Lunatics Windows Installer v0.41 Release Notes

Message boards : Number crunching : Lunatics Windows Installer v0.41 Release Notes
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 . . . 17 · Next

AuthorMessage
kittyman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 51468
Credit: 1,018,363,574
RAC: 1,004
United States
Message 1377906 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 8:53:14 UTC - in response to Message 1377905.  

Yes, this looks like the correct way.

Then it is strange that on my system (Win XP) it is hardcoded (copy is from 'Edit System Variable' window, not from CMD, and I didn't edited it manually ever):

%CommonProgramFiles%\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;D:\Program Files\AMD APP\bin\x86;D:\WINDOWS\system32;D:\WINDOWS;D:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;H:\Programs.XP\Samsung;H:\ASRAPI\BIN;D:\Program Files\Common Files\Teleca Shared;D:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTSystem\;D:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static


Without any proof whatsoever I'd put the blame on some lousy installer reading the variable in its expanded form and then writing it back like that.

That looks plausible. On an almost vanilla Windows XP with BOINC-related additions, the path is:

PATH=C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\CUDA\bin

So guess which installer we blame ;P

OK, I've got the message - and many, many thanks for continuing to explore this while I caught my breath after Monday. OK, now we know where the problem lies, I've got two or three possibilities for a workround - I'll let them marinade for a day or two.

There was an important update to the BOINC source code yesterday, which affects all BOINC applications (across all projects, not just us) - especially GPU apps. So it's just possible that we may have to update the installer with another full release, sooner rather than later. If so, that would be an ideal opportunity to deploy whatever solution we come up with.

I look forward to whatever marginal updates you have to offer.
I shall download them forthwith.



"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

ID: 1377906 · Report as offensive
Profile William
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Feb 13
Posts: 2037
Credit: 17,689,662
RAC: 0
Message 1377909 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 8:56:02 UTC - in response to Message 1377874.  

hi / just a stupid beginer's request

i recently performed upgrade to latest setiathome version + w32 041 optimizer
after many many attempts (remove/reinstall); i can see the time to compute a wu with my gpu (650ti) simply doubled; compared to ""before;
Even when CPU's are idle; it simply takes twice than before
I tried also to update to the latest nvidia driver
i can see i m using cuda32/ x41zc ;
so all looks correct to me and i face a pretty stable situation
therefore i come with 2 questions
1 would you mind to tell me where to dig first ?
2 Is there anywhere info/bench on expected crunch time for with various gpu which coud help to figure out roughtly if on track or not
i suspect i have something wrong but miss the point

txs in advance cheers:jpp


If I'm not mistaken a 650Ti is a Kepler so you want to choose the cuda 5.0 app not cuda 32. Crunch times have increased but not doubled - if you are running multiple tasks at once you should drop by at least one.

Your hosts are hidden, so I can't check individual task performance and accuracy.
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. (Mark Twain)
ID: 1377909 · Report as offensive
__W__
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Mar 09
Posts: 116
Credit: 5,943,642
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1378022 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 13:42:18 UTC - in response to Message 1376650.  

Back after some days of testing and hunting down my problems runing a complet AP-WU with the r1797-opt version.

First of all, their is no problem creating/reading/writing the corresponding *.wisdom file. I observed this with ProcessMonitor(Sysinternals) and this works fine :-)

Second step, i looked at the process itself with ProcessExplorer(Sysinternals). I discovered, AP6_win_x86_SSE_CPU_r1797.exe is splitt up into three threads on my Win XP Pro and because i run the CPU-Usage at 85% (for temperature reasons) the 'main' thread is set to 'Wait:Suspended' for a ~1 sec. every 5-6 sec.
Sometimes this seems to interfering the other threads whitch end up in a 'Wait:Suspended' state from witch they never come back and so the proccesing of the AP-WU stopps :-( .

I found tree methods to start up the stuck WU:
First suspend all Seti-WUs from processing and then start them up again. How ever, works not every time. ???

Second close Boinc competly and start again. This method forces a start of chrunching from the last checkpoint and works every time. (Thanks Sten-Arne for this)

Third is using the ProcessExplorer, locate the 'Wait:Suspended' thread and resume it. As far i can see this works every time and start up the WU at the position it stops :-).

All methods results in a correct and validated AP-WU.

My summery of this, the r1797 version don't like the option 'CPU-Usage'. I crosscecked this with a ~10 hour run on 100% and their was no hanging in sight.
I am back to the 'old' r557-opt because it runs clearly on 85% CPU-Usage and the babysitting of AP-WUs costs to much time.

Hopefully someone can get any benefit from my investigation.

__W__
_______________________________________________________________________________
ID: 1378022 · Report as offensive
Mark Henderson
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Mar 02
Posts: 41
Credit: 3,964,939
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1378045 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 14:21:06 UTC

I have a Nvidia 680 and a 570 in same system. Is it ok to install Cuda 5 option to work with both? It seems to be working ok.
ID: 1378045 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1378057 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 14:49:54 UTC - in response to Message 1378022.  

...
My summery of this, the r1797 version don't like the option 'CPU-Usage'. I crosscecked this with a ~10 hour run on 100% and their was no hanging in sight.
I am back to the 'old' r557-opt because it runs clearly on 85% CPU-Usage and the babysitting of AP-WUs costs to much time.

Hopefully someone can get any benefit from my investigation.

__W__

That's a very clear and plausible bit of analysis - and it should be easily verifiable and repeatable in testing. I'll make sure it gets back to the developer.

In the meantime, you might like to experiment with Fred's TThrottle as an alternative solution for temperature management. That uses a much more fine-grained on-off cycle then BOINC crude whole seconds at a time: it would be interesting to hear what effect this has on the wait-suspended state of the other threads.
ID: 1378057 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1378058 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 14:50:15 UTC - in response to Message 1378045.  

I have a Nvidia 680 and a 570 in same system. Is it ok to install Cuda 5 option to work with both? It seems to be working ok.

Yes.
ID: 1378058 · Report as offensive
Profile Fred E.
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 22 Jul 99
Posts: 768
Credit: 24,140,697
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1378077 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 15:16:54 UTC

There was an important update to the BOINC source code yesterday, which affects all BOINC applications (across all projects, not just us) - especially GPU apps. So it's just possible that we may have to update the installer with another full release, sooner rather than later. If so, that would be an ideal opportunity to deploy whatever solution we come up with.

Is that a caution to avoid new BOINC Betas until the picture clears up? I don't usually run their Betas, but some do.

Kudos to BilBg for finding the cause and cure for my one line app_info.xml file, and for having the patience to show me how to confirm and fix it. I had worked around it but was concerned that some others might encounter this problem. As to why my path had only the NVIDIA string, I think I will blame it on some unknown installer - likely some of the junk my grandson has installed. I spent most of yesterday cleaning out his stuff after a spyware scare, and he's getting a good lecture today. Think if it was a NVIDIA installer, you'd have a lot more people with the problem.
Another Fred
Support SETI@home when you search the Web with GoodSearch or shop online with GoodShop.
ID: 1378077 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1378086 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 15:28:41 UTC - in response to Message 1378077.  

There was an important update to the BOINC source code yesterday, which affects all BOINC applications (across all projects, not just us) - especially GPU apps. So it's just possible that we may have to update the installer with another full release, sooner rather than later. If so, that would be an ideal opportunity to deploy whatever solution we come up with.

Is that a caution to avoid new BOINC Betas until the picture clears up? I don't usually run their Betas, but some do.

No, not a problem with the BOINC Betas - well, no more than the usual quota of problems, anyway.

This is a quite different section of code - the API (Application Programming Interface) - a relatively small but important section which has to be embedded in every science application, like the ones we distribute with the installer. The API handles things like updating the progress %age in BOINC Manager, and responding to BOINC's instructions to suspend and resume.

Kudos to BilBg for finding the cause and cure for my one line app_info.xml file, and for having the patience to show me how to confirm and fix it. I had worked around it but was concerned that some others might encounter this problem. As to why my path had only the NVIDIA string, I think I will blame it on some unknown installer - likely some of the junk my grandson has installed. I spent most of yesterday cleaning out his stuff after a spyware scare, and he's getting a good lecture today. Think if it was a NVIDIA installer, you'd have a lot more people with the problem.

Kudos indeed.
ID: 1378086 · Report as offensive
Juha
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 7 Mar 04
Posts: 388
Credit: 1,857,738
RAC: 0
Finland
Message 1378132 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 16:44:01 UTC - in response to Message 1377905.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2013, 16:49:28 UTC

That looks plausible. On an almost vanilla Windows XP with BOINC-related additions, the path is:

PATH=C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\CUDA\bin

So guess which installer we blame ;P

I'm not quite sure how to read that and then there's that smiley too. Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing BOINC or Lunatics installer of anything.

Did you take that from Command Prompt or from the GUI thingy? It's expanded in Command Prompt.

edit: Of course Windows doesn't like the idea of moving installation directory once it's installed so the expanded vs "variable" only matters when speaking of other people's computers.

OK, I've got the message - and many, many thanks for continuing to explore this while I caught my breath after Monday. OK, now we know where the problem lies, I've got two or three possibilities for a workround - I'll let them marinade for a day or two.

%systemroot%\system32\find.exe would be too simple, wouldn't it? Despite the name of the directory it should work on 64-bit Windows too.

The %systemroot% might be a NT thing, whereas Win 9x uses %windir%. I couldn't find any good, authoritative looking source from Microsoft's website that would list what is supported and where.
ID: 1378132 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1378167 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 17:28:45 UTC - in response to Message 1378132.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2013, 17:33:10 UTC

That looks plausible. On an almost vanilla Windows XP with BOINC-related additions, the path is:

PATH=C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\CUDA\bin

So guess which installer we blame ;P

I'm not quite sure how to read that and then there's that smiley too. Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing BOINC or Lunatics installer of anything.

Did you take that from Command Prompt or from the GUI thingy? It's expanded in Command Prompt.

I was blaming NVidia at the time, but I took it from the command prompt and I wasn't aware that it might have been expanded on display - in which case, I withdraw the allegation until I can find that GUI thingy.

[Edit - the GUI thingy says "C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common;%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\CUDA\bin" - panic over. Sorry]

We don't have to worry about Win 9x in this context - we have a separate and simpler installer for that (not yet updated for v7 - that will come later when and if we're convinced that the need still exists).

I have WinXP thru Win7/64 hosts available for testing here, so I can try the %systemroot% approach with a deliberately broken path statement - that would indeed be the simplest solution.
ID: 1378167 · Report as offensive
__W__
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Mar 09
Posts: 116
Credit: 5,943,642
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1378187 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 18:05:53 UTC - in response to Message 1378057.  

That's a very clear and plausible bit of analysis - and it should be easily verifiable and repeatable in testing. I'll make sure it gets back to the developer.

In the meantime, you might like to experiment with Fred's TThrottle as an alternative solution for temperature management.
Thank you Richard.
I know Freds TThrottle because i am using his BioncTasks, but until now there was no need to use it ;-) and for "normal" temperature monitoring i use Core Temp.

If i find some time, i will have a deeper look a TThrottle over the weekend.

__W__

_______________________________________________________________________________
ID: 1378187 · Report as offensive
Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 3720
Credit: 9,385,827
RAC: 0
Bulgaria
Message 1378208 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 18:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 1378167.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2013, 18:48:28 UTC

I have WinXP thru Win7/64 hosts available for testing here, so I can try the %systemroot% approach with a deliberately broken path statement - that would indeed be the simplest solution.

Of course first check:

Set FindExe=%SystemRoot%\system32\find.exe

IF [NOT] EXIST %FindExe% .....

for %%s in (*.aistub) do echo %%s & type %%s | %FindExe% /v "app_info" >> app_info.xml


(I think there is a way/command to search a file in all Path= directories (to see if find.exe is somewhere in the Path=) but I don't remember it now)

If we are paranoid and think that someone will name the Windows directory with spaces (e.g. C:\W i n d o w s) (and how Windows directory is named on German, China, etc. versions of Windows?)
probably we need to use "":
Set FindExe="%SystemRoot%\system32\find.exe"


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
ID: 1378208 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6325
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1378232 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 19:18:12 UTC - in response to Message 1378187.  

That's a very clear and plausible bit of analysis - and it should be easily verifiable and repeatable in testing. I'll make sure it gets back to the developer.

In the meantime, you might like to experiment with Fred's TThrottle as an alternative solution for temperature management.
Thank you Richard.
I know Freds TThrottle because i am using his BioncTasks, but until now there was no need to use it ;-) and for "normal" temperature monitoring i use Core Temp.

If i find some time, i will have a deeper look a TThrottle over the weekend.

__W__

TThrottle should be the best 4th path from 3 you listed earlier. It will suspend and resume app as it should. BOINC API bug makes BOINC's own method unreliable.
And I'm not sure that last fix in BOINC API fixes this issue too. Their attention was on critical section mostly and AP CPU doesn't make use of critical section at all. BTW, worth to report your observations on BOINC dev or alpha mail list.
SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.
ID: 1378232 · Report as offensive
Kafo

Send message
Joined: 17 Dec 00
Posts: 19
Credit: 15,432,367
RAC: 18
Canada
Message 1378260 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 20:07:52 UTC - in response to Message 1377448.  

Attention those failing to getting the Brook app to run. I've posted a revised aistub here. Please give it a try.
We can't update the installer until we've consulted with Eric on this matter (there's a build in beta).

I have updated my app-info file with the supplied xml - then had to wait to actually get a work unit. The task has started running without trashing the work unit immediately. I will let you know if it completes successfully.

Thanks for all you work
ID: 1378260 · Report as offensive
Profile Link
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 03
Posts: 834
Credit: 1,807,369
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1378289 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 21:58:28 UTC - in response to Message 1378187.  

If i find some time, i will have a deeper look a TThrottle over the weekend.

Maybe instead of a deeper look at one more workaround you should have a deeper look at the actual issue: your system cooling. Properly build computers should run 24/7@100% without any temperature issues.

Just a thought.
ID: 1378289 · Report as offensive
Profile Mike Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 01
Posts: 34253
Credit: 79,922,639
RAC: 80
Germany
Message 1378292 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 22:01:50 UTC - in response to Message 1378289.  

If i find some time, i will have a deeper look a TThrottle over the weekend.

Maybe instead of a deeper look at one more workaround you should have a deeper look at the actual issue: your system cooling. Properly build computers should run 24/7@100% without any temperature issues.

Just a thought.


Except laptops/notebooks etc.
Otherwise i`d agree.



With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
ID: 1378292 · Report as offensive
Profile Link
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 03
Posts: 834
Credit: 1,807,369
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 1378298 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 22:10:32 UTC - in response to Message 1378292.  

If i find some time, i will have a deeper look a TThrottle over the weekend.

Maybe instead of a deeper look at one more workaround you should have a deeper look at the actual issue: your system cooling. Properly build computers should run 24/7@100% without any temperature issues.

Just a thought.


Except laptops/notebooks etc.
Otherwise i`d agree.

Those are also pretty much never "properly build". I also had to modify the case on my laptop where the air gets in and out and set the CPU voltage properly (it was set over 300mV higher than this particular CPU needs). Result was 25°C less on the CPU and acceptable noise level. Now it crunches SETI 24/7 since years without any issues.
ID: 1378298 · Report as offensive
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 13720
Credit: 208,696,464
RAC: 304
Australia
Message 1378299 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 22:13:38 UTC - in response to Message 1378292.  

If i find some time, i will have a deeper look a TThrottle over the weekend.

Maybe instead of a deeper look at one more workaround you should have a deeper look at the actual issue: your system cooling. Properly build computers should run 24/7@100% without any temperature issues.

Just a thought.


Except laptops/notebooks etc.
Otherwise i`d agree.

High end laptops should be able run run 100% load for extended periods- that's the whole point have having such a beast.
But certainly the current mid-range to low end laptops, and all notebooks/ultra books are very much thermally limited. Even the highend ones though capable of considerable work are only designed to do so for very short periods of time.
Being small & looking pretty comes with significant thermal limitations.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1378299 · Report as offensive
kittyman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 51468
Credit: 1,018,363,574
RAC: 1,004
United States
Message 1378324 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 23:00:37 UTC

The kitties need help, please.
I have 3 rigs throwing wobblies with the Lunatics installed GPU AP app.

How can I fix this?
I have made no changes to the auto installed defaults, other than changing my count to .5 in all instances in the app_info file.

Here is one error task from each rig.....

Host 2353446
Host 2645052
Host 3480243

Meow?
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

ID: 1378324 · Report as offensive
Profile Mike Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 01
Posts: 34253
Credit: 79,922,639
RAC: 80
Germany
Message 1378326 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 23:03:43 UTC

Please try what i suggested already.



With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
ID: 1378326 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 . . . 17 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : Lunatics Windows Installer v0.41 Release Notes


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.