One of these days, humanity will do one 'crap' too many, and extinct we will go. This is a near certainty. Once again, score one for Darwin's theory of Evolution.

Maybe this a proof of Darwin's theory of Evolution.
Speices not sutible to adapt to sudden climate changes are sooner or later becoming extinct.
Oops, already happening. Especially in the Arctic regions and the alpes.

One of these days, humanity will do one 'crap' too many, and extinct we will go. This is a near certainty. Once again, score one for Darwin's theory of Evolution.

Yes 100% if we haven't already gone too far

You say that evolution does not apply to Homo sapiens because of Homo sapiens' ability to think. A very good case can be made that it still most CERTAINLY does apply to us *because* of our ability to think combined with our lack of wisdom to be able to exist without crapping all over our 'nest'.

It is a pity we have the intelligence but not the will , when we do finally get the will then Darwin will have a less effect .

The Co 2 will do us all in , "like a theft in the night"

Population just needs the will to be able to , not be a problem , same as pollution . If we can pollute why can't we unpollute ?

That little green monster called GREEED

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No, That little green monster called SEX.

Or to put it another way: Population [SEX] control.

Clyde why are for whant of a better word 1st world country's having a problem with a aging population ?

Where are the children to take there place ?

Even China , Japan so it's not just the western country's

Wealth and choice to do things , go places , have fun , Blah Blah

People just don't want kids , life stile choices ....greed ...

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No, That little green monster called SEX.

Or to put it another way: Population [SEX] control.

Clyde why are for whant of a better word 1st world country's having a problem with a aging population ?

Where are the children to take there place ?

Even China , Japan so it's not just the western country's

Wealth and choice to do things , go places , have fun , Blah Blah

People just don't want kids , life stile choices ....greed ...

Why should people have kids if they don't want them? They are expensive and certainly constrain your life choices.

There seems to still be a myth that the global population is growing out of control. Its not, its actually stabilising and will eventually start to decrease as more women get access to contraception.

Very few women actually want to be baby making factories, believe it or not.

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Reality Internet Personality

No, That little green monster called SEX.
Or to put it another way: Population [SEX] control.

Clyde why are for whant of a better word 1st world country's having a problem with a aging population ?
Where are the children to take there place ?
Even China , Japan so it's not just the western country's
Wealth and choice to do things , go places , have fun , Blah Blah
People just don't want kids , life stile choices ....greed ...

“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”

― Richard P. Feynman

Why should people have kids if they don't want them? They are expensive and certainly constrain your life choices.

There seems to still be a myth that the global population is growing out of control. Its not, its actually stabilising and will eventually start to decrease as more women get access to contraception.

Very few women actually want to be baby making factories, believe it or not.

Don't get me wrong girlfriend , but i do get a bit annoyed when women say they don't wish to have at least 1 . I understand there are situations where it's not possible but we do need to replace our self's and us fella's can't do it , it is getting a little hard for you girls to run the i wan't to work and have a life in today's world what with childcare .

If ya single fair enough but married different story

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Why should people have kids if they don't want them? They are expensive and certainly constrain your life choices.

There seems to still be a myth that the global population is growing out of control. Its not, its actually stabilising and will eventually start to decrease as more women get access to contraception.

Very few women actually want to be baby making factories, believe it or not.

Don't get me wrong girlfriend , but i do get a bit annoyed when women say they don't wish to have at least 1 . I understand there are situations where it's not possible but we do need to replace our self's and us fella's can't do it , it is getting a little hard for you girls to run the i wan't to work and have a life in today's world what with childcare .

If ya single fair enough but married different story

O.o

Glenn, you are more that a little brave saying that. I question the wisdom of said statement of yours. Surely, the decision is still up to the woman, even *when* married.

O.o

Glenn, you are more that a little brave saying that. I question the wisdom of said statement of yours. Surely, the decision is still up to the woman, even *when* married.

Yeah..there is so much wrong with Glen's statement that I'm not sure where to start.

If baby making is so important to him, well the science is almost there to allow men to carry children. Then he can put his money where his mouth is.

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Reality Internet Personality

Gosh, wondered if I was reading a Tea Party manifesto ......

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Gosh, wondered if I was reading a Tea Party manifesto ......

Scary isn't it?

Scarier when you are woman reading people claim that your job is to carry babies for men whether you want to or not.

*shudders*

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Reality Internet Personality

Gosh, wondered if I was reading a Tea Party manifesto ......

Scary isn't it?

Scarier when you are woman reading people claim that your job is to carry babies for men whether you want to or not.

*shudders*

Yes the sex perverts that make up many organized religions are the most vile filthy redacted .....

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aahhh Ess only joking sorry lady's yes it is your choice to have babies .

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Population 'stability' only occurs, when the 'Third World' population becomes as wealthy. As the 'First World' is.

Unfortunately, this will result in more CO2, and other pollutants.

No it doesn't have to be that way. You assume that the third world will increase in wealth. The other way is the first world loses its wealth.

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Population 'stability' only occurs, when the 'Third World' population becomes as wealthy. As the 'First World' is.

Unfortunately, this will result in more CO2, and other pollutants.

No it doesn't have to be that way. You assume that the third world will increase in wealth. The other way is the first world loses its wealth.

You also assume that the third world builds it's economy on carbon based technology, which isn't actually proving to be the case. They are in an excellent position to use green technology right from the start.

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Reality Internet Personality

Africa is now much better educated.
http://bit.ly/1LkBD7X

In Malawi, a low income country in Africa 1 in 10 housholds has electricity, but 5 in 10 has mobile phone!
http://bit.ly/1OPO25o

Half the world’s population lives in this circle.
The Report of the Oxford Martin Commission for Future Generations
Demographics.
From @oxmartinschool: http://bit.ly/1EMhwZI

Population 'stability' only occurs, when the 'Third World' population becomes as wealthy. As the 'First World' is.

Unfortunately, this will result in more CO2, and other pollutants.

No it doesn't have to be that way. You assume that the third world will increase in wealth. The other way is the first world loses its wealth.

You also assume that the third world builds it's economy on carbon based technology, which isn't actually proving to be the case. They are in an excellent position to use green technology right from the start.

Es,

You have a valid point here. And so does Gary. And so does Clyde.

But, there is a more immediate problem that NEEDS solving. By the way, solving this more immediate problem will go a LONG way towards solving the GHG-ACC problem that is the proper subject of this thread, so it IS relevant to the discussion here.

The problem is 'sustainability'. That is to say that the current human population is consuming the planet's resources faster than the planet can produce them. And there are a lot more resources that are needed other than just 'energy' as you are discussing. Resources that we are already running short of. Resources such as (as has been in the news of late) water.

Per that NASA/JPL press release of a week or two ago, the US State of California has about 1 year's worth of surface water left. And to make up for the deficit, they are pumping ground water out of wells at a furious rate, causing the land to drop by about 1 foot per year in some places as the aquifers collapse as they are pumped dry.

And California is not the only place with this problem. Consider the Sao Paulo area of Brazil. They are going to be out in about (last I heard, a week or two ago) 1 month. There are others scattered all over the planet. And this is just one resource... water. There are others, such as food and raw-materials.

You 3 have mentioned 'wealth'. Higher wealth implies higher standard-of-living. Higher standard-of-living implies higher per capita resource consumption.

At current population levels, about 7 billion, not even the standard-of-living of the poorest people on the planet is sustainable. The poorest 2 billion of us consume per capita about 12% too much to be sustainable.

If everyone on the planet had the standard-of-living of our poorest, the population cap for sustainability would be about 6.2 billion.

If everyone on the planet had the 'world average' standard of living, the population cap for sustainability would be a bit over 4 billion.

If everyone on the planet had the somewhat piggy 'European average' standard of living, the population cap for sustainability would be about 2 billion.

And, if everyone on the planet had the very piggy 'USA average' standard of living, the population cap for sustainability would be about 1 billion.

Failure to address this problem in a somewhat rapid time-frame will cause resource wars over the remaining resources the likes of which we have never seen.

We have already seen wars (or so many say) over oil.

Wait too much longer and we will see 'raw-materials' wars, 'food' wars, and 'water' wars too.

As I said, solve the resource-consuption sustainability issue, and we will go a LONG way towards solving the GHG-ACC issue. Fail to solve this sustainability issue, and the GHG-ACC issue just won't really matter.

Desertification is caused by a variety of factors, such as climate change and human activities. Desertification is a significant global ecological and environmental problem.

... You also assume that the third world builds it's economy on carbon based technology, which isn't actually proving to be the case. They are in an excellent position to use green technology right from the start.

Es,

You have a valid point here. And so does Gary. And so does Clyde.

... The problem is 'sustainability'. That is to say that the current human population is consuming the planet's resources faster than the planet can produce them.

... We have already seen wars (or so many say) over oil.

Wait too much longer and we will see 'raw-materials' wars, 'food' wars, and 'water' wars too.

As I said, solve the resource-consuption sustainability issue, and we will go a LONG way towards solving the GHG-ACC issue. Fail to solve this sustainability issue, and the GHG-ACC issue just won't really matter.

Very good points all round, thanks.

Two 'cultural' aspects that need to be overcome for "1st world" sustainability are:

The financial markets predisposition to demand continuous growth;

And the Marketing predisposition to coerce disposable wasteful "consumerism" as opposed to sustainability and recycling.


And then as recently pounded out, there is politics and Fossil Fuels corruption and their corrupt lobbying of the politics...


The rest of the world follows...

So what can be done?... People power and revolution?... Or a new politics?


All in our only one world,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Meanwhile, here in the UK we have some windy weather and...

We have Wind Power, Combined-Cycle Gas Turbines, and Nuclear all neck and neck at about 6.5GW each (18% each of demand, coal is at 12GW plus others for 35GW total).


Shame there are no figures for what Solar contributes to all that lot... (Something around 5GW during the day.)


Where there is a political will, there is a way...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I have to ask.
Many here talks about the first and third World.
Where is the second world?

:)