Back when I was just a newbie in the AirForce ( 72-80 ) I knew quite a few guys who were told by the Judge jail or enlist. Every single one of them told me they made the wisest choice. What suprised me the most is that several on my NCO's told me they had to make that choice. These were guys that enlisted in the mid to late 50's and were nearing the end of there 20 years. And I will say they were damn fine NCO's also.

I did some really stupid things as a teenager my self that Im sure not proud of. I did have the cops called on me once for soaping windows on halloween back in 1967. The Cop told me to wash all the windows I did. And some I didnt too. The lesson I learned is not to listen to your friends when they want to do something stupid, ( they left me holding the bag )And to say no Im not doing that stupid thing and walk away from said stupid friends.
Thats is wisdom I learned a long damn time ago. And it still holds true to this day.

No I never did anything to hurt anyone ever, we would tip over a outhouse or do some other things but nothing to put us in jail, but some of these guy's today? bring back the draft, don't you agree?

Tipping over out houses? LOL My dad did that back in the late 30"s a and early 40's. My dad was shocked one night when my Grand mother got a telephone call asking to speak to my dad. Seems the farmer wanted his outhouse put back upright.
When I enlisted the AF had what they called correction flights. We had one guy from Chigago who thought he was a bad ass. I watched my TI pick him up one handed by the neck and hold him there. The bad ass was gone the next day to the correction flight. We saw him later on during one of are training exercises. Thes e guys were treated like they were in prison. They had to ask permission to do anything. we did get to talk to him as lesson on what not to do. And he said he screwed up big by thinking he was a tough guy. He found out there is always some one tougher.
I dont know about drafting kids any more. But I think that offering them a choice of jail or 4 years in a service, Would do them a world of good. Will ot make men out of all of them? No, But it would most of them.

Edit- And if anyone thinks we are drifting off topic. Please chime in.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Back when I was just a newbie in the AirForce ( 72-80 ) I knew quite a few guys who were told by the Judge jail or enlist. Every single one of them told me they made the wisest choice. What suprised me the most is that several on my NCO's told me they had to make that choice. These were guys that enlisted in the mid to late 50's and were nearing the end of there 20 years. And I will say they were damn fine NCO's also.

No I never did anything to hurt anyone ever, we would tip over a outhouse or do some other things but nothing to put us in jail, but some of these guy's today? bring back the draft, don't you agree?

I think those days are past. Between the high-tech equipment even ground-pounding Infantry carry, and the current personnel draw-down, the services are able to be very selective as to whom they accept. And any serious criminal activity or jail time (even juvenile detention) are show-stoppers.

And for similar reasons, misconduct is not dealt with the way it was in our day. Instead of a privare, off-the-record, session with a tough old Chief or Sargeant, anything other than minor infractions can get you an administrative separation if not Article 15 Non-Judicial Punishment, or some level of Court-Martial. And there is Zero-tolerance for drug use or alcohol-related misconduct. Getting drunk and stupid can cost you your carreer and pension.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

But if you look at the mass killings that are being done today. Its not war vets. Its young high school or college age kids.
I dont know whats going on and that is beyond this thread. But it seems our youth have some very serious stress going on.

I had a conversation with a friend this afternoon about what she sees in school as a volunteer. She said so many kids, even as young as 1st grade, are just messed up nowadays. I'm going to go out on a very precarious limb, and say I think both parents working is a big part of the problem. I grew up in a very traditional situation, where my dad took the bus to work, and my mom stayed home, and I felt secure. I've got problems like we all do, but my home life really made me who I am today, and that's one of the reasons why I love my mother so much. My parents were not self-absorbed people. They really cared about each other and the child they brought into the world. ~That's the bottom line to me.

---

The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I think also that kids are being pressuerd into buying the COOL things so they can fit in with the COOL people. If you dont have this THING your a nobody.
That kind of crap was going on back when I was in school. Class of 1971. But listening to my grandkids it is way much worse now.

It seems kids cant be kids anymore. They have to be collage ready when they are still in grade school. They cant play anymore because they have so much damn home work. And they are addicted to social media and vidio games. And nowdays we have cyber bullying. So akid can get 24 hours of non stop dread.

To tell you the truth Im glad Im an old man now. I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

---

[/quote]

Old James

I think also that kids are being pressuerd into buying the COOL things so they can fit in with the COOL people. If you dont have this THING your a nobody.
That kind of crap was going on back when I was in school. Class of 1971. But listening to my grandkids it is way much worse now.

It seems kids cant be kids anymore. They have to be collage ready when they are still in grade school. They cant play anymore because they have so much damn home work. And they are addicted to social media and vidio games. And nowdays we have cyber bullying. So akid can get 24 hours of non stop dread.

To tell you the truth Im glad Im an old man now. I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

Lisa is a ten year old kid with a brain of a 25 year old *sigh* She's so grown up and she's so smart... You're right James, they ask more and more of the kids these days and it's not easy for them and especially not for my kids, after all they went through...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I think also that kids are being pressuerd into buying the COOL things so they can fit in with the COOL people. If you dont have this THING your a nobody.
That kind of crap was going on back when I was in school. Class of 1971. But listening to my grandkids it is way much worse now.

It seems kids cant be kids anymore. They have to be collage ready when they are still in grade school. They cant play anymore because they have so much damn home work. And they are addicted to social media and video games. And nowadays we have cyber bullying. So a kid can get 24 hours of non stop dread.

To tell you the truth Im glad Im an old man now. I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

Lisa is a ten year old kid with a brain of a 25 year old *sigh* She's so grown up and she's so smart... You're right James, they ask more and more of the kids these days and it's not easy for them and especially not for my kids, after all they went through...

At least when I grew up I could escape any bullying when I was at home, yeah our school had a bully or rather bullies, a set of twins, they were double trouble.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

I think also that kids are being pressuerd into buying the COOL things so they can fit in with the COOL people. If you dont have this THING your a nobody.
That kind of crap was going on back when I was in school. Class of 1971. But listening to my grandkids it is way much worse now.

It seems kids cant be kids anymore. They have to be collage ready when they are still in grade school. They cant play anymore because they have so much damn home work. And they are addicted to social media and video games. And nowadays we have cyber bullying. So a kid can get 24 hours of non stop dread.

To tell you the truth Im glad Im an old man now. I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

Lisa is a ten year old kid with a brain of a 25 year old *sigh* She's so grown up and she's so smart... You're right James, they ask more and more of the kids these days and it's not easy for them and especially not for my kids, after all they went through...

At least when I grew up I could escape any bullying when I was at home, yeah our school had a bully or rather bullies, a set of twins, they were double trouble.

Lisa is a bully herself, especially with her sister *sigh*, it's almost pathological... I will have A LOT of work with that kid when she grows older *sigh* She tries to hurt people, including me, with the most hurtful things she can think of, and the worst is, she realizes everything and she's laughing with it as well *sigh*

[edit] But what people may say of her (and they say a lot...) she will always remain my daughter and I will go through any fire for her but if she remains harassing Yoko like that, consequences will follow...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I think also that kids are being pressuerd into buying the COOL things so they can fit in with the COOL people. If you dont have this THING your a nobody.
That kind of crap was going on back when I was in school. Class of 1971. But listening to my grandkids it is way much worse now.

It seems kids cant be kids anymore. They have to be collage ready when they are still in grade school. They cant play anymore because they have so much damn home work. And they are addicted to social media and video games. And nowadays we have cyber bullying. So a kid can get 24 hours of non stop dread.

To tell you the truth Im glad Im an old man now. I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

Lisa is a ten year old kid with a brain of a 25 year old *sigh* She's so grown up and she's so smart... You're right James, they ask more and more of the kids these days and it's not easy for them and especially not for my kids, after all they went through...

At least when I grew up I could escape any bullying when I was at home, yeah our school had a bully or rather bullies, a set of twins, they were double trouble.

Lisa is a bully herself, especially with her sister *sigh*, it's almost pathological... I will have A LOT of work with that kid when she grows older *sigh* She tries to hurt people, including me, with the most hurtful things she can think of, and the worst is, she realizes everything and she's laughing with it as well *sigh*

[edit] But what people may say of her (and they say a lot...) she will always remain my daughter and I will go through any fire for her but if she remains harassing Yoko like that, consequences will follow...

I knew from age 10yrs, that all actions have consequences, of course other kids didn't care, they did stupid and sometimes hurtful stuff anyway.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

Well, I think I could do it again.......

---

I think also that kids are being pressuerd into buying the COOL things so they can fit in with the COOL people. If you dont have this THING your a nobody.
That kind of crap was going on back when I was in school. Class of 1971. But listening to my grandkids it is way much worse now.

It seems kids cant be kids anymore. They have to be collage ready when they are still in grade school. They cant play anymore because they have so much damn home work. And they are addicted to social media and video games. And nowadays we have cyber bullying. So a kid can get 24 hours of non stop dread.

To tell you the truth Im glad Im an old man now. I dont think Id like to be a kid today.

Lisa is a ten year old kid with a brain of a 25 year old *sigh* She's so grown up and she's so smart... You're right James, they ask more and more of the kids these days and it's not easy for them and especially not for my kids, after all they went through...

At least when I grew up I could escape any bullying when I was at home, yeah our school had a bully or rather bullies, a set of twins, they were double trouble.

Lisa is a bully herself, especially with her sister *sigh*, it's almost pathological... I will have A LOT of work with that kid when she grows older *sigh* She tries to hurt people, including me, with the most hurtful things she can think of, and the worst is, she realizes everything and she's laughing with it as well *sigh*

[edit] But what people may say of her (and they say a lot...) she will always remain my daughter and I will go through any fire for her but if she remains harassing Yoko like that, consequences will follow...

I knew from age 10yrs, that all actions have consequences, of course other kids didn't care, they did stupid and sometimes hurtful stuff anyway.

Lisa has always been a very difficult kid, she has her fathers character, very antisocial and harsh, honest, but harsh. The two other children slept a lot in our bed when they were little, Lisa never did. It has only been since after the accident she cuddles (very rarely). We had long talks already where she's letting me know she doesn't feel so good. I try to talk in an intelligent way with her, cause that's what she likes, but nothing helps, she keeps on seeing things and people in a very negative way. The psychologist says that I have a good influence though, calming and soothing for her. She is such a smart kid, with so much possibilities within her. I will do everything to help her getting where she wants to be and where she feels good, but it's a long way. We're getting there though.

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

Thank you Mike:) See, you two guys got over it!

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

Thank you Mike:) See, you two guys got over it!

Its rather a endless process.
He is improving tho.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

Thank you Mike:) See, you two guys got over it!

Its rather a endless process.
He is improving tho.

He is? After his puberty I guess...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

Thank you Mike:) See, you two guys got over it!

Its rather a endless process.
He is improving tho.

He is? After his puberty I guess...

Some things take a looooooooong time and a lot of patience.
Praying God gives you as much of both as is needed......

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

Thank you Mike:) See, you two guys got over it!

Its rather a endless process.
He is improving tho.

He is? After his puberty I guess...

Some things take a looooooooong time and a lot of patience.
Praying God gives you as much of both as is needed......

Thank you Donald:)

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I`ll keep my fingers crossed Julie.
One of my sons is very similar.

Thank you Mike:) See, you two guys got over it!

Its rather a endless process.
He is improving tho.

He is? After his puberty I guess...

Oh well.
It took much longer than that.
He is 26 now but he only started to understand approx 5 years ago.

Donald is correct.
Lot of patience required and thats not one of my pros.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

She is such a smart kid, with so much possibilities within her. I will do everything to help her getting where she wants to be and where she feels good, but it's a long way. We're getting there though.

She has sadly had to grow up too quickly in a very short time, but she has a sensible mother, so the future is looking positive. I'm quite sure that you will use the professional support available when necessary.

Thank you Chris, and Mike. Sensible as in teaching her the 'good' ways, I'm sure she understands, she's my kid. A father plays a different role though Mike. A mother is too emotional at times...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

She is such a smart kid, with so much possibilities within her. I will do everything to help her getting where she wants to be and where she feels good, but it's a long way. We're getting there though.

She has sadly had to grow up too quickly in a very short time, but she has a sensible mother, so the future is looking positive. I'm quite sure that you will use the professional support available when necessary.

Thank you Chris, and Mike. Sensible as in teaching her the 'good' ways, I'm sure she understands, she's my kid. A father plays a different role though Mike. A mother is too emotional at times...

You dont know me still then.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Of course not everyone gets that stable relationship, cause sometimes a lack of money and other stuff get in the way. Which can lead to arguments over money and even lead to divorce and I know of that first hand.

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's