My aren't we all full of verbiage today.

Well coming from a so called minister (probably bought over the internet for $50 ) you saying I'm wrong ?

I'm just saying what no 1 else will even the oil and gas is a side issue they would still do the same thing if it wasn't there

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Well coming from a so called minister (probably bought over the internet for $50 ) you saying I'm wrong ?

It's free, g-d doesn't charge.

I wasn't referring to your verbiage BTW; I know how to use quotes and will quote the poster I'm referring. No quote and I'm referring to the entire supposed forum.

This is by far the most eccentric group I have ever stumbled across; it's almost worth my tax dollars just for the hoot factor.

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The problem with Gaza is that the people themselves can't resolve their differences & when the crap hits the fan, blame Israel.

"Hamas and Fatah had been in tortured, on-off negotiations since Hamas' 2006 election victory, with numerous failed or short-lived attempts along the way.

Hamas desperately needed a way out of its increasing isolation. It had lost Syrian and (much of) Iranian support in 2011 when it sided with the uprising against Syrian President Bashar Assad.

In 2013, its ally, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, was ousted from government. The Egyptian military leadership declared war on Hamas and closed the tunnels under the Egyptian-Gazan border that had enabled Gaza's survival (and Hamas' ability to arm itself) during Israel's blockade.

Hamas' popularity decreased, as did its ability to pay Gaza's state employees.

Thus, when Hamas framed its attacks on Israel as showing solidarity with the West Bank protests, this was in part to undermine Fatah and paint Hamas as the "true" champion of Palestinian unity."

What drove Hamas to take on Israel

I can understand why one religion wanting no other in its territory but to a non-Muslim, it makes no sense - Sunni killing Shi'ites, Shi'ites killing Sunni's with other smaller Muslim sects killing each other. When they can longer work with each other, attack the foreigner in their midst?

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This is by far the most eccentric group I have ever stumbled across; it's almost worth my tax dollars just for the hoot factor

Well instead of insulting everyone here why don't you give us the churches view as you must belong to some church organisation . catholic , 7 day Adventist , church of England , Jewish , Born again ???

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Does Israel have the right to exist?

Of course, its creation was no more dodgy than any other middle east country where the borders were decided by others. Therefore if the borders of Iraq, Iran, Pakistan etc are considered legitimate, then so are Israel's.

It does not however, have the right to invade and destroy an entire country because one section of that country's population fires a rockets, which are barely as sophisticated as a 4th of July bottle rocket, at them and which are easily handled by their existing defences

If Hamas was serious about causing terror in Israel they'd be using car bombs not these bottle rockets. Why Hamas keeps firing these things over the border, despite their ineffectiveness is something a Shrink could use as a thesis for their PhD.

The whole situation is proof that the looney right is the looney right, no matter what side of a border they live on. If Hamas and the Israeli govt. swapped territories the situation would continue unchanged and no-one would notice the difference.

Haters got to hate ....

T.A.

And here is the text of the article that picture is from...
Apologies for the long post.

The death of Yasser Arafat, the election of the Hamas government and the ruin of the Palestinian Authority have enabled Israel to establish de facto control over Gaza’s offshore gas reserves.

British Gas (BG Group) has been dealing with the Tel Aviv government. In turn, the Hamas government has been bypassed in regards to exploration and development rights over the gas fields.

T.A.

British? You mean the line in the sand gang? They are still involved? Now we understand!

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I can understand why one religion wanting no other in its territory but to a non-Muslim, it makes no sense - Sunni killing Shi'ites, Shi'ites killing Sunni's with other smaller Muslim sects killing each other. When they can longer work with each other, attack the foreigner in their midst?

Christian's killing other Christian's (deferent sects) is part of European History.

The West may have advanced beyond that. But it is understandable.

Good point. However the Muslim civilisation is much older than ours so one would think that they would have learned by now.

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Just to prove that some people should not be allowed outside without a carer..



T.A.

Good point. However the Muslim civilisation is much older than ours so one would think that they would have learned by now.

Actually, Islam is younger than Christianity by around 400 years. This means it is at the same state of development that Christianity was in the 1600's, when Catholics and Protestants were busy burning each other at the stake.

It also means it will be around 2400 before the Sunnis, Shiites, Wahabis, etc get their <expletive deleted> sh*t together. :(

T.A.

The Jews hated the Nazi's and 80 odd years later the son of Ariel Sharon comes out with that statement Terror A , sort of says it all really

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The problem here is one that not only involves Israel & Palestine but the world. I stated it on one of my Europe threads but will paraphrase it here...

Once perception hits a certain point, one will act accordingly.

"As in the days of Israel of old, many men and women today are thinking and doing what is right in their own eyes and choosing wrongly. Biblical standards are first ridiculed and then largely abandoned.

The loss of religious belief has meant the West has replaced reason and truth with ideology and prejudice, which it embraces in the manner of a secular inquisition. The result has been a kind of mass derangement, as truth and lies, right and wrong, victim and aggressor are all turned upside down."

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The problem here is one that not only involves Israel & Palestine but the world. I stated it on one of my Europe threads but will paraphrase it here...

Once perception hits a certain point, one will act accordingly.

"As in the days of Israel of old, many men and women today are thinking and doing what is right in their own eyes and choosing wrongly. Biblical standards are first ridiculed and then largely abandoned.

The loss of religious belief has meant the West has replaced reason and truth with ideology and prejudice, which it embraces in the manner of a secular inquisition. The result has been a kind of mass derangement, as truth and lies, right and wrong, victim and aggressor are all turned upside down."

+1

If Isreal pulls back from new building settlements ground and gives back territory to Palestine. There won't be a reason for missiles going to the Israel side.

Absurd. Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel as a State. This is Not about any 'occupation'.

I find it hard to see it reality that Hamas will be able to defeat/destroy Israel.
More likely is the result of that that Israel will defeat "their" enemies with the world sit and watch.

Does Israel have the right to protect its citizens and country from attack?

If the answer for other Country's is yes. The answer for Israel is yes.

The have been doing this supposed self defense for decades now, without getting any kind of improvement in the situation. Self defense is permitted, but this isn't self defense. This is maintaining the status quo. Israel has absolutely no interest in resolving the situation. They have no interest in actually defeating Hamas. They have no interest in peace with the Palestinians. Israel has lost the right to claim that what they are doing is just 'self defense'.

Israel has shown more restraint, than persons attacking Israel in this Board, would demand from their Government, if under constant, and indiscriminant, weapon barrage, directed where their children live.

No it has not shown that much self restraint. Unless you count the fact that they haven't dropped a nuke on the place (like Avigdor Lieberman suggested). I'm sorry, but not having stooped to the lowest, most barbaric methods of total warfare is not restraint.

This, anti Israeli rant is TOTALLY absurd.

Solution, agreed by Israel, over the years: TWO States. Israel and Palestine. Perhaps never to be friends. Perhaps something like a Divorced Couple.

Why will the Palestinians/Hamas (they are now allied) not accept this concept, and all they do is just call for the destruction of Israel?

FIRST step to the long process toward peace: Accept the existence of Israel, by their enemy's. The ball IS NOT in Israel's Court.

Question: Does Israel have a right to exist? Those responding NO. Please explain.

And they take the right to build on other territory with the world sit and watch.

To the victor belongs the spoils.

One country attacks another, then one must be prepared for the consequences.

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FACT, if Gaza accept Egypt's cease fire proposal this would not have happened.

It was unlikely that they would accept as there was nothing in the proposal to lift the crippling blockade that is causing the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

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Reality Internet Personality

If I understand your 'thinking'.

Obviously you don't :(
It appears you make the mistake of thinking all Palestinians support Hamas.

If a bunch of cheering murdering psychotic's continually attack you: You can not use better weapons, to defend yourself, against them?

If your next door neighbour attacks me. Do I have the right to level the entire neighbourhood, including your house, in retaliation and claim "self defence" ?

If I destroyed your house and possibly killed members of your family, who would you hate the most, your neighbour or me ?

If I destroyed your house and possibly killed members of your family, who would you be most likely to retaliate against, your neighbour or me ?

This is a problem with certain military minds. They just can't understand that if they use bulk retaliation techniques that kill innocents and unnecessarily destroy homes and infrastructure, it turns neutrals and, even those who were previously supporters against them. So by killing one innocent you create multiple opponents.

There are many to whom "collateral damage" is not that collateral, just ask any Vietnamese, Afghani, Palestinian or other who just wanted/wants both sides to f*ck off and let them live in peace.

T.A.

The land was given to Abraham by Yahweh and He commanded utter destruction of every man, woman, child and beast.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
Only in the cities of these peoples that Yahweh your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as Yahweh your God has commanded you,

Thus said Yahweh their g-d.

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If Isreal pulls back from new building settlements ground and gives back territory to Palestine. There won't be a reason for missiles going to the Israel side.

Absurd. Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel as a State. This is Not about any 'occupation'.

I find it hard to see it reality that Hamas will be able to defeat/destroy Israel.
More likely is the result of that that Israel will defeat "their" enemies with the world sit and watch.

Oh! I didn't understand Israel doesn't have enemies. Silly, silly silly.

Of course Israel has THE RIGHT to defeat those who wish to destroy it.

There are those on both sides who want to annihilate the other. So if, as you say, Israel has the "right" to do so, then by that reasoning...?

For most people, they just want to get on with their lives and see their children grow up. And they are the ones who are suffering :(

Does Israel have the right to protect its citizens and country from attack?

If the answer for other Country's is yes. The answer for Israel is yes.

Then I presume the answer for the Palestinian Territories is also yes...

This is the problem, this has been going on so long that who attacked who in the first place has been long forgotten. It is now just a war of vendetta with control of the oil and gas fields as a side bet to make it interesting.

T.A.