English is really difficult to learn

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Profile tullio
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Message 1383423 - Posted: 21 Jun 2013, 17:25:20 UTC - in response to Message 1383409.  


Didn't the Hubble telescope have a similar problem?

Gruß,
Gundolf

No, AFAIK it was an optics problem. They had run a simulation but they failed to do a very simple experiment involving a knife and a candle and the focus was not where it should have been. But they repaired it with a Shuttle mission.
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Message 1383454 - Posted: 21 Jun 2013, 18:54:53 UTC - in response to Message 1383449.  

Take a look at http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter4/table8.html . The knot is listed under "Non-SI units accepted for use with the SI", and is defined in terms of m/sec. Nothing to do (now anyway) with any miles.

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Message 1405760 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 2:07:07 UTC

Whom
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Message 1405890 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 10:40:59 UTC - in response to Message 1405882.  

an hotel.

Is that not the same as 'common usage' as in
"did you see the snow man," instead of saying
"saw you the snowman?"
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Message 1405950 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 13:31:57 UTC

It's the same in French when to use le, la or l' or German with der, die, das, dem, dessen, deren... Tough but doable...
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Message 1405967 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 14:34:38 UTC - in response to Message 1405882.  

I still would stay in a hotel than an hotel.


Well the rule as I learned it, is when it starts with a vowel sound, you have to use 'an' - hotel as I pronounce it starts with a distinctive 'h' sound so it's 'a hotel'. There are examples of words that are written with a letter in front of the vowel that isn't pronounced, making it 'an'.
I can only think of 'NVidia' atm - pronounced ENVidia - which is debatable :D
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Message 1405986 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 15:06:06 UTC - in response to Message 1405967.  

I still would stay in a hotel than an hotel.


Well the rule as I learned it, is when it starts with a vowel sound, you have to use 'an' - hotel as I pronounce it starts with a distinctive 'h' sound so it's 'a hotel'. There are examples of words that are written with a letter in front of the vowel that isn't pronounced, making it 'an'.
I can only think of 'NVidia' atm - pronounced ENVidia - which is debatable :D

Learned people tend to use 'an' with 'history' (and various suffixed versions of it). I have always surmised (but don't really know) that this practice comes from Cockneys dropping the 'h' sound from the beginning of words and then using 'an' to sound right.

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Message 1406083 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 18:35:40 UTC - in response to Message 1405967.  
Last modified: 21 Aug 2013, 18:40:05 UTC

I can only think of 'NVidia' atm - pronounced ENVidia - which is debatable :D

What's about "an hour later"? ;-)

Gruß
Gundolf
[edit]or the other way around: a European example[/edit]
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Message 1406362 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 9:21:53 UTC - in response to Message 1406091.  

"an" before a word beginning with "h" is possible only under the following circumstances:

1) The "h" is silent; OR
2) The "h" is sounded, AND the word is polysyllabic, AND the first syllable of the word is unstressed, AND the next letter after "h" is "i" or "y", pronounced as in "him".

In Group 1 you have "an heir" and "an honest man".
In Group 2 you have "an historical novel" and "an hysterical reaction".

And then you have all the others, which belong to neither group, like "a history book" and "a hotel" and "a horrific experience" and "a hammer" and "a humanitarian effort" and "a harpoon".



I can see why learning English is "a horrific experience".
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Message 1406399 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 11:09:24 UTC

The purpose of grammar is to make the meaning of a sentence clear.

If, for instance, i was to write that my hair needs cutting badly, what do i mean? Do i want a haircut urgently, or a terrible haircut?

It's even more confusing when words have their meaning changed. Being from the north, this lead to much confusion upon meeting some londoners who described things as 'sick', which when i was growing up was an excuse to stay off school not a compliment.

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Message 1406408 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 11:40:24 UTC - in response to Message 1406403.  

Judging by your avatar I would say that it both has been and needs to be ;-)))))

Don't be tempted to confuse regional sayings with universal UK English. Being sick means to be ill or indisposed. A sick comment is something said which is non pc.


At least i still have some.

This was/is a third meaning, whereby something good would be described as 'sick'.
Eg: "Aw man, that's a sick phone!"

Makes no sense to me either.
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Message 1406433 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 12:55:45 UTC

With out convention there would be
problems, some still get all up on
GBS for not using contractions.
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Message 1406473 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 14:22:02 UTC - in response to Message 1406379.  

I can see why learning English is "a horrific experience".

This silly business of a and an hotel is because some twit got it wrong many years ago and the establishment won't admit it. Then there is this other silly nonsense of i before e except after c. So we still have fallacies, vacancies, science, conscience, prescience, society, and over 500 other cie words

Then the split infinitive as in Star Trek's "To boldly go ...." for example. Where to 99% of people, to go boldly, or to boldly go, means exactly the same thing anyway, so why the fuss? The who and whom one is rather more easier, sometimes who sounds better then whom and vice versa.

The simple trick is to ignore all the so called experts and official guides and tomes. If it looks right, and sounds right, then it likely is right. There is far too much stuffiness about correct English grammar these days. We don't need to know about subjective clauses and adverbial phrases, that was 20C English teaching for the sake of it. But having said all that, we don't want to degenerate into the current under 21's pidgin English that you hear all the time on the streets. There has to be a sensible middle way.

Now I'm trying to decide whether you're baiting us grammar cops.

"The who and whom one is rather more easier, sometimes who sounds better then whom and vice versa." I just posted a mini-rant on Facebook last night about "more _____er." However, if you want to claim "better then" to be a typo, I might believe you. Ditto for Simon's "lead" that seems like it should be "led."

Another of my biggest (and newest) pet peeves is "could/should/would of," which, thankfully, no one has used here (at least lately).


David
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Message 1406496 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 15:07:10 UTC - in response to Message 1406473.  

Another of my biggest (and newest) pet peeves is "could/should/would of," which, thankfully, no one has used here (at least lately).


A song for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bug-hnPxFaY

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Message 1406629 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 19:53:01 UTC - in response to Message 1406612.  

This was/is a third meaning, whereby something good would be described as 'sick'. Eg: "Aw man, that's a sick phone!"

Yes I have heard that used in the reverse sense, but it's nothing more than street slang, like "it's well good 'innit".

This was/is a third meaning

This is a third meaning e.g.
There was a third meaning e.g.

Just sounds better to me. No doubt there is some obscure reason why not.

Now I'm trying to decide whether you're baiting us grammar cops.

Moi? I am more strict upon spelling then grammar. Considering most people around here have English as their first language, the general level of spelling is atrocious. I am also crusading against dictatorial, old fashioned, grammatical laws that no-one understands anyway. Whatever happened to common sense?

The could/should/would situation is quite easy.

I wish I could give up smoking
I really should give up smoking
My wife wishes I would give up smoking.

Why did you come to the meeting? It didn't need both of us. You should have known that I would be there. ~ How could I have known you'd be there? I haven't spoken to you for a fortnight! ~ If I'd known you were intending to go, I certainly wouldn't have gone!

All the above is apparently to do with something called the perfect and imperfect infinitive and participles. Well exactly, quite obvious really when you think about it .....

See what I mean? There is no doubt a technical grammatical explanation for all of this stuff which nobody wants to know about, except probably crusty Oxbridge professors. If it looks right, and sounds right, then with correct spelling, it likely is right.

My problem is with people who use "of" when they should use "have". To borrow from your examples, such irritating persons would say/write "How could I of known you'd be there? ... I certainly wouldn't of gone." This most likely comes from the contraction "would've" sounding like "would of." No excuse, AFAIAC.

David
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Message 1406658 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 20:17:23 UTC - in response to Message 1406612.  

Whatever happened to common sense?


It is not common, and mostly does not make sense.
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Message 1406669 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 20:27:27 UTC - in response to Message 1406658.  

Whatever happened to common sense?


It is not common, and mostly does not make sense.

Well said.

David
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Message 1406729 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 3:34:09 UTC - in response to Message 1366831.  

And here I'm of French descent and I did not understand much of that.

Someone is a devious neanderthal? Don't explain, it is just My lack of French language skills.

As well as am I (of Canadian French descent) and I can only understand/speak a few words/phrases, but nowhere near enough to converse with someone (Canadian or Parisian French).
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Message 1406736 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 3:54:25 UTC - in response to Message 1406729.  

converse with someone (Canadian or Parisian French).

____________

Not to worry, They don't communicate
well with each other any way.
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Message 1406846 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 11:20:25 UTC - in response to Message 1406672.  
Last modified: 23 Aug 2013, 11:21:55 UTC

You care if you have to do specification writing.

But here, couldn't give a damn as long as what is written makes sense and doesn't confuse or upset people.
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