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Message 1385623 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 1:46:26 UTC
Last modified: 29 Jun 2013, 1:47:00 UTC

Circuit recognizing that business owners have religious liberty rights. This was the first definitive federal appellate ruling against the HHS mandate.
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Message 1385651 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 3:24:20 UTC - in response to Message 1385623.

ID, I am old enough to remember seeing signs in stores stating they "reserved the right to refuse service to anyone". Thar meant blacks, today you say it means whomever.
If you are granted a business license you are expected to follow certain rules. The courts have said racial discrimination is forbidden, why is sexual discrimination different?
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Message 1385671 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 4:32:00 UTC - in response to Message 1385623.

Sign: "Christians not permitted."

I just love it! Now it is the law of the land.

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Message 1385785 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 13:22:41 UTC

I'm real sure neither of you can read for content.


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Message 1385822 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 15:55:42 UTC

Unintentional side effects. Be careful what you wish for.


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Message 1385875 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 20:11:21 UTC - in response to Message 1385822.

Unintentional side effects. Be careful what you wish for.



I wish you would read for content. I was very clear the first time.

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Message 1385884 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 20:26:44 UTC - in response to Message 1385875.

Unintentional side effects. Be careful what you wish for.



I wish you would read for content. I was very clear the first time.


Yes you were, businesses have the rights to religious liberty:

In its landmark opinion yesterday, the 10th Circuit majority found that “no one” – not even the government – “disputes the sincerity of Hobby Lobby’s religious beliefs.” The court ruled that denying them the protection of federal law just because they are a profit-making business “would conflict with the Supreme Court’s free exercise precedent.”


Which appears to mean that another business can now, lawfully, post a "Catholics not permitted" sign at their entrance. What's good for the goose ...
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1385889 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 20:46:18 UTC - in response to Message 1385884.

Unintentional side effects. Be careful what you wish for.



I wish you would read for content. I was very clear the first time.


Yes you were, businesses have the rights to religious liberty:

In its landmark opinion yesterday, the 10th Circuit majority found that “no one” – not even the government – “disputes the sincerity of Hobby Lobby’s religious beliefs.” The court ruled that denying them the protection of federal law just because they are a profit-making business “would conflict with the Supreme Court’s free exercise precedent.”


Which appears to mean that another business can now, lawfully, post a "Catholics not permitted" sign at their entrance. What's good for the goose ...

Frothing people usually fail to be able to even look as far as the end of their own nose.

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Message 1385909 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 21:58:04 UTC

There are hidden pitfalls in banning "certain types of people".
I recall a few years ago a canal side pub/restaurant that had a big sign up saying "No boaters". At the time boaters were "famed" for their somewhat casual attire (if not downright filthy in some cases). We got wind of this, and one night we decided to "set the record straight". A group of us arrived by boat, moored up fairly close by and walked in through the front door and requested a table for 8. We were shown into the restaurant with no problems (Three of us in dress uniform, one a tux, and the four ladies "properly dressed"). We ordered our meals and settled down to the small talk. Just before our hors-dervs arrived another group of eight arrived, parking their Jag and Merc out side, and coming in through the lounge door. The owner exploded at them along the lines "Get those filthy boater out". We obligingly stood up and marched out and headed back to the boat. The owner was by now purple with rage, not sure what was going on as he tried to pursued the others to go back to their boat, not the nice cars in the car park. They did leave, but only after making it known that a dress code would be more appropriate than a "type of person" code.
So don't gloat when you see a sign banning a type of person, but think about the reason behind the ban, and the implications of getting things wrong.

(I am happy to say that the pub did change to a dress code shortly after this event.)
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Message 1385918 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 22:23:59 UTC

Civil Code Section 51 wrote:
"All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, or sexual orientation are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever."

Live it or bigot!

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Message 1385957 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 1:41:29 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jun 2013, 1:42:41 UTC

Ummm, I ask that you read once more and this time for content. You all have not read this piece I have posted. And have been talking out your butts for a day. Not one of you have posted on topic, not one of you have read the piece for content so none of you know a damn thing about this topic at all.

The Ruling was about the HHS mandate to pay for abortion pills, birth control pills. The owner has a right to follow his/her own conscience. Now that I have put you all BACK ON TOPIC Id expect you all to stay on topic. If you cannot your posts will be removed. Thank you for your time.

It will do you no good to bait me.

Here let me make it easy for you moderators, if it doesn't have anything to do with the HHS mandate dealing with abortion pills, birth control pills and how Hobby Lobby is involved in this, remove it.
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Message 1385961 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 1:50:18 UTC - in response to Message 1385957.
Last modified: 30 Jun 2013, 1:59:01 UTC

Kyle Duncan, General Counsel with the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, who represents Hobby Lobby. “We are delighted that both the 10th Circuit and the district court have spared them from this unjust burden on their religious freedom.

ID, this says it all, If my beliefs are that short Catholics upset my sense of well being then I can deny you service at my lunch counter. If you think that is far fetched, I do do know Catholic hating bigots.
Religious bigotry is now legal.
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Message 1385969 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 2:27:01 UTC - in response to Message 1385961.

Kyle Duncan, General Counsel with the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, who represents Hobby Lobby. “We are delighted that both the 10th Circuit and the district court have spared them from this unjust burden on their religious freedom.

ID, this says it all, If my beliefs are that short Catholics upset my sense of well being then I can deny you service at my lunch counter. If you think that is far fetched, I do do know Catholic hating bigots.
Religious bigotry is now legal.


Once gain people here make broad sweeping comments without thinking even a little bit at all. Not only do the people who own Hobby Lobby make and sell hobby goods they also sell CHRISTIAN BOOKS, the book store side of the biz is also BROAD and sells all kinds of Christian books, Catholic, and Lutheran, and etc, etc, ect...

God hating bigotry has always legal. Your point here? Make a point or drop it.
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Message 1385971 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 2:31:31 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 19:54:35 UTC

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Message 1385973 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 2:43:23 UTC - in response to Message 1385969.

My point is, practicing bigotry as a business policy is wrong and was illegal under the federal and most state laws.
Move to the back of the bus you Muslims and Catholics. My state licensed business will only trade with those whose beliefs I agree with.

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Message 1385975 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 2:49:11 UTC - in response to Message 1385971.

If you're not a female employee of Hobby Lobby, how does this ruling affect you?

Guy, the answer is simple, the same way Rosa Parks affected me. I am not nor ever have been a black woman living in the segregated south, but what went on there affected everybody in this country.

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Message 1385976 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 2:52:55 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 19:54:15 UTC

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Message 1385984 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 3:14:27 UTC - in response to Message 1385976.

Guy, that's an eloquent solution, Hobby Lobby should not hire women. Then they can enforce their religious practices only on men.
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Message 1386000 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 3:54:08 UTC - in response to Message 1385976.

Well then, the answer is simple.

You need to stop FORCING WOMEN to work at Hobby Lobby.

Oh, why do it the hard way and bring the wrath of the EEOC down on Hobby Lobby. Do it the easy way, Hobby Lobby has no employees, then no one can complain.

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Message 1386011 - Posted: 30 Jun 2013, 4:20:33 UTC

It's a choice to work there. Man or woman. Its also a choice to leave there.
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