over now that there is no reasonable excuse for being a racist? Well, just look at the popularity of racist politicians in Europe and the US.

Now you might argue that good people don't need religion to be good, but that is not entirely true. Religion, because it transcends borders, manages to unite communities from all over the world. I have nothing in common with the average person from Brazil, except my religious background. That gives me some sort of shared experience with people from all over the world, which can be used as a basis to help each other out. It is no surprise that the first attempts at nation building where done using religion as a shared experience under which people could unite. Atheism lacks this, because at best their shared experience is a mutual disinterest in religion. Thats not much of a shared experience and once the entire world would turn Atheist it would completely vanish. Of course, they could try a more humanist approach, using the 'we are all humans' as the common ground between people, but frankly that approach is far to vague and general to really work for most people. After all, what does shared humanity mean when you compare a middle class American with a Vietnamese factory worker?

There is of course also nationalism which has proven to be an effective way of uniting large groups of people as well, but nationalism has severe limits, because its linked to the territory of a state. As a result its far more divisive than religion, which has a far more cosmopolitan character.

I see your point, and it is certainly a big part of the picture. However you will notice that these conservatives seem to be drawn to religion because it serves their purposes and it doesn't require critical thinking.

They aren't drawn to religion, they are born with it. Its part of their culture. Yes, they use it, but that is only because its what a good part of their electorate already believes. I mean, why come up with secular arguments against abortion if you already have perfectly good religious arguments that your electorate already buys into? As for their lack of critical thinking skills, I wouldn't blame religion for that. I'd argue its more a 'respect your elders' kind of thing. Their churches may reinforce that view, but thats on their churches, not on religion in general.

My own situation as I see it is this, Chris...........

I believe in a creator.
Which I have been taught to believe is........God.

My God was taught to me to be a Christian god. The Christ child, born of the blood of Jesus Christ, of Nazareth.

He gave his blood so that all of our sins could thenforth be forgiven.

I believe in this.

Nothing can sway me on this.

Let me go a little further.

Whether our 'creator' was a mythical being of times very as others have presented, we are the spawn of otherworldly beings, I do not know.


As you all know, I have preseneted myself as prot, from Kpax/.

I have some experience witb those thought procsses too.


I have love of life, master of kitties.
And God, whatever he may be, has blessed me with these gifts.
Meow.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

2) Why was eating pork a bad idea? Why do Jews and Muslims still have a rule about it? Why do Christians not, when Jesus never said part of the New Covenant was the removal of the rule against eating pork? Is there a reason eating pork is no longer a bad idea?

I think I have an answer to that.
Pigs, that are "haram", are more prone to parasites and diseases than lambs.
So it's looks more like a health regulation to me.

He has made unlawful for you that which dies of itself and blood and the flesh of swine and that on which the name of any other than God has been invoked. But he who is driven by necessity, being neither disobedient nor exceeding the limit, then surely, God is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

—Quran, Al-Baqara 2:173

Note that you can eat the flesh of swine if you are driven by necessity.

Lots of regulations in the Koran. Allahu Akbar:)

Most Atheists I know are open to changing their mind given enough evidence to support an idea or hypothesis.

Nice to hear. There is a God after all:)

Any evidence to further qualify and support that statement? ;-P

if there was a VIVID evidence 4 every1 2 C - it wouldn't B called BELIEF, would it? :D

No, it wouldn't be called belief/faith, but that's a good thing. If I claimed I could fly via self-propulsion, but I could only do it when no one else was looking, would you take my word for it on faith alone? My point is, when it comes to other humans, even the faithful require evidence, but as soon as God (or angels, etc) is introduced to the conversation, suddenly the bar for proof is lowered considerably.

also, if u know how 2 look & where 2 look...u can C a work of Creator / Designer! ;)

I used to say the same stuff when I was a believer. I can't tell you how much that type of statement is truly meaningless from the other side of the fence.

Wow.
Some epic misreads
and nussubf the
Overall 'Point'.

Please ... try again.

Well...
Both Secular Theology (Ideology), and Religious Theology:
Are both indications of an underlying mental illness.
So?

I would include Science as an Ideology.
Science is very much about beliefs since we have to rely on what scientists says.
Some scientists are like priests...

Science is the closest mechanism we have to learning 'The Truth'.

The Truth?
Scientists cant even explain what reality is. :)

Never mind.
Science makes sense to me.
No God needed.
And if there is a God, He/She will turn up.

Come to think about it.
Politicians. Why do we believe them?
Oops My great grandfather was an MP.

...
3. gay sex is all about dominance & submission - analog 2 animal kind...even in old Greek a small boy would give himself 2 older man, but when he grows up he would dominate other boys...so nothing has changed!
also, all faiths says we r all equal...
;)

Well this is bizarre..I have never heard this claim before...i take it you don't know many gay people and you are also ignorant of how heterosexual intercourse has been used to dominate people?

This is probably one of the strangest claims I have seen written on this forum and that is saying something.

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Reality Internet Personality

Sex used to dominate? Possibly.

Does it depend on who's 'On Top'?

:) :) :)

I believe what he was describing is rape, although he may not have realised it.

How did rape become a weapon of war?

I can think of plenty of war zones right now where this is going on.

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Reality Internet Personality

...
3. gay sex is all about dominance & submission - analog 2 animal kind...even in old Greek a small boy would give himself 2 older man, but when he grows up he would dominate other boys...so nothing has changed!
also, all faiths says we r all equal...
;)

Well this is bizarre..I have never heard this claim before...i take it you don't know many gay people and you are also ignorant of how heterosexual intercourse has been used to dominate people?

This is probably one of the strangest claims I have seen written on this forum and that is saying something.

I have heard this claim. Probably more than once. Having heard it is not a comment about whether fact or not.

Lots of newbies around in 2015 Sarge, most still learning the ropes. Be kind, giggle up your sleeve.

Not talking about the newbies. Really, the words/thoughts put on me make no sense given what the respondents know of me. That they missed a suggested link is also odd.

Lots of newbies around in 2015 Sarge, most still learning the ropes. Be kind, giggle up your sleeve.

Not talking about the newbies. Really, the words/thoughts put on me make no sense given what the respondents know of me. That they missed a suggested link is also odd.

Sometimes your posting style is very opaque.

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Reality Internet Personality

Lots of newbies around in 2015 Sarge, most still learning the ropes. Be kind, giggle up your sleeve.

Not talking about the newbies. Really, the words/thoughts put on me make no sense given what the respondents know of me. That they missed a suggested link is also odd.

Sometimes your posting style is very opaque.

There are times for it and reasons for the times.
It should not be difficult to understand what I was getting at in that particular post.
Did you follow the link?