And then the UK threatens to leave? Well, okay that would suck, and France and Germany would not be happy about it. But that might not be enough, and opening yourself to what comes down to political blackmail might have much more severe long term consequences that aren't worth having the UK around.[/quote]


Hopefully we will have a referendum on the EU coz its changed a hell of a lot , im 41 and Gt Britain signed up for the EEC that became the EU its not the same thing anymore from what it was . If David Cameron can get Britain a better "deal" good for him and im all for that . The EU has a lot of benefits for Britain but theres some big "cons" as well .
I personaly hope Gt Britain will vote for staying in and not going its own way but theres a hell of a lot of people here that DONT like Brussels telling us how to run our country !!!

It's all called political manoeuvring. The UK has a strong role to play in Europe and the rest of the world, and yes I think we can demand it. Now then let us state an incontrovertible fact.

The EU will be a bigger loser that the UK if we withdraw from Europe. Even fiscal bully Merkel knows that.

If we go we go, your choice guys.

Nah, not really. The EU loses a big economy and powerful political player, and it will upset the balance between France and Germany. Those are significant blows, definitely.

But what will the UK lose? Access to the single market, at least until reentry terms are negotiated. Access to Brussels and the EU institutions, meaning that while the UK remains bound by all kinds of EU rules, they have absolutely no say on them. And the financial hearth of Europe might actually move to Europe. There is no reason for most of those banks that currently operate from the City to remain there if the City is no longer EU territory. So, maybe we see them move to Frankfurt or Brussels, where they can remain close to the source of power, and have unrestricted access to the single market.

What will the UK gain? Nothing it wouldn't have gotten if it had remained a member of the EU. So, who will be the biggest loser, the EU or the UK.

I personaly hope Gt Britain will vote for staying in and not going its own way but theres a hell of a lot of people here that DONT like Brussels telling us how to run our country !!!

Then by all means, vote against leaving the EU. You see, as the UK plans it, they want to have access to the EU single market in a similar way that Iceland and Norway have. But what those idiot politicians forget to tell you is that Iceland and Norway need to stick to most EU rules in order to gain access to the single market. Except where Member States get a say about what happens in Brussels, countries like Norway and Iceland don't. Those 'dictates' from Brussels are actual dictates for them, while for the Member States they are rules they agreed on themselves.

I personaly hope Gt Britain will vote for staying in and not going its own way but theres a hell of a lot of people here that DONT like Brussels telling us how to run our country !!!

Then by all means, vote against leaving the EU. You see, as the UK plans it, they want to have access to the EU single market in a similar way that Iceland and Norway have. But what those idiot politicians forget to tell you is that Iceland and Norway need to stick to most EU rules in order to gain access to the single market. Except where Member States get a say about what happens in Brussels, countries like Norway and Iceland don't. Those 'dictates' from Brussels are actual dictates for them, while for the Member States they are rules they agreed on themselves.

New Zealand trades with the EU and the're not part of this Union. So what
benefit does the UK get out of being a member that New Zealand does not?
...start the ball rolling....

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

On the whole I think we can safely say that since the UK is twice as densely populated compared to Germany and three times more densely populated than France then time those two countries played catch-up with us.

They do actually, especially Germany. When it comes to taking in refugees from Syria, Germany lets in ten thousand, and the UK? Eh, about 500 over a 3 year period. And then about another 1500-2000 a year in Asylum seekers.

....and there's been no backlash by the German people over this????

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

It's all called political manoeuvring. The UK has a strong role to play in Europe and the rest of the world, and yes I think we can demand it. Now then let us state an incontrovertible fact.

The EU will be a bigger loser that the UK if we withdraw from Europe. Even fiscal bully Merkel knows that.

If we go we go, your choice guys.

+1

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

On the whole I think we can safely say that since the UK is twice as densely populated compared to Germany and three times more densely populated than France then time those two countries played catch-up with us.

They do actually, especially Germany. When it comes to taking in refugees from Syria, Germany lets in ten thousand, and the UK? Eh, about 500 over a 3 year period. And then about another 1500-2000 a year in Asylum seekers.

....and there's been no backlash by the German people over this????

Of course not.

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New Zealand trades with the EU and the're not part of this Union. So what
benefit does the UK get out of being a member that New Zealand does not?
...start the ball rolling....

For one, the UK gets to define policy within the EU. It gets to use the EU to further its own agenda. Secondly, the UK is part of the internal market, which is good for trade and businesses.

Sure, New Zealand gets to trade with the EU, but they are not part of the internal market.

....and there's been no backlash by the German people over this????

Yes, and an backlash against that backlash. What does it matter if there is a backlash?

On the whole I think we can safely say that since the UK is twice as densely populated compared to Germany and three times more densely populated than France then time those two countries played catch-up with us.

They do actually, especially Germany. When it comes to taking in refugees from Syria, Germany lets in ten thousand, and the UK? Eh, about 500 over a 3 year period. And then about another 1500-2000 a year in Asylum seekers.

....and there's been no backlash by the German people over this????

Of course not.

Nice one Gary...

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

New Zealand trades with the EU and the're not part of this Union. So what
benefit does the UK get out of being a member that New Zealand does not?
...start the ball rolling....

For one, the UK gets to define policy within the EU. It gets to use the EU to further its own agenda. Secondly, the UK is part of the internal market, which is good for trade and businesses.

Sure, New Zealand gets to trade with the EU, but they are not part of the internal market.

You mean their not part of the EU closed shop....

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

New Zealand trades with the EU and the're not part of this Union. So what
benefit does the UK get out of being a member that New Zealand does not?
...start the ball rolling....

For one, the UK gets to define policy within the EU. It gets to use the EU to further its own agenda. Secondly, the UK is part of the internal market, which is good for trade and businesses.

Sure, New Zealand gets to trade with the EU, but they are not part of the internal market.

You mean their not part of the EU closed shop....

& we know what "closed shops" did to this country...

England should stand alone and deal with its own mess. Scotland shouldn't have to go along with their nonsense.

We no not have any mess thank you very much, nor any nonsense, only in your biased opinion. Refer to my previous post please.

By definition most opinions are biased, some of us are just more aware of our biases than others.

If you think of the UK like Panem in the Hunger Games, then the south is like the Capitol, and Ireland, Scotland, Wales and the North of England are like the districts. That should give you a sense of how people generally feel about the politicians in London and the decisions they make for the rest of the country.

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Reality Internet Personality

New Zealand trades with the EU and the're not part of this Union. So what
benefit does the UK get out of being a member that New Zealand does not?
...start the ball rolling....

For one, the UK gets to define policy within the EU. It gets to use the EU to further its own agenda. Secondly, the UK is part of the internal market, which is good for trade and businesses.

Sure, New Zealand gets to trade with the EU, but they are not part of the internal market.

You mean their not part of the EU closed shop....

& we know what "closed shops" did to this country...

Did a lot of harm to the American auto industry.
For the benefit of free world trading what's the point of belonging to the EU.
If every country operated zero tariff trading Brussels would become redundant.
Unfortunately though free market principles would operate and
those countries like China that can produce products cheaper than the EU
would dominate everywhere. Much like the UK did during their two industrial
revolutions. To stop this then we operate a cartel system utilising
ant-dumping tariffs against non-EU member countries. Each EU member country
could operate this way without the need of Brussels....'scratching head' and
getting splinters, I ask my self,"What's the point of the EU in the first
place then"? Simple, the EU is a cartel club, come and join us and get a
dose of freebie European trading. Plus we will protect your back with
tariffs applied to those non-EU member countries who make goodies a lot
cheaper than you so protecting your inefficient industries from loosing
market share within Europe. The type of food that feeds the growth of a
depression.

p.s....By the way fellow EU country members, do not tell your citizens about
the big clause under all this membership malarkey...you have to agree to the
forming of The United States of Europe where in the end Brussels will
control and rule all of Europe, your countries will be reduced to State
status only. Scotland beware, you've heard of, "jumping out of the frying
pan only to land into the fire".

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

England should stand alone and deal with its own mess. Scotland shouldn't have to go along with their nonsense.

We no not have any mess thank you very much, nor any nonsense, only in your biased opinion. Refer to my previous post please.

By definition most opinions are biased, some of us are just more aware of our biases than others.

If you think of the UK like Panem in the Hunger Games, then the south is like the Capitol, and Ireland, Scotland, Wales and the North of England are like the districts. That should give you a sense of how people generally feel about the politicians in London and the decisions they make for the rest of the country.

Sounds like the way we view Brussels...If it's not working then within the UK
how in the devils name is it then going to work OK within the EU. ....
...'scratch head and get even more splinters'....well it's not is it?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Tami, an interesting synopsis on Chris, water off a ducks back to him because
he's British and tough with it.

If your description on the British is true, then I have failed miserably
to meet those standards..........I must try harder.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

The first major test of Cameron's government?

Never was too happy with the rail unions holding the public to ransom, but there were many cases where a strike was necessary due to bad management - Are we seeing the same thing again?

Bank Holiday Monday Rail Strike

"Steve Hedley, assistant general secretary of the RMT, told the BBC the strike was about "compulsory redundancies, safety and pay - in that order".

He said: "Compulsory redundancies will affect safety, because what they are trying to do is get skilled people out of the industry. At the same time they are moving towards a model of employment that's relying on people on zero hours contracts and temporary workers.""

The transport secretary had this to say...

"Rail passengers will not thank the unions for inflicting this unnecessary disruption."

If what the union say is correct, then a dangerous precedent could be set. Personally, if true, I hope the union wins!

Could this be one of the reasons for last weeks unexpected results?

Chukka Umunna withdraws bid

"The MP, 36, said in a statement that he was not comfortable with the level of pressure and scrutiny that came with being a leadership candidate.

Mr Umunna also cited concerns about the impact of the bid on his family."

So no concern had Labour won & he became a cabinet minister?

Smug going in?



Worried coming out?



Think Sturgeon will have a few shocks in store for him.

Could this be one of the reasons for last weeks unexpected results?

Chukka Umunna withdraws bid

"The MP, 36, said in a statement that he was not comfortable with the level of pressure and scrutiny that came with being a leadership candidate.

Mr Umunna also cited concerns about the impact of the bid on his family."

So no concern had Labour won & he became a cabinet minister?

Well Sirius, the system did bring this all upon themselves. Had to copy the
Americans and over the years bring their families into the media ring.
They thought it would enhance their voting appeal to the electorate, all it
achieved was to remove any private life they had. Oh look, there's
president Clinton and his wife Hillary going to church and the president is
carrying a bible...all those wonderful values he must hold...all done to
appeal to the Christian fraternity. Think of those extra votes to be cadged
by appearing to be, "A God fearing Christian President"....
...Yet I bet he conned extra votes from it.

What's that newspaper headline, "President Clinton knocking off one of his aids"..
..mighty fine Christian he turned out to be.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.