An argument for the existence of God: Second Pass...


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BarryAZ
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Message 1252462 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 3:09:52 UTC - in response to Message 1252452.

Fair enough there -- there are a number of observant Jews who are astrophysicists. They make that work by accepting variable length days as part of their belief system. Then again, they (like many Jews) look at the Tenach as very much subject to interpretation -- multiple interpretations for that matter.


How long is a day for God?


The Bible was written of men, for men. Would they not have used the same units for "days" that men understood?

If the term "days" is up for interpretation, how much more of the Bible is up for interpretation?...

Who decides what's solid truth in the Bible, and what's up for interpretation?

bobby
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Message 1252466 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 3:24:38 UTC - in response to Message 1252459.
Last modified: 28 Jun 2012, 3:26:31 UTC

And yes, John knew.......
He knew.
Imagine....he DID.


Indeed he did:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace


Seems to me these are not the words of a believer.
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1252477 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 3:53:36 UTC - in response to Message 1252452.
Last modified: 28 Jun 2012, 3:54:37 UTC

How long is a day for God?


The Bible was written of men, for men. Would they not have used the same units for "days" that men understood?

If the term "days" is up for interpretation, how much more of the Bible is up for interpretation?...

Who decides what's solid truth in the Bible, and what's up for interpretation?


I have already spoken about Allegories and what think to be an Allegory in the Bible and what is not.

At one time billions of years ago a day was as short as 18 hours. Curie point tells us this. So on this rock a day was shorter, then, in time, is will grow longer. I ask..."How long is a day for God?"

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Message 1252482 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:01:12 UTC

so the earth is much much older than the moon and stars according to the biblical fairy tales?

After all, the book clearly tells us the earth was made before the moon and the stars....
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Message 1252492 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:17:53 UTC - in response to Message 1252466.

And yes, John knew.......
He knew.
Imagine....he DID.


Indeed he did:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace


Seems to me these are not the words of a believer.

They were, my friend.

A true believer.

In no religion, no borders, no crosses, no politicians, in other words, nothing to die for other than old age.

A believer in life for life's sake, not for some old man's cross on an overpaid grave because 'we' believed in a cause like 'Nam.

I know what I speak of, Bobby.

You can fool some of us all the time, and......
Well, you know how the saying goes.....
You can't.

God loves even you, who deny to have an iota of what he is about.

And you do.......
I KNOW you do.

Deny him if you must to save your pride, but I know in your heart what you shall admit.

It is not required to gain His entrance, in case you are interested.
If you are not, the doors are still open to you.
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Message 1252494 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:21:00 UTC - in response to Message 1252482.

so the earth is much much older than the moon and stars according to the biblical fairy tales?

After all, the book clearly tells us the earth was made before the moon and the stars....


Yep! another imponderable! He/She made the earth in 6 days & rested on the 7th. However, during those 6 days, he/she said "let there be light" & wonder of wonders, there was the universe....hmmmn...took six days to create the earth, but only seconds for the universe?

Funny sort of god here don't you think?
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Message 1252495 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:23:18 UTC - in response to Message 1252494.

so the earth is much much older than the moon and stars according to the biblical fairy tales?

After all, the book clearly tells us the earth was made before the moon and the stars....


Yep! another imponderable! He/She made the earth in 6 days & rested on the 7th. However, during those 6 days, he/she said "let there be light" & wonder of wonders, there was the universe....hmmmn...took six days to create the earth, but only seconds for the universe?

Funny sort of god here don't you think?

Yeah, if you try to take the bible literally, it is a very puzzling story.

I do not read the bible much....I just confer with the Lord and he answers me every day.
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Message 1252498 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:29:33 UTC - in response to Message 1252495.

Yes, there is a lot to be said for beliefs. Throughtout my postings, & I hope I got my views across, is that religion should be left to the individual & not forced down one's throat by any organisation, be they political/religious/other.

I also believe that no individual should be ridiculed for their beliefs, as the ones doing the ridiculing are homo inferiors rather than homo sapiens.
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Message 1252517 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 5:26:12 UTC

To no one in particular.............at all.

But,

There is a very old saying about arguing with a pig.

As the story goes, it does not pay to do so.

It only wastes your breath and annoys the pig.

So, I end my argument with the piggys.

It has annoyed me, and apparently wasted the bandwidth of said pig.

Either way, it is no win, and no judgement.
Have it your way, I want lettuce and onions...maybe pickles.

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Message 1252585 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 9:26:56 UTC

Nice one Mark, can't argue with that logic! Enjoy the salad :-)

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Message 1252631 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 13:48:02 UTC

In the first pass I.D. claimed that 90% of people believe in God. msg 1240328

This seems to disagree Washington Post, Why are Millennials leaving the church?

The 2012 Millennial Values Survey, conducted jointly by Public Religion Research Institute and Georgetown University’s Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs, shows that college-age Millennials (ages 18-24) are more likely than the general population to be religiously unaffiliated (25 percent vs. 19 percent in the general population). Moreover, they report significant movement from the religious affiliation of their childhood: Only 11 percent of Millennials were raised religiously unaffiliated, but one-quarter (25 percent) identify as religiously unaffiliated today, an increase of 14 points.


If you want to disagree with this then provide the evidence.

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Message 1252989 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 0:18:27 UTC
Last modified: 29 Jun 2012, 0:23:52 UTC

The Master of the fabric of spacetime has no need of our linear time. He stands outsdie of it. After all He Created it. Over time, we have become more aware of how time works. When Moses wrote the first chapters of the Bible man was much younger then we are now. Over that time, we have a much better understanding of what time is. It's something that we cannot ignor or escape, we grow old and die. But, for God, time has no meaning as we understand time. He is ageless, timeless, this is how we have come to understand God. Such a Being stands outside of our lineartime scale.

In the book Evolution from Space, astronomers Sir Fred Hoyle and Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe calculated that the odds of randomly producing the required enzymes for a simple living cell were 1 in 1040,000. Since the number of atoms in the known universe would be only 1080, they argued that even a whole universe full of "primordial soup" wouldn't stand a chance or randomly producing a simple cell [that really isn't that simple]. Hoyle also likened the random appearance of the simplest cell to the chance that "a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein." So, at the very start of life we seem to have a problem that cannot be overcome by chance. It would seem that a guiding Hand is needed right at the start of life itself.

But, here we are now with life. We are born, we live, we die. The odds of just a single cell starting out by chance precludes a random happening of ourselves, with our trillions of cells and the advantage if intelligence over all other creatures living on this rock. The theory of evolution has no-thing to do with Intelligent Design. Darwin based his theory upon random mutations and the survival of the fittest; a genetic mutation occurs, and if it is a benefit the organism prospers. If the mutation is in any way harmful, the organism struggles and the mutation dies out along with the organism. It sounds like a GREAT theory for explaining how small changes occur, and I agree with it; to gradually adapt to changing conditions nature tosses at it. But it fails utterly to address how complex bio systems and structures form [heart, mind, eyes, etc, etc, etc] or how life began in the first place. Mutations are most always associated with real bad things like cancer and radiation sickness, not with intelligence or positive evolution. They introduce chaos into a system; not order. Random mutations clearly did not give rise to human beings. Chaos and order might live right next to each other, but, one is not an advantage for the other.

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Message 1253013 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 1:40:25 UTC - in response to Message 1252989.

Picking and choosing our evidence we see, so that it matches our arguement again, I see.

Think Hoyle is an odd choice, rejected the Big Bang theory, the term he "invented", which you now support. Well you did yesterday.

Also Hoyle was an aethist, in fact an anti-thesist, so would not have supported your beliefs.

After his resignation from Cambridge he had some other controversial ideas, along with his steady state theorem, like the correlation of flu epidemics with the sun-spot cycle.

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Message 1253017 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 1:50:06 UTC - in response to Message 1252989.

Would you say the odds of someone being named Chandra Wickramasinghe are 22^26 which is one in eight followed by 34 zeros .

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Message 1253021 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 2:02:25 UTC

I didn't see a "?" so Im not obligated to answer.

Putting one there now is not a option. Nor is rewording the same question later...

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Message 1253063 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 4:33:44 UTC - in response to Message 1253021.

Um, Yas

The Odds of winning the lottery Powerball Jackpot are about 1 in 200 million. Yet someone manages to win every few weeks.

So how many tries were there to start the molecules necessary for life?

BarryAZ
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Message 1253065 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 4:50:05 UTC - in response to Message 1253021.

ID, actually, you are never obligated to answer questions whether they are directed to you or not -- this is a good thing.

Then again, if you take folks to tasks for syntax, a lack of grammatical marks, or spelling, you might find that one can come around to you.

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Message 1253273 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 17:39:23 UTC - in response to Message 1253063.
Last modified: 29 Jun 2012, 17:46:12 UTC

Um, Yas

The Odds of winning the lottery Powerball Jackpot are about 1 in 200 million. Yet someone manages to win every few weeks.

So how many tries were there to start the molecules necessary for life?

Ummmm as far as I know--one, we are here.

Would 200 million be in the realm of Hyer-reals? If not---Red Herring and Im a fresh water 'Bass' man myself...

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Message 1253275 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 17:41:33 UTC - in response to Message 1253065.

ID, actually, you are never obligated to answer questions whether they are directed to you or not -- this is a good thing.

Then again, if you take folks to tasks for syntax, a lack of grammatical marks, or spelling, you might find that one can come around to you.


Thank you. You appear to be able to understand me. Thats all that is needed.

Next time I write a long one I'll have my wife proof read for me. Deal?

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Message 1253379 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 20:56:53 UTC - in response to Message 1253017.

Would you say the odds of someone being named Chandra Wickramasinghe are 22^26 which is one in eight followed by 34 zeros .

quit posting my name ; )
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