Can we really trust the software we use?


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Profile Julie
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Message 1241320 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 21:10:58 UTC - in response to Message 1241318.

That sounds suspiciously like you had an original XP installation - they were problematic to install.

With the release of XP SP1, some of those issues were resolved.

yep, that it was, but I didn't wait for sp1, reformatting fixed my problems lol
until it popped it's gasket and kinda melted it's power supply.

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Message 1241324 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 21:16:29 UTC - in response to Message 1241315.

no drivers to run the cd rom lol


That would have to be a controller problem then. Every version of Windows back to Win95 had drivers built into the kernel for CD-ROM drives. DVD-ROM suuport was added in Windows 98SE. Likely whatever controller you were using for the CD-ROM wasn't recognized by Windows. If it was plugged directly into the motherboard, then that would be the motherboard's chipset drivers.

Nero was used to run the cd rom. Found out from Microsplat that they were still working drivers because some companies hadn't finished their driver updates.
That is my personal reason for hating xp.


Since Nero is software-only, and Nero interfaces directly with the kernel's driver, that suggests that the problem was elsewhere.

I suppose it doesn't matter now, but what lead you to believe that the CD-ROM drive wasn't working if Nero could use it? When you say it didn't work, could Windows still read the contents of a disc but you couldn't do something else?

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Message 1241325 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 21:18:17 UTC - in response to Message 1241320.
Last modified: 4 Jun 2012, 21:19:48 UTC

That sounds suspiciously like you had an original XP installation - they were problematic to install.

With the release of XP SP1, some of those issues were resolved.

yep, that it was, but I didn't wait for sp1, reformatting fixed my problems lol
until it popped it's gasket and kinda melted it's power supply.


Ah, so then it was a controller problem! Windows XP didn't have drivers for the then new SATA controllers (up to that point, everything was PATA).

Which leads me back to: the OS's drivers are only as current as when it was compiled. Windows XP SP1 added limited support for SATA drives, SP2 & SP3 were much better.

Certainly can't fault XP for that since the code writers cannot possibly guarantee compatibility with a future standard.

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Message 1241381 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 22:39:47 UTC - in response to Message 1241325.

true, but they could have warned us xD

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Message 1241385 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 22:47:46 UTC - in response to Message 1241381.

true, but they could have warned us xD


They've made up for that mistake. Now they're calling them Previews... :)
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Message 1241389 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 22:52:06 UTC - in response to Message 1241381.

true, but they could have warned us xD


In the same way that fortune tellers forewarn people about pending events?


I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, but anyone who keeps up with Windows news or the Tech industry in general knew about the OSes limitations. Should the average user have known about it? Depends on how much research they do, like with things in life (not just computers).

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Message 1241396 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 22:59:00 UTC - in response to Message 1241389.

That's true. However, most home users want their computers to just boot up & go. Many just don't want to "look under the hood & understand how they work".
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Message 1241399 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 23:03:14 UTC

At that point in time all I knew about computers was how to turn it on and open up the browser or play Diablo 2 LOD lol

I would have definitely qualified as a 'turn the key n go' kind of person.
Course that was going on 8.5 years ago too. Didn't have anyone around me that really knew much about computers.

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Message 1241411 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 23:23:33 UTC - in response to Message 1241396.
Last modified: 4 Jun 2012, 23:24:41 UTC

That's true. However, most home users want their computers to just boot up & go. Many just don't want to "look under the hood & understand how they work".


Agreed, but any engineer will tell you that the world doesn't really work that way. Progress is being made to make it "seem" that way, but it takes a lot of work and trial and error.

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Message 1241458 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 0:33:55 UTC - in response to Message 1241389.

true, but they could have warned us xD


In the same way that fortune tellers forewarn people about pending events?


I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, but anyone who keeps up with Windows news or the Tech industry in general knew about the OSes limitations. Should the average user have known about it? Depends on how much research they do, like with things in life (not just computers).

The average user wants an appliance. They refuse to know more. Perhaps why I think the average user should look at Apple. They build appliances. And appliances need to be closed systems.

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Message 1241459 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 0:37:24 UTC - in response to Message 1241458.

The average user wants an appliance. They refuse to know more. Perhaps why I think the average user should look at Apple. They build appliances. And appliances need to be closed systems.



Apple knew that which is why they're the biggest company. Microsoft has come late to the table & attemting to do the same with Win 8.

Personally, I can't see them getting anywhere near Apple.
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Message 1241461 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 0:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 1241458.

true, but they could have warned us xD


In the same way that fortune tellers forewarn people about pending events?


I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, but anyone who keeps up with Windows news or the Tech industry in general knew about the OSes limitations. Should the average user have known about it? Depends on how much research they do, like with things in life (not just computers).

The average user wants an appliance. They refuse to know more. Perhaps why I think the average user should look at Apple. They build appliances. And appliances need to be closed systems.


Agreed, just like the average driver just wants to drive the car. Though Apple has had their share of goofs and gaffs.

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Message 1241466 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 0:50:13 UTC - in response to Message 1241461.
Last modified: 5 Jun 2012, 0:50:34 UTC

lol my firt computer was a apple.
Mac Performa 575.
I was so proud that I could get a computer.
Still can't believe I paid like $2,300 for it.
The year after I got it, it went obsolete and a year and a half after I got it?
It melted. Smoke started puffing out of it and I tossed it in a snow bank lol
I was so mad...

I have a huge dislike of apple computers.
Closest I will go to that company is ipod touches I bought on eBay :)
I would rather save up for a galaxy tab 2 than get an over priced ipad.
With samsung, I don't have to buy talk time with support. rofl

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Message 1241632 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 10:18:09 UTC

The truth is that much of the "domestic/commercial" software we rely on is of a fairly low standard.

Freeware and trialware are tasters for the full product, and the writers also rely on their website advertising for income to offset the cost of producing it. They are loss leaders and as such are likely written accordingly. Of course cheap software also is unlikely to be written to a high standard in the first place.

It is expensive to produce drivers for new O/S and companies save money by not producing them for hardware much more than 5 years old. I have a great scanner which I can't use with Win 7 as no-one has written a driver for it. That also encourages people to buy new hardware as well, so the hardware & software people are all in cahoots with each other. Also some O/S's like Millennium and Vista did not have a popular take-up, so money spent writing divers across the board never paid off. That is why Win 7 stuff is scarce and the same will happen to Win 8.

Most up-market antivirus programs use heuristic analysis when scanning for problems. If they find a file that "looks" like a virus, and is exhibiting "virus like" behaviour, and it is not listed in their table of known viruses, then they err on the side of safety, and assume that it is a virus. If the end user knows different, then they can instruct the virus scanner to ignore that file in future.

But that is just the easy bit. Some sophisticated viruses are clever enough to put out false signatures masking what they are actually doing being the scenes. But perhaps the most pernicious are keyloggers, they work quietly in the background recording and transmitting visited websites, logins, and passwords which get sent to an anonymous server in Eastern Europe somewhere. They don't look like viruses and don't behave like one, but can often do the most damage.

The only real answer has always been to use a top end professional anti-virus product, keep it up to date, and use your computer sensibly i.e. don't visit dodgy websites and don't download unknown files. This includes opening emails from people you don't know, if its that important they'll contact you some other way.

Also it's a lack of end user savvy that is the biggest problem. Most new machines come with a 3 month trial version of Norton software (currently 360) and I have found many rigs where that expired over a year previously. Either they simply didn't realise it or didn't want to pay for it. Whatever, using 12 month old antivirus software is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!

And finally my pet beef. AVG Free and Avast! Free, are good little programs that are better than nothing, but they deliberately design their websites to make it difficult to download the free versions. You are constantly presented with large coloured boxes telling you to click here to download, and when you do you find you have installed a trial of the paid for version! I suppose you can't blame them but it is irritating nevertheless.

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Message 1241671 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 12:34:25 UTC

^1

I agree Chris, I tryed for 20 minutes to get the free version. I gave up and just renewed the AV i was using.
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Message 1241673 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 12:52:09 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jun 2012, 12:55:39 UTC

Get Placebo AV. Problem solved :-)

DOXdesk wrote:
Today's AV is a dead loss. But you can't simply not install any, or everyone will complain. That's where PlaceboAV comes in! It's the fantasic anti-virus solution that's super-fast and absolutely reliable... because it does nothing at all.
PlaceboAV - Ultimate anti-virus solution!! Protect your PC! Just not very much. Download now, FREE!

Yes, new from DOXdesk, PlaceboAV is just as effective as leading anti-virus software — that is, completely ineffective — whilst having no negative impact on system performance, and never bugging you with extraneous errors.

Get the full performance out of your computer, in total peace of mind because there's a little icon in your system tray so you must be safe. And if you're worried that your protection isn't up to date, open the program window, and simply click the Update button for all the latest definitions!

(NB. Since there are no definitions, the Update function does not actually bother to contact the definitions server, and just pretends to load updates. This is more efficient on network bandwidth. And also there is no definitions server.)

Download PlaceboAV now! An unbelievable feature-set packed into just 56KB of executable*! Lordy, it's a miracle! And it's free!

And! As Well! Purchase PlaceboAV Plus Pro now! It's got all the great features of PlaceboAV Free edition, plus you can pay $30 a year for it! Awesome!

DOXdesk is not responsible for any viruses you get whilst using PlaceboAV under the impression it is actually doing something. Well, we probably are responsible, but we're not going to do anything about it and you'll not get a penny out of us. Go away now.


PlaceboAV download
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Profile Chris SProject donor
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Message 1241682 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 13:15:44 UTC

Hehehe

Pops up as malware. Nice one Bobby. Who's side are you on?

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Message 1241699 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 13:47:07 UTC - in response to Message 1241671.

^1

I agree Chris, I tryed for 20 minutes to get the free version. I gave up and just renewed the AV i was using.


Not sure of Avast but AVG started doing that since v9. Since then I always use CNET, that way don't get the irritating search.
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Message 1241721 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 14:43:46 UTC - in response to Message 1241682.

Hehehe

Pops up as malware. Nice one Bobby. Who's side are you on?



Sorry about that, the first link told the story:

dedoimedo wrote:
All right. So let me show you this thing. Head over to doxdesk.com and grab the executable. Now, be warned! It is flagged as riskware if you run it against a cocktail scanner like Jotti or VirusTotal. What this means is that anti-virus companies deny liability by marking the product potentially bad. What this also means is that if you're not a skilled user capable of discerning real malware from a joke, by using debuggers, network sniffers and whatnot, then you should not be running this program in the first place.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...


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Message 1241801 - Posted: 5 Jun 2012, 21:27:16 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 14:14:27 UTC

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