There is a hypothesis that the reason SETI has not been sucessful is that when a civilization reaches a certain point it self distructs. I ask if that is what is happening in the mideast?

There is another hypothesis that ET has seen what goes on here on earth and has wisely decided to avoid contact at all costs. The conflict in the middle east is just one example among several.

+1

With the vastness of the universe and the vastness of time what is happening hear and now doesn't amount to squat. It never ceases to amaze me how self important the unimportant think they are.

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Israel on your border. Jihadist's on your border.

You have chosen The Mass Murdering/Beheading, Homophobic, Anti-Women, Anti-Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/etc., Jihadists.

Hope YOUR women understand.

What, Hamas is mass murdering? They killed less than 70 people so far (almost all of them soldiers), while Israel is getting close to 2000 people killed. Unless in your universe 70 is more than 2000, the only mass murderers in this conflict are the Israelis.

Hamas wants to be mass murderers, but they really don't have the skill to pull it off.

There is a hypothesis that the reason SETI has not been sucessful is that when a civilization reaches a certain point it self distructs. I ask if that is what is happening in the mideast?

There is another hypothesis that ET has seen what goes on here on earth and has wisely decided to avoid contact at all costs. The conflict in the middle east is just one example among several.

+1

With the vastness of the universe and the vastness of time what is happening hear and now doesn't amount to squat. It never ceases to amaze me how self important the unimportant think they are.

I agree with you 100% about us (the earth) being unimportant. maybe ET exists and maybe they don't. My comment was made to point out how unready we are to make contact with ET.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

The Isreals should not build houses on palestinian ground.

And Arabs should not build houses on Israeli land ...

Did anyone else's eyeballs shoot out their heads in totally different directions? Mine did... not sure I've put them back in their right sockets *squint blink* but never mind...

Gary :) may I ask you something... how do you do it? :)))

The file name of the map you posted is: Map of the land God promised to Abraham.
The website it originated from is run by a self-publishing minister who is currently postulating that the overhaul of the credit card industry is a portent of the mark of the beast - much like he thought the barcode was :)

Is fine... :)

...but coming as it did after your previous post in this thread where you said...

Frankly until the world consigns all the Abrahamic religions, which are founded upon evil hatred of others, to the dust bin of history, we will continue to have slaughter on this planet. I do think more slaughter has been done in the name of the Abrahamic religions than all others causes combined. That alone should be enough evidence to prove they are maximally evil.

Could you justify the map borders for me please? (edit: if you need some Abrahamic bible verses I know a few...)

This thread has generated enough cow manure to fertilize the whole region.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

This thread has generated enough cow manure to fertilize the whole region.

Dung DUNG DUNG :) That is SO true Bob!! :)

If one side can live on the other sides ground.
Why not try the opposite.
Let Palestinians live and work in Israel.

You are aware that about 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab. That they serve in the IDF as all citizens do. Do you think if Hamas put down their weapons they could join that 20% who live in peace? I know, I know, you will come up with some crap about why it is more profitable to have war.

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New Truce agreed

How long will this one last?

Interesting insight into the minds of the Middle East

"Before they began to falter, the region's autocrats, whether in Tunisia, Syria or Yemen, were fond of reminding Westerners that despite their brutality -- or perhaps because of it -- they were the ones keeping the peace and ensuring stability."

As for Egypt...

"As Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in a televised address just 10 days before he was ousted, "The events of the last few days require us all as a people and as a leadership to choose between chaos and stability.""

Edit: An even better report

"The helplessness of the world's most important foreign minister shows just how little influence the US still has in the Middle East. And with each failure, Washington's influence in the rest of the world erodes as well. A civil war is raging in eastern Ukraine, an agreement with Iran over its nuclear program is still a long way off, Islamist terrorists now control large swaths of Iraq -- and the US doesn't appear to be in a position to do anything about it."

Interesting comment!

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Could you justify the map borders for me please?

Since God is a figment of imagination, there was never a promised land so whatever borders there are, are also figments of imagination. As far as I know, no one seems to have an original chiseled stone tablet or clay tablet map from the time period. So any line drawn in the sand is as valid as any other. That applies to the line in the sand gang's line or the UN line too.

Glad you got you eyeballs back in, but now you see the issue even if cross-eyed.

The world has some islands with similar issues too.

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Rockets from inside Gaza...


Israeli retaliation...



Ain't religion grand!

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-- and the US doesn't appear to be in a position to do anything about it."

That's funny; the world wanted a kinder gentler US. So US elected a "community activist". Peace, love, dove. Perhaps Rev. Al can form marches.

Gas is $3.03 a gallon and falling in New Jersey, my natural gas bill was $1.46 for usage in July, the stores are overflowing with fruits and vegetables. I don't see a problem.

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Well, we've heard countless times on this forum that the world's policeman is going home...

...better tell your leaders that...

"One of them was about whether a world could exist in which another power, like China, took over America's role. "Never," the secretary of state answered, "and no one contemplates the United States doing anything but leading"."

Makes one wonder about this then...

"It's possible that the great era of American dominance has come to an end, and that a new geopolitical chapter will begin -- a possibility that even the conservatives fear."

...and this...

"Kerry told SPIEGEL before he set off for his most recent mission to the Middle East that making an effort at mediation is "in our DNA as a country, and it's in our DNA as a friend to Israel.""

Hmmn, is that the hidden code that Johnny Guinness has found?

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Could you justify the map borders for me please?

Since God is a figment of imagination, there was never a promised land so whatever borders there are, are also figments of imagination. As far as I know, no one seems to have an original chiseled stone tablet or clay tablet map from the time period. So any line drawn in the sand is as valid as any other. That applies to the line in the sand gang's line or the UN line too.

Glad you got you eyeballs back in, but now you see the issue even if cross-eyed.

I've seen the issue very clearly for very long time, but thank you :) So what was this about then?

And Arabs should not build houses on Israeli land ...

It was dished up on the same plate as your map... Can't work out if you're stirring again... or if you're perched on top of a swaying fence :) My fault I'm sure... I stood up under a table today - probably didn't do me much good...

The world has some islands with similar issues too.

Yes... :/

I've seen the issue very clearly for very long time, but thank you :) So what was this about then?

The Isreals should not build houses on palestinian ground.

And Arabs should not build houses on Israeli land ...

It was dished up on the same plate as your map... Can't work out if you're stirring again... or if you're perched on top of a swaying fence :) My fault I'm sure... I stood up under a table today - probably didn't do me much good...

As no one seems to know where this fictitious promised land is located ...

The world has some islands with similar issues too.

Yes... :/

Seems the first thing is to agree on a map.

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I Built A Home In Israel, Israel I Said.
Not In Palistine, For Palistinians I Dread.

Safe, Happy, Serene and Peaceful Is My Home
Here To Stay, Never Again I Roam
Gazing Out A Window Tho, Is The Golden Dome

Now, We Come Again, To This Place and Time
Where Missiles Streak and People Shriek
And What Is Never Yours Is Mine

Diplomacy, Shouts The World, Peace Only Words Away
Hearts Beating, Stopping As The Living Count The Days
Only A River Of Blood Will Have The Final Say

(c)DEAD 2014

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Here mite be the reason Israel is not going to listen weather this is true or not does not matter . Why people believe what ever they see especially if it's religous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDsXl7hAv3Q


THE END IS COMING

Some say it was the day Jesus came back and now lives here

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Here mite be the reason Israel is not going to listen weather this is true or not does not matter . Why people believe what ever they see especially if it's religous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDsXl7hAv3Q


THE END IS COMING

Some say it was the day Jesus came back and now lives here

Yeah, and I'm the Pope. One problem is that many of the people who really believe the end is near are also trying their best to cause it.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Yes Bob i agree and why i put the link up if people believe these vidoes then there is the answer as to why Israel may have changed tactics . And what i have been saying it's all about religion shame realy.

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Funny how humans interpret things the link to the vidoe showing a light coming down over the Dome on the Rock could have been a UFO but ppl will see it as the coming of Jesus and not what it was most likely just a UFO which has been seen all over the world ..

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Sirius. Hi :) a number of very interesting links you've been posting for us. Thank you :) I will come back to you on the one about John Kerry... poor man :( ... but in the meantime...

The real danger to Israel lies within

...however, can you blame them?

I don't know – maybe not. They are victims of their own nation as much or more so than of Hamas rockets. Their leadership has built for them a very uncomfortable bed on which to toss and turn all night :( much as the old South African regime did once upon a bad time ago... but they may have been pussycats compared.

You quoted a piece from the interview... about fear being deeply engrained in Israeli society. As Eva Illouz pointed out from where you left off...

Fears are cynically used by leaders like Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He makes Israelis believe that they all want to destroy us. Hamas wants to destroy us, the UN wants to destroy us, al-Qaida and Iran want to destroy us. ISIS wants to destroy us. The European anti-Semites want to destroy us. This is basically the filter through which a conflict with Hamas is interpreted by the ordinary Israeli. Another dimension of this prism is that "they" are not human beings.

... the “othering” that Hev very kindly posted a link to for us to mull over.

Israelis and Palestinians used to be mixed. They worked as construction workers and as cheap, underpaid labor. Then the wall was built. Then the road blocks came, which hampered the Palestinians' freedom of movement. The massive reduction in work permits followed. And in a few years Palestinians disappeared from Israeli society.

Now it has been said that the Arab population living inside Israel's borders stands at around 20 percent. This is calculated from a 2009 census and (according to Israel's central bureau of statistics) appears to have changed little year on year even before that date. Most may well be Palestinian, but trying to get a breakdown of the figures for “Arabs” from the ICBS site made a rather nosy looking window pop up requesting information about myself I did not want to share – so I legged it and, for the sake of keeping below Mossad's radar sweep :) I would be grateful if we could all assume that all of Israel's Arabs are Palestinian :) who... it has been mentioned a couple of times... all live together happily... which is nice...

Anyone fancy some dark-arts maths...? :)

Will try to keep it simple :) Let's look at Israel's penchant for lurching indiscriminately over it's old borders like some ever expanding pregnant hippo. Shall we call this “settlement” for want of a *cough* less inflammatory word? Shouldn't the ratio of Arab to Israeli have risen within Israel's spanking new boundaries? The land was not empty of inhabitants when the hippo waddled in... unless it had been bombed first and it's residents had had somewhere to flee to, unlike in Gaza of course...

Now it is very difficult to pin down a figure for the percentage of land lost to Palestinians in this way because, well the figure just keeps on rising. So it might be easier if we just look at one area for the moment where we do have figures – and Israeli ones at that... how about “Area C”? Comprises 60 percent of what was once the Palestinian West bank with a bog-standard settlement policy which included declaring the area a military zone (removing all land ownership rights of the inhabitants) sending in the bulldozers (escorted by the Israeli military) to flatten everything (because only the military have permission to build on military land and well – nothing for as far as the eyes can see was built by them - because - duh-uh it was Palestinian a few blinks of the eye ago) then permitting Palestinian construction in 1 percent of Israel's “new” border land (but withholding all the necessary building permits for it); Cutting off water and power supplies to it; Making the roads for the use of Israeli's only, shipping them in by the busload and ensuring elevated rights to everything for them; Creating military “target practise zones” (which overlap the boundaries of that meagre 1 percent mentioned above); and terrorising and/or harrassing all but the most stubborn Palestinian into fleeing to a refugee camp; Withhold permits to farm any of the land within the 1 percent (that was once farmed by Palestinians) for long enough to then declare the land “uncultivated” which means it cede's to the Israeli government for reallocation elsewhere... Then grant a very few work permits for menial low paid work that the new settlers won't want to dirty their hands doing (as a “reward”) maybe even a few building permits (but don't hold your breath)... and there's your average happy Palestinian living “alongside” their Israeli neighbour in harmony. Given how much they've gone through to get just that far and keep a fraction of what they once had – swapping that for a life as a perpetual refugee isn't going to seem very attractive... and that's how you use basic dark-arts maths to keep your Arab population at roughly 20 percent for as long as you can (whilst making sure they've also disappeared from Israeli society itself at the same time by restricting their movement onto Jewish Israeli land). But a cautionary note... consider Jaffa... once a major Palestinian coastal city, it was ethnically cleansed in 1948 and incorporated into present-day Israel. The few thousand Palestinians who remain in the city still face ongoing attempts to force them out of it....

But let's get back to Eva shall we? :)

The nature of Israeli leadership has also changed. The messianic right has progressively gained power in Israel. It used to be marginal and illegitimate; it is now increasingly mainstream. This radical right sits in Parliament, controls budgets and has changed the nature of discourse. Many Israelis do not understand the radical nature of the right in Israel. It successfully disguises itself as "patriotic" or "Jewish."

The voice of the extreme right is much louder and clearer than it was before. That's what's new: a racist right that is not ashamed of itself, that persecutes dissenters and even people who dare express compassion for the other side. The real danger to Israel and its sustainability comes from within. The fascist and racist elements are no less a security threat than the outside enemies.

I WILL be returning to this in a later post... because it ties-in disturbingly with a couple of other posts that have been made in this thread and the news is not good there :( but in the meantime...

I thought this looked like an interesting official Israeli document... Coloured Identity - Israel Palestine ID Cards... however... this was all there was to read: “The document has been deleted” which was a bit of a disappointment... but for those who think the life of an Arab living within any of Israel's borders paint Israel in a good light... please change any and all of your disapproving views on Apartheid South Africa now... the testaments of Palestinian Israeli's living within Israel's “borders” make truly sad reading :( There are many. I know some here would dismiss them as propaganda, but I WILL post this one as it is compiled from sources such as: B'tselem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. It's not new and I'm not sure how many of you will read it... but it gives a taste of what it's like to be an Arab “citizen” of Israel I wonder how many of those referred to in this old report have since been "moved on"...? :(

edit for Clyde: service in the IDF is compulsory for all Israeli "citizens" of a certain age (unless you are an Haredi Jew - I believe)