May I chime in :

Since I've been using alot of PSUs, this is my experience...

Very reliable, good experience
----------------------------------------
Seasonic
Corsair
CoolerMaster
Thermaltake
XFX
Enermax

(there are more quality brands of course, above were just the ones I mainly employed)

Things I've learned with PSUs, that just worked well for me over the many years :

- never ever judge a PSU just by its advertised Wattage or go for Max Wattage for the buck. Go for quality instead and pay the price.
Many cheap PSUs don't even reach their advertised Wattage, let alone when being sucked by GPUs from the 12V rails. Some just fail, others actually blow or go up in flames (literally).
In contrast, the quality PSUs deliver what they promise and temporarily can even go further than that without taking damage.
Plus, they can handle load changes by the system much better and additionally filter out electrical line fluctuations far better... even brigde mini power surges without a hitch (all these things can make cheap PSUs go ape immediately, including delivering damaging over-/undervoltages to the system they're supplying).

- don't operate oversized PSUs 24/7 at very low load (i.e. 1000W rated with only 25% load)

Especially high-rated PSUs are fully optimized for certain load distributions, they don't seem to like it being taken to very low parts of the envelope for too long.
So when you look for a PSU to operate a certain system, make sure you know very well what Wattage it actually draws from the line and then aim for the desired PSU size.

- aim for about 60-75% sustained load for 24/7 operations and max. longlivety

While optimium efficiency (acc. 80+ certifications) is usually achieved in the ~80%-85% load region, permanently operating it at these very high loads is still putting alot of stress on the PSU and really puts its quality to a test.
Again, this requires actually knowing what Wattage you're expecting.

- PSUs (even quality ones) are aging

While a brand new quality PSU can deliver its full rated power, you have to know that over time of 24/7 operations, this number is shrinking slowly.
Normally not a hughe factor, but when using or considering to implement old PSUs into a System, it must be taken into account.

- Have a close look at the PSUs cooling behaviour

Every once in a while, even a quality manufacturer puts out "Silent PSUs" that can cross "the line between silent and stupid".
Means, these PSUs compromise their own cooling in order to remain silent - at nearly all costs (BeQuiet had a few of those in the past).
When you notice that even under heavy load the PSU is barely blowing air and the air it does blow is hot (not just warm), that needs to be taken into account for the overall system cooling.

- System cooling in general

Keep in mind that in difference to the old times, when the PSU was basically entirely responsible for moving the hot air out of the PC case, they cannot handle this job alone anymore - especially when GPUs are involved.
PC Cases that have sufficient fans shoveling cold air in and the warm air out are basically the Alpha and Omega of GPU crunching. The PSU will also thank you that, as this will drastically reduce its operating temperatures.

- periodically clean the PSU (pressure air)

PSUs can collect tons of dust without it being visible, as opposed to other hardware (i.e. Video cards etc) where it's usually very easy to recognize.
Most people would be surprised how much dust you get when you give it a thorough pressure air cleaning...
Although normally well-isolated, PSUs still by far operate the highest capacity and electrical components in a PC - and eventually that does not mix well with dust accumulation.

- Manufacturer recommendations for their Video cards are usually way overpowered

Since they have to guarantee that even cheap PSUs get along with their hardware, do not blindly trust their numbers and massively oversize your PSU.
Research the available tables of CPU and GPUs actual power consumption (TDP is at least a very good hint) and make a realistic estimation instead.

---

Hey Glenn,

Sorry was asleep. My 8350 is currently sitting in a case with a 1300 W PSU with 3 780s attached. Without anything crunching, I'm seeing +12.17 (if I'm reading this right) I use either EVGA or Rosewill PSUs. This one just happens to be EVGA. Back when I started with this MB and Chip, it was a Rosewill PSU of 650 and had 2 GTX 650 Tis. It didn't seem to have a problem back then. Since then, I've continued to upgrade the PSU and moved to modular ones just so I didn't have so many cables cluttering up the inside of my cases. Good luck with your computer

Zalster

I'm seeing +12.17

Thank's for that Zalster it sounds like your not getting the power drop i am as mine starts of at 12.34 and drops to 11.95 as soon as i turn the gpu on and now i'm only running 1 card now .

I just hope gigabyte can give me a answer to a email i sent them asking what would be the power requirements and what they reccomend but i'll post the reply when they get back to me and weather the board will work 2 gpu from Nvidia seeing as it is not sli compliant but is crossfire and weather this could cause a problem

---

Thanks FalconFly for the info

Makes it difficult to decide what to do as i all ready knew that you can overpower your system if you get a power supply to big
Working out how much this dam AMD uses at full load doesn't seem to marry up as a 850 should be enough but that does not seem the case.

Starting to wish i just bought Intel oh well i by AMD for the first time and i'm not happy

---

I just hope gigabyte can give me a answer to a email i sent them asking what would be the power requirements and what they recommend but i'll post the reply when they get back to me and weather the board will work 2 gpu from Nvidia seeing as it is not sli compliant but is crossfire and weather this could cause a problem

What model is your motherboard? Whether they are Nvidia vs AMD shouldn't be a big deal, I would think. As Bil posted, I think it's more likely that PSU that's the problem. I like this website as far as how much PSU you need

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Good Luck

Zalster

May I chime in :

Since I've been using alot of PSUs, this is my experience...

Very reliable, good experience
----------------------------------------
Seasonic
Corsair
CoolerMaster
Thermaltake
XFX
Enermax

(there are more quality brands of course, above were just the ones I mainly employed)

Things I've learned with PSUs, that just worked well for me over the many years :

- never ever judge a PSU just by its advertised Wattage or go for Max Wattage for the buck. Go for quality instead and pay the price.
Many cheap PSUs don't even reach their advertised Wattage, let alone when being sucked by GPUs from the 12V rails. Some just fail, others actually blow or go up in flames (literally).
In contrast, the quality PSUs deliver what they promise and temporarily can even go further than that without taking damage.
Plus, they can handle load changes by the system much better and additionally filter out electrical line fluctuations far better... even brigde mini power surges without a hitch (all these things can make cheap PSUs go ape immediately, including delivering damaging over-/undervoltages to the system they're supplying).

- don't operate oversized PSUs 24/7 at very low load (i.e. 1000W rated with only 25% load)

Especially high-rated PSUs are fully optimized for certain load distributions, they don't seem to like it being taken to very low parts of the envelope for too long.
So when you look for a PSU to operate a certain system, make sure you know very well what Wattage it actually draws from the line and then aim for the desired PSU size.

- aim for about 60-75% sustained load for 24/7 operations and max. longlivety

While optimium efficiency (acc. 80+ certifications) is usually achieved in the ~80%-85% load region, permanently operating it at these very high loads is still putting alot of stress on the PSU and really puts its quality to a test.
Again, this requires actually knowing what Wattage you're expecting.

- PSUs (even quality ones) are aging

While a brand new quality PSU can deliver its full rated power, you have to know that over time of 24/7 operations, this number is shrinking slowly.
Normally not a hughe factor, but when using or considering to implement old PSUs into a System, it must be taken into account.

- Have a close look at the PSUs cooling behaviour

Every once in a while, even a quality manufacturer puts out "Silent PSUs" that can cross "the line between silent and stupid".
Means, these PSUs compromise their own cooling in order to remain silent - at nearly all costs (BeQuiet had a few of those in the past).
When you notice that even under heavy load the PSU is barely blowing air and the air it does blow is hot (not just warm), that needs to be taken into account for the overall system cooling.

- System cooling in general

Keep in mind that in difference to the old times, when the PSU was basically entirely responsible for moving the hot air out of the PC case, they cannot handle this job alone anymore - especially when GPUs are involved.
PC Cases that have sufficient fans shoveling cold air in and the warm air out are basically the Alpha and Omega of GPU crunching. The PSU will also thank you that, as this will drastically reduce its operating temperatures.

- periodically clean the PSU (pressure air)

PSUs can collect tons of dust without it being visible, as opposed to other hardware (i.e. Video cards etc) where it's usually very easy to recognize.
Most people would be surprised how much dust you get when you give it a thorough pressure air cleaning...
Although normally well-isolated, PSUs still by far operate the highest capacity and electrical components in a PC - and eventually that does not mix well with dust accumulation.

- Manufacturer recommendations for their Video cards are usually way overpowered

Since they have to guarantee that even cheap PSUs get along with their hardware, do not blindly trust their numbers and massively oversize your PSU.
Research the available tables of CPU and GPUs actual power consumption (TDP is at least a very good hint) and make a realistic estimation instead.

Requirements for 80 Plus certification use 20%, 50%, & 100% for their required values. With the highest efficiency requirements at 50%. Titanium certification adds a 10% requirements.



Here is a good source of info for who is making PSUs these days. They update the info yearly too.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-brands,3762.html

I have been switching from Enermax multi-railed PSUs to Rosewill Fortress single railed units recently.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

Zalster i have a 970A-D3p gigabyte board 1 of the reasons i'm thinking it des not like Nvidia is i noticed when i put the second card in it shows up a PCIE-2x both cards when i looked at the manual it should be PCIE-4x and PCIE-16x not 2x also there has been posts on the net saying some have had dogy PCIE ports with this mobo so i'm a bit lost as to what is going on

---

Thanks HAL9000 i will check it out i was looking around TOM's Hardware earlyer so your link is handy as i could only get reviews up of the FX chip which did not help much so thanks

---

Thanks FalconFly for the info

Makes it difficult to decide what to do as i all ready knew that you can overpower your system if you get a power supply to big
Working out how much this dam AMD uses at full load doesn't seem to marry up as a 850 should be enough but that does not seem the case.

Starting to wish i just bought Intel oh well i by AMD for the first time and i'm not happy

The calculator Zalster pointed out is actually pretty good. Maybe a tad on the aggressive side (I'd go for 50W more than it recommends just as a safety buffer and a little overhead room for minor hardware changes).

AMD and intel are completely the same when it comes to having the PSU dimensioned appropriately.

If the Host in your list is the existing config (FX-8350 + GTX 650), it should draw roughly ~240W maximum from the plug (assuming a typical setup, Displays not included).
A good quality 350W PSU would have no issue running it.

The FX-8350 is a 125W TDP CPU (~115W peak actual load).
The vanilla GeForce GTX 650 has a 64W TDP GPU, resulting in approx. 80W peak load (its PCB included and peak load likley won't be achieved outside running FurMark stress test).
Typical AMD AM3+ Motherboards clock in at about 25-35W usage.
For Fans and HDDs and RAM, add some 20W and you should be set (2x HDD, 2 Fans, 2 RAM modules).

----------------------
Now for those ~240W, we'd assume a 100.0% efficiency, which doesn't exist. For any 80+ PSU, add 20% onto that figure and you'd have round about what it would need to draw from the plug. We'd be talking about 290W there. That is absolute peak, worst-case short-term power draw. You'd have to intentionally stress-test everything to get there with dedicated Utilities - but in theory you could.
----------------------

Be aware though that PSUs ranging 350W and lower usually aren't too strong on the 12V rails (they're often more like office PSUs), hence people with strong CPUs and an additional PCIe GPU usually avoid going that low - even if the Wattage would make them seem perfectly fit.
The 400W class PSUs are typically the minimum (I'm aware of) that have the usual strenghts associated with the need of putting some serious loading on the 12V rail.
Despite total draw not being in the optimal efficiency region for most PSUs, you'll likely do make good use of its 12V capabilities already. On the upside with i.e. a 400W or 430W PSU, you gain some headroom for future upgrades or changes to the configuration, plus you have a buffer from component ageing of the PSU itself.

---

FalconFly i agree the PSU's i have been using should be enough but there simply not and i can't understand why this is happening even if they only produce 60% of there power it should be enough but it's not .

I have always used Intel and i tell you what if the next PSU fails within a month i'm going to trash this piece of crap and go back to intel and never never use AMD again

The fact that the same PSU used in a Intel q8400 shows the 12 volt at 12.55 at idle and the AMD says 12.3 tells me there is no PSU that will work with this chip at full load and nobody has explained why the voltage is different i suspect it's using a higher voltage to start off with and there is the main problem unless you can explain the difference i can see me trashing this chip and board .

I have ask AMD the same question in a email i just sent to them if they say what your saying i'm gona get real peed off with them

---

FalconFly i agree the PSU's i have been using should be enough but there simply not and i can't understand why this is happening even if they only produce 60% of there power it should be enough but it's not .

I have always used Intel and i tell you what if the next PSU fails within a month i'm going to trash this piece of crap and go back to intel and never never use AMD again

The fact that the same PSU used in a Intel q8400 shows the 12 volt at 12.55 at idle and the AMD says 12.3 tells me there is no PSU that will work with this chip at full load and nobody has explained why the voltage is different i suspect it's using a higher voltage to start off with and there is the main problem unless you can explain the difference i can see me trashing this chip and board .

I have ask AMD the same question in a email i just sent to them if they say what your saying i'm gona get real peed off with them

Was the old PSU a single rail?
Wattage is really a secondary consideration, as I have seen 1250 watt PSU, that had multiple 12 Volt rails. The problem with that, is that a CPU or GPU combination can use up all the current for a given rail, while being no where near the wattage limit for the supply.

I use a Corsair AX1200 supply with a single 100.4 amp rail, and ran a heavy load of 975 watts on it for years. It may be getting tired now, but the key was single rail. they have a new Corsair AX1500i that has a single 125 Amp rail.

Wattage is important, but make sure you have all the needed current on your rail, and it won't matter if the CPU is Intel or AMD. If GPU's are loading down the PSU, the CPU will sense it quickly, and possibly crash. A single rail system makes that very unlikely.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Glenn,

I still go back to what Bil posted on your thread. In the article, the tester had the same PSU as you .. coolerpower 850W. When he had it up and running, it did ok with 1 GPU. When he added the second GPU it had a melt down. There is even a comment from CoolMaster saying they are a knockoff trying to use their name and that the PSU from that company don't stand up to 50% of their posted voltage. Not to say there couldn't be a probable with the Gigabyte board, but I'd really look at that PSU first. My 2 cents


Zalster

Glenn,

I still go back to what Bil posted on your thread. In the article, the tester had the same PSU as you .. coolerpower 850W. When he had it up and running, it did ok with 1 GPU. When he added the second GPU it had a melt down. There is even a comment from CoolMaster saying they are a knockoff trying to use their name and that the PSU from that company don't stand up to 50% of their posted voltage. Not to say there couldn't be a probable with the Gigabyte board, but I'd really look at that PSU first. My 2 cents


Zalster

An engineer always fix one issue at a time.
He needs a good PSU first no doubt about that.

I totally agree with Steve.

You need a good single rail PSU with at least bronce certification.
Like others suggested Antec or Cosair is the way to go.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Thank SciManStev i didn't think the 12 volt rail came in at such a high amperage the 1 i'm using now has 36 amp and i think 1 rail but not enough and it is rated at 850 and only 1 cable with the 6 and 8 pin plug for the GPU

I just looked at the 1 that died it has 2 rails
The label on the side says 12v+1,12v+2 ,12v+3 ,12v+4 all 4 say 34 amp each and has 2 cables with the 6 and 8 pin plugs on each cable so i'm at a loss why it failed should have been more than enough .

The 1 have in it now just shuts down not like the 1 that died it just won't boot up and that was the cooler master knock off i only bought it as my last 1 from that company lasted 6yrs and was 700 it worked fine till i put the 2nd GPU in then died less than 24 hrs after i put the GPU in , it was being used on a Q8400 with no probs and the GTX 650 card .

But seeing as i now know you can get the 12 volt rail with 100amp i'll be looking for something like that and make cents now what Wiggo said

---

I've just read this thread, again.
A couple of observations:
Near the top of the thread Glen said he's had similar issues with another (similar) motherboard;
This isn't the first PSU that has "failed" in this manner...
So, are we sure that the PSUs have actually failed, or is it a motherboard related problem?
So a bit of simple diagnostics...
Does the PSU drive the computer without a GPU plugged in?
Does the PSU actually give 12V on the 12V line with no load?
Is there an issue with the PSU start line on the mother board?

The first is very simple to test - remove the GPU and run the computer up (with a monitor plugged in) - you should at least see the motherboard start up screen, and hopefully the PC should boot up and run.
The next two need a bit of fiddling and a bit of kit in the shape of a multimeter and a paper clip.
Let's do the third first (if you get what I mean), push the paper clip into the ATX supply socket to connect pins 14 & 15. Now, does the computer boot? And is there 12V on the external supply cables to the GPU when measured between any of the black and yellow cables in each of the bundles. And finally in htis session, does the 12V on the external connectors remain at 12V when you try to load it with a GPU?

I've had a couple of dead PSUs over the years, and a few motherboards that had faults on the PSU start line. (One ran for a couple of years with the paper clip replaced by a bit of wire...)

Good hunting!

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

FalconFly i agree the PSU's i have been using should be enough but there simply not and i can't understand why this is happening even if they only produce 60% of there power it should be enough but it's not .

I have always used Intel and i tell you what if the next PSU fails within a month i'm going to trash this piece of crap and go back to intel and never never use AMD again

The fact that the same PSU used in a Intel q8400 shows the 12 volt at 12.55 at idle and the AMD says 12.3 tells me there is no PSU that will work with this chip at full load and nobody has explained why the voltage is different i suspect it's using a higher voltage to start off with and there is the main problem unless you can explain the difference i can see me trashing this chip and board .

I have ask AMD the same question in a email i just sent to them if they say what your saying i'm gona get real peed off with them

Was the old PSU a single rail?
Wattage is really a secondary consideration, as I have seen 1250 watt PSU, that had multiple 12 Volt rails. The problem with that, is that a CPU or GPU combination can use up all the current for a given rail, while being no where near the wattage limit for the supply.

I use a Corsair AX1200 supply with a single 100.4 amp rail, and ran a heavy load of 975 watts on it for years. It may be getting tired now, but the key was single rail. they have a new Corsair AX1500i that has a single 125 Amp rail.

Wattage is important, but make sure you have all the needed current on your rail, and it won't matter if the CPU is Intel or AMD. If GPU's are loading down the PSU, the CPU will sense it quickly, and possibly crash. A single rail system makes that very unlikely.

Steve

My current PSU that was gifted to me last year is a PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 950 watt. Rated 83.4A on a single rail.

Currently running a GTX-670 and GTX-760.

---

Thanks FalconFly for the info

Makes it difficult to decide what to do as i all ready knew that you can overpower your system if you get a power supply to big
Working out how much this dam AMD uses at full load doesn't seem to marry up as a 850 should be enough but that does not seem the case.

Starting to wish i just bought Intel oh well i by AMD for the first time and i'm not happy

Do you understand that they lie, lie, ... and lie ?

Label is just FAKE
The inside is NOT in fact '850' and not '80+'

The way 'Cooler Power' try to imitate the Cooler Master logo speaks for itself how much you can trust such a 'brand'
http://forums.hardwaresecrets.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=422&d=1374654539

Do not trust the advertised 'specs' unless the manufacturer is reputable


Will you trust Mercedes-like logo if put on some India or China made car?
http://www.drivespark.com/four-wheelers/2014/indian-cars-fail-global-ncap-crash-test-006251.html

20 Chinese Fake Brands and Copycats
http://www.oddee.com/item_86044.aspx


P.S.
I didn't know anything about CoolerPower, I just put the name in Google and the first result was/is ...:
https://www.google.com/#q=CoolerPower

For (unknown for me) Honli I used the first result of this search:
https://www.google.com/#q=honli+psu+850w+bad
 

---

 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 

Thank's arkayn
Are you using the 970 chipset with that 1 ,it has been suggested that it' could also be the 4+1 power on the board and maybe i should be using the 990 chipset as it has 8+2 ?

---

Well i got a response from Gigabyte .

First they say sorry then say a 500 watt power put a link to a power page i can't open and then tell me to check my mains power supply

What a freaking joke and now they know i'm not so freaking stupid with my reply lets see if they just blow me off this time bastas .

---

Well i got a response from Gigabyte .

First they say sorry then say a 500 watt power put a link to a power page i can't open and then tell me to check my mains power supply

What a freaking joke and now they know i'm not so freaking stupid with my reply lets see if they just blow me off this time bastas .

Verifying your mains power supply is NOT a blow off response. That is perfectly legit. There have been a few folks over the years here that found out they had inadequate or defective wiring supplying power to their computers, and it caused them grief.
A Killawatt meter is a very handy investment for around $25.00 or less, and will display the actual power being drawn from the mains as well as verifying the voltage while under load.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster