Or at least that is what they say to your face.

ES that is rather snarky, you generally are better than that.

It was actually a toned down version of what I wanted to say.

Considering how pervasive racism is and the complete lack of understanding displayed by several posters in this thread I have my doubts as to whether this topic could be discussed safely by their black relatives in a way where they wouldn't feel that they were banging their heads against a brick wall.

I have no idea if that is the case, but it is a distinct possibility.

All I hear is "she this" and "she that" by people that really have no idea about structural racism. I am so disgusted right now that I really don't think I have anything constructive to add to this thread.

Too many of the posters here have a vested interest in the status quo.

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Reality Internet Personality

Too many of the posters here have a vested interest in the status quo.

The neutrality of this article is disputed. (March 2014)

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A problem I see with this situation is that people are convoluting what went wrong in Furguson and what are the deep rooted causes of it. They are differnt topics.
OBTW Brown's blood inside the police car is a real problem for the protestors, the real issue is what caused this 18 yr old to go sideways. Gary hit on it a bit earlier,

Break the cycle. The cycle feeds on punishment, not rehabilitation. It feeds on mom and dad working three jobs and the kids left to fend for themselves. If feeds because the parents can't come to parent teacher conferences. It feeds because the parents never learned how to raise a child. It feeds because they are to poor to be able to take the time to raise their children. It feeds because there are too many bad actors at close range who prey on their children and seduce them into a life of crime. Break the cycle.

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A problem I see with this situation is that people are convoluting what went wrong in Furguson and what are the deep rooted causes of it. They are differnt topics.

They are. The Grand Jury was never tasked with tackling racism. Why must every thing must be conflated with racism when many cases there is zero connection? It seems conflation is a universal rule with certain types (thought processes) of people.

Fix education and parenting and you can fix the problem. First as a parent you have to believe that your children can surpass you. Second you have to know that education is that route. Then you must provide a stable supportive environment to accomplish it. You also have to raise your children to respect the process of education and instil a desire to learn.

I don't know if ES has ever spent time in a USA inner city (ghetto) school. If so she might be aware of the huge amount of teaching time that is lost due to problems with classroom discipline. So a child in a inner city school gets less teaching every year. Who should we blame?

No matter what, this problem can't be fixed by a wave of a magic wand as some posters here seem to want of so many problems. This problem will require several generations to fix, and then there will always be some who simply can't get it.

A parallel is what happened to the First Peoples. They were collected on reservations. Call that a Ghetto. Somehow that step didn't end their actions against the settlers. Some military might (police) was used. That kept things at bay. Then it was decided to do forced education of white culture on the children, prohibiting learning of their own culture. That brought them into society, but destroyed their own. Those who still live on the reservations face extreme poverty. Now their own elders have turned on many with rules that say they aren't entitled to the riches (casino profits) of the tribe. They learned the lesson of the white man too well.

There never will be a 100% solution. Anyone who sets that as a goal is a fool. The process will be slow. Try it too fast and you could end up with the same thing that happened at the end of the civil war. It works for a while at gunpoint, but not enough time passes, before money and will run out and with it the guns, and Jim Crow is the result.

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Or at least that is what they say to your face.

ES that is rather snarky, you generally are better than that.

It was actually a toned down version of what I wanted to say.

Considering how pervasive racism is and the complete lack of understanding displayed by several posters in this thread I have my doubts as to whether this topic could be discussed safely by their black relatives in a way where they wouldn't feel that they were banging their heads against a brick wall.

I have no idea if that is the case, but it is a distinct possibility.

All I hear is "she this" and "she that" by people that really have no idea about structural racism. I am so disgusted right now that I really don't think I have anything constructive to add to this thread.

Too many of the posters here have a vested interest in the status quo.

My inlaws talk to me about racism, So do my grandkids. They dont have to beat their heads against any wall to discuss what goes on. I have been well aware of structual racism Since the mid 70's when I was stationed in Florida and South Carolina for 4 years.
I cant fight racism across the whole US. I can only fight the battle in my neck of the woods. And just because I support the grandjury ruling makes me a racist? I belive in the forensic eveidence. Until such time you can prove that it was rigged, Then I will come forth and say yes it was rigged also. Im sure the Feds will look at the facts also. And if they dont press charges, Then you can bet there is no case.
You dont know me or my family. I just dont think your cheap shot at me or my inlwas was warranted at all.

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[/quote]

Old James

The term Political Correctness comes to mind when reading some posts in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ASPUkkHMs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5Kjsz_Y2E
All "human races" are sometimes racists!

A parallel is what happened to the First Peoples. They were collected on reservations. Call that a Ghetto. Somehow that step didn't end their actions against the settlers. Some military might (police) was used. That kept things at bay. Then it was decided to do forced education of white culture on the children, prohibiting learning of their own culture. That brought them into society, but destroyed their own. Those who still live on the reservations face extreme poverty. Now their own elders have turned on many with rules that say they aren't entitled to the riches (casino profits) of the tribe. They learned the lesson of the white man too well.

Gary, I don't understand.

Deciding to make money (White Mans Lesson?) is not their Right? Why?

I live close to a First People's very large, and popular Entertainment Center. Casino's, Restaurant's, Top Shows, etc.

Non-First People Attending, and spending 'Mucho Dinero' (African - European - Asian and their Descendants) wonder - Who Won?

Let the First People decide.

Note: They may not really be The First People. But the longest surviving, before Europeans entered The Continent.

It isn't the making money, it is the distribution of the profits. They have become the stereotypical republican greedy bastard. The elders vote up or down who gets a share and in cases full blood living on the reservation don't get voted in. They learned the grubby greed lesson, which is not part of their ancestral culture. http://vimeo.com/fnxtv

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...

I don't know if ES has ever spent time in a USA inner city (ghetto) school. If so she might be aware of the huge amount of teaching time that is lost due to problems with classroom discipline. So a child in a inner city school gets less teaching every year. Who should we blame?

...

I spent most of my teaching career teaching in UK inner city (ghetto) schools. I am well aware of the teaching time lost due to problems with classroom discipline.

I taught for 3 years in a school were 99% of the students were black. I taught for another 4 years in schools were the students were from almost every race under the sun. I learned the the real causes of these problems is poverty and that there is no real difference between the races other than how they are treated. A lot of my students were of Afro-Caribbean descent. They had made up names because they had no access to their traditional names. Their families were aware that the surnames they held were the names of their ancestors slave-masters. They lost their history so decided to create their own. Slavery took even that from them.

I lived in a "ghetto" for nearly 20 years that suffered race riots due to deaths in police custody. I watched out of my window as local businesses were burnt to the ground by disaffected black youths, windows were smashed in and cars burnt. That was my neighbourhood and it was my neighbourhood that was looted and destroyed. So please don't tell me that I have no idea about race.

I've been the victim on a very few rare occasions of what Clyde would call "racism" except it wasn't racism. It might have been called bigotry or prejudice, but as a white person I always knew I had the power and the backing of the institutions. I never suffered because of racism, but I knew many, many people that did, and they weren't white.

Distrust of the police was so bad that if anyone, and I mean anyone of any race, was stopped by the police a crowd would gather to monitor what was going on and question the police as to why they were stopping this person. The police were aware of the perceptions of the people that they were meant to protect and had to change their whole policing policy. They did not have access to tanks and rocket launchers. So they had to actually find a way to connect with the local people and gain their trust.

I am aware of how many times that I have benefited from being white. This is called white privilege and most of the people in this thread benefit from it.

White privilege means I am more likely to get better jobs. I am less likely to have interactions with the police and when I do they are less likely to end up with me being arrested or hurt. I am less likely to be judged as dangerous or frightening. I am more likely to get teacher help in school and the teacher's will have higher expectations for me. I am more likely to be encouraged and supported to go to university. I am more likely to have family members in a position to support me because of the wealth (however small) that has accrued over the generations and been passed down. I am not starting with a deficit as so many African-American's are because of the legacy of slavery. White privilege means that I am more likely to get the benefit of the doubt. I am more likely to get justice through the court system. The culture all around us in the media and in school text books is my culture.

It is a simple fact that my life has been a lot easier because I am white.

This is white privilege.

My house was raided by armed police a few months ago in the middle of the night because someone made a prank call. My husband was away with his kids visiting his mother so it was just me and my two sons in the house.

I was awoken at 2am by loud banging on my bedroom window. I was disorientated because I had taken an over the counter sleeping pill and did not put on my glasses as I went to the front door to open it. I thought perhaps my son had been locked out.

It was the police and they were asking if someone had been stabbed in my house because there had been reports of a knife fight at my address. They asked if anyone was downstairs. In my confusion I was scared that someone was in my house stabbing my son. I am also slightly deaf so I had no real idea what they were saying and I didn't have my glasses on so I could only see the flashing lights of the police cars on my lawn and the blurs of officers in uniform. I had no idea they were armed with automatic rifles (my son told me afterwards).

I ignored the police commands to wait upstairs (which I hadn't heard properly anyway because of my poor hearing and my disorientation) while they went around the back to the basement door. I ran downstairs to protect my son.

According to many of you I failed to follow a police order and they had at that point every right to shoot me.

Why didn't they shoot me? If I'd been a black man in America would they have shot me at that point?

Downstairs I banged on my son's bedroom door, but the police were yelling outside my back door so I went to open it before they kicked it in.

They were very angry at me for ignoring them and pulled me into the back yard.

So, because of my hearing problems and because I was disorientated from a sleeping pill and scared for my son I had disobeyed more than one police order.

If I had been a black man in America how likely would I have been to have been shot at that point?

The police were now yelling at me to move aware from the house. I didn't have my glasses on and didn't even know where the house was any more.

The police still did not shoot me for not obeying a police order.

They banged on my son's door and ordered him to open up.

He thought it was his friends playing a prank on him and shouted "No!" at the police. He was 18 years old at the time and is 6'2". He could easily have been perceived as dangerous.

The police did not shoot him. If he had been a black man in America refusing a direct police order what would they have done at this point?

My son eventually opened his door and the police began to realise that there were no people armed with knives at the house. Just some people who had been asleep.

I think I was lucky that I did not get hurt and my son did not get hurt. The police thought someone armed with a knife was in the house and on several occasions we defied direct police orders due to confusion and on my part because I could not see and hear very well what was going on.

I think we were lucky because we were white. Maybe the Canadian police are better trained than the American police.

Mostly though, I think it was because we are white that this did not go tragically wrong.

If it had gone wrong and I'd been shot or hurt, I think the justice system would have done its job. I think a full investigation would have happened and the police officers would have faced charges for shooting an unarmed white woman.

In Ferguson this is not the case. There are so many obvious issues with the way the inquest was held that created bias. There are lots of inconsistencies in Darren Wilson's testimony that will never be challenged and there are enough contradictory witness statements that there needed to be a trial to get to the truth. The prosecutor did not do his job and create a case for prosecution. He acted like a defence lawyer.

That is not how justice is supposed to work.

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Reality Internet Personality

In Ferguson this is not the case. There are so many obvious issues with the way the inquest was held that created bias. There are lots of inconsistencies in Darren Wilson's testimony that will never be challenged and there are enough contradictory witness statements that there needed to be a trial to get to the truth. The prosecutor did not do his job and create a case for prosecution. He acted like a defence lawyer.

That is not how justice is supposed to work.[/quote]

That is just your opion. You believe in Social media justice. I belive in Facts and the rule of law. Just because the Grandjury did not vote for an indictment dose;nt mean this all over. The family can sue for wrongfull death in a civil court. Im sure there plenty of lawyers out there salivataing at the chance.

Seeing as neither of was there to witness what went down, You belive in the social media trial of what happend. I belive in the facts of the forensics investagation.

That is how justice is supposed to work.

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[/quote]

Old James

If it had gone wrong and I'd been shot or hurt, I think the justice system would have done its job. I think a full investigation would have happened and the police officers would have faced charges for shooting an unarmed white woman.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap
http://www.abajournal.com/gallery/warrior_cops/765
http://truth-out.org/news/item/20639-five-unnecessary-swat-team-raids-gone-terribly-wrong
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/utah-drug-raid-matthew-david-stewart_n_4138252.html
http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/A-costly-SWAT-raid-gone-wrong-4303215.php
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475
http://reason.com/archives/2014/05/18/another-drug-bust-gone-bad
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/georgia-drug-bust-gone-bad-elderly-woman-hospitalized
Somehow skin color doesn't seem to be the issue. Asset seizure and war on drugs seems to be the issue. When the legislature gave police the power to steal and the guns to do it and a pass on criminal charges .......

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If it had gone wrong and I'd been shot or hurt, I think the justice system would have done its job. I think a full investigation would have happened and the police officers would have faced charges for shooting an unarmed white woman.

A 5 foot - 3 inch tall, 115 pound women? Correct.

A 6 Foot - 4 inch tall, 240 pound women? No.

I was about a person much bigger, and stronger than the Officer, and therefore having the ability to physically disarm the Officer, and kill him.

Or have studied martial arts and the size difference becomes an advantage, especially with the forty pounds of gear a cop carries.

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Dear Byron Leigh Hatch

Thank you for your gift of $1099.99 via Visa on 11/28/2014

Your gift will benefit the following area:

SETI@home - $1099.99

Your confirmation number is: 142606

in honor of Es99

Byron! You're alive! Thanx so much for your generous donation yet again my friend... Hope you visit the Cafe real soon, we need a new Good Morning thread:)

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

If it had gone wrong and I'd been shot or hurt, I think the justice system would have done its job. I think a full investigation would have happened and the police officers would have faced charges for shooting an unarmed white woman.

A 5 foot - 3 inch tall, 115 pound women? Correct.

A 6 Foot - 4 inch tall, 240 pound women? No.

I was about a person much bigger, and stronger than the Officer, and therefore having the ability to physically disarm the Officer, and kill him.

Or have studied martial arts and the size difference becomes an advantage, especially with the forty pounds of gear a cop carries.

I agree. I worked with a woman who was a lot smaller than I was. That was back in my late 20's. She could lift 150 pounds like nothing. And she only weighed 125#. Then there is my wifes cousin she is mid 40s in age, Is about 5'8" and skinny. But she is a black belt in Karate. She works at the local high school as a resource officer. She has subdued a few male miscreants who have tried to fight her.
One who judges a persons fighting ability on size regardless of being male or female is a fool or dead.

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[/quote]

Old James

If it had gone wrong and I'd been shot or hurt, I think the justice system would have done its job. I think a full investigation would have happened and the police officers would have faced charges for shooting an unarmed white woman.

A 5 foot - 3 inch tall, 115 pound women? Correct.

A 6 Foot - 4 inch tall, 240 pound women? No.

I was about a person much bigger, and stronger than the Officer, and therefore having the ability to physically disarm the Officer, and kill him.

Or have studied martial arts and the size difference becomes an advantage, especially with the forty pounds of gear a cop carries.

I agree. I worked with a woman who was a lot smaller than I was. That was back in my late 20's. She could lift 150 pounds like nothing. And she only weighed 125#. Then there is my wifes cousin she is mid 40s in age, Is about 5'8" and skinny. But she is a black belt in Karate. She works at the local high school as a resource officer. She has subdued a few male miscreants who have tried to fight her.
One who judges a persons fighting ability on size regardless of being male or female is a fool or dead.

Exactly. I am not a small woman either. I am 5'8" and I work out. So I guess I deserved to be shot for being roused from my bed in the middle of the night because of a prank call.

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Reality Internet Personality

I'm not dangerous, but a pregnant woman in a car is apparently, I wonder what the difference could be...

Ferguson police tactics under scrutiny after woman blinded in one eye

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Reality Internet Personality

I'm not dangerous, but a pregnant woman in a car is apparently, I wonder what the difference could be...

Ferguson police tactics under scrutiny after woman blinded in one eye

No disrespect to the woman, but WTH was she doing driving around an area that is highly contentious? & pregnant as well? She got any brain cells in that head of hers?

Dear Byron Leigh Hatch
Thank you for your gift of $1099.99 via Visa on 11/28/2014
Your gift will benefit the following area:

SETI@home - $1099.99
Your confirmation number is: 142606

in honor of Es99

Byron thank you so much, and a more worthy recipient I can't imagine.

So, because of my hearing problems and because I was disorientated from a sleeping pill and scared for my son I had disobeyed more than one police order.

Es, if you have serious hearing problems, then you need to get that sorted out, and a hearing aid if necessary, like it or not, especially earning a living as teacher. And bearing all that in mind perhaps your other half should be a bit more circumspect about going away in future.

The rest of you just watch your step, your are insulting a friend of mine. The fact that she is quite capable of defending herself is irrelevant. You are incurring my distinct displeasure.

So why have you come down to their level by making threats you know you cannot enforce?

I'm not dangerous, but a pregnant woman in a car is apparently, I wonder what the difference could be...

Ferguson police tactics under scrutiny after woman blinded in one eye

No disrespect to the woman, but WTH was she doing driving around an area that is highly contentious? & pregnant as well? She got any brain cells in that head of hers?

Maybe she lives around there?

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Reality Internet Personality

I'm not dangerous, but a pregnant woman in a car is apparently, I wonder what the difference could be...

Ferguson police tactics under scrutiny after woman blinded in one eye

No disrespect to the woman, but WTH was she doing driving around an area that is highly contentious? & pregnant as well? She got any brain cells in that head of hers?

Maybe she lives around there?

So? That doesn't answer the question!

However, she answered that question herself...

"I weren’t looting or anything. I was just out with my boyfriend. We were just riding around respecting Mike Brown,” she told KMOV."

So again! Where is her brain cells?

...

So, because of my hearing problems and because I was disorientated from a sleeping pill and scared for my son I had disobeyed more than one police order.

Es, if you have serious hearing problems, then you need to get that sorted out, and a hearing aid if necessary, like it or not, especially earning a living as teacher.

I have always been border line for a hearing aid and far too vain to get one. However, I think my hearing has got worse and you are probably right. It is the lower tones that I have trouble with, such as men speaking. I've never considered it a big problem until I had a load of them yelling at me in the middle of the night. I wouldn't have been wearing a hearing aid at that point anyway seeing as I forgot to put my glasses on at the time.

And bearing all that in mind perhaps your other half should be a bit more circumspect about going away in future.

Really?

I don't understand your thinking behind that comment. You are going to have to explain what you mean by it.

The rest of you just watch your step, your are insulting a friend of mine. The fact that she is quite capable of defending herself is irrelevant. You are incurring my distinct displeasure.

I am quite capable of defending myself.

If you really feel the need to support me then add something relevant to the debate. Otherwise you are actually guilty of something called "benevolent sexism".

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Reality Internet Personality