Yes, Gary.

Absolutely not bobby.

Id rather not waste to many words. [smile]

Yes, Gary.

Absolutely not bobby.

Id rather not waste to many words. [smile]

Why change now?

If the liquid helium below your feet is Linde's how is this not "in a lab"?

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Yes, Gary.

Absolutely not bobby.

Id rather not waste to many words. [smile]

Why change now?

If the liquid helium below your feet is Linde's how is this not "in a lab"?

[smile] Is it flowing uphill?

Do we find liquid helium flowing uphill in nature anyplace other then the lab?

When the first H-Bomb went off it was denoted by two gamma bursts. These two burst are also seen in nature, over and over again.

Other then the lab do we find liquid helium flowing uphill?

Yes, Gary.

Absolutely not bobby.

Id rather not waste to many words. [smile]

Why change now?

If the liquid helium below your feet is Linde's how is this not "in a lab"?

[smile] Is it flowing uphill?

Do we find liquid helium flowing uphill in nature anyplace other then the lab?

When the first H-Bomb went off it was denoted by two gamma bursts. These two burst are also seen in nature, over and over again.

Other then the lab do we find liquid helium flowing uphill?

Find a cold enough hill and you'll find liquid helium flow up it. Currently the only places that are cold enough are environments that humans have created. That humans have created them makes them no less natural than anything else in the universe.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Yes, Gary.

Absolutely not bobby.

Id rather not waste to many words. [smile]

Why change now?

If the liquid helium below your feet is Linde's how is this not "in a lab"?

[smile] Is it flowing uphill?

Do we find liquid helium flowing uphill in nature anyplace other then[sic] the lab?

When the first H-Bomb went off it was denoted by two gamma bursts. These two burst are also seen in nature, over and over again.

Other then[sic] the lab do we find liquid helium flowing uphill?

Why yes we do find it flowing uphill, everywhere it occurs where there is an uphill for it to flow.

---

Intellectually-dishonest arguments!

If it doesn't happen in nature it does not explain nature.

Nothing wrong with my critical thinking.

Intellectually-dishonest arguments!

If it doesn't happen in nature it does not explain nature.

Nothing wrong with my critical thinking.

#17, Nature. Helium occurs in nature. Nature is the universe. The lab is in the universe. Ergo, liquid helium flowing uphill occurs in nature.

If you are going to exclude the lab from the universe, you have got a lot of convincing to do. And remember for that convincing, God made everything the lab is constructed of and all the intelligence that is applied in the actions at the lab. Good luck.

---

Intellectually-dishonest arguments!

If it doesn't happen in nature it does not explain nature.

Nothing wrong with my critical thinking.

That link in my opinion describes ID to a tee, he frequently does the actions described in:

2. Changing the subject:

4. Citing irrelevant facts or logic:

5. False premise

6. Hearsay

7. Unqualified expert opinion:

need I go further.

Im not excluding the lab from the universe, Gary and bobby. You are however excluding my premise and the reason is within the link that I have provided about "Intellectually-dishonest arguments".

If it does not fit into your paradigm, if it does not point away from God and what is in nature itself, then you reject it by making fun of it, denying it, or lie about it. Im told to have an open mind and accept what you say as truth. Yet, when I point, and give reason for pointing, the open mind that Im told to hold, is in turn, found closed within you.

Not only is this you do Intellectually-dishonest, it is the Ultimate in Hypocritical Thinking.

Intellectually-dishonest arguments!

If it doesn't happen in nature it does not explain nature.

Nothing wrong with my critical thinking.

That link in my opinion describes ID to a tee, he frequently does the actions described in:

2. Changing the subject:

4. Citing irrelevant facts or logic:

5. False premise

6. Hearsay

7. Unqualified expert opinion:

need I go further.

If I was to stoop down to where you are......yes you would have a point. I have not.

Need I go further?

Intellectually-dishonest arguments!

If it doesn't happen in nature it does not explain nature.

Nothing wrong with my critical thinking.

That link in my opinion describes ID to a tee, he frequently does the actions described in:

2. Changing the subject:

4. Citing irrelevant facts or logic:

5. False premise

6. Hearsay

7. Unqualified expert opinion:

need I go further.

If I was to stoop down to where you are......yes you would have a point. I have not.

Need I go further?

I find that rather insulting. As you don't know me. And I think you would find I am so far above you that you couldn't see me even on a perfect day.

And if you do not stop acting as per descibed in your link then you have lost all credibility, thats if you had any, with people here and probably with all those you might think are your friends.

Intellectually-dishonest arguments!

If it doesn't happen in nature it does not explain nature.

Nothing wrong with my critical thinking.

That link in my opinion describes ID to a tee, he frequently does the actions described in:

2. Changing the subject:

4. Citing irrelevant facts or logic:

5. False premise

6. Hearsay

7. Unqualified expert opinion:

need I go further.

If I was to stoop down to where you are......yes you would have a point. I have not.

Need I go further?

I find that rather insulting. As you don't know me. And I think you would find I am so far above you that you couldn't see me even on a perfect day.

And if you do not stop acting as per descibed in your link then you have lost all credibility, thats if you had any, with people here and probably with all those you might think are your friends.

Bait and switch to Hypocritical Thinking? [sigh] Set and point.....

Im not excluding the lab from the universe, Gary and bobby. You are however excluding my premise and the reason is within the link that I have provided about "Intellectually-dishonest arguments".

If it does not fit into your paradigm, if it does not point away from God and what is in nature itself, then you reject it by making fun of it, denying it, or lie about it. Im told to have an open mind and accept what you say as truth. Yet, when I point, and give reason for pointing, the open mind that Im told to hold, is in turn, found closed within you.

Not only is this you do Intellectually-dishonest, it is the Ultimate in Hypocritical Thinking.

What is the premise related to liquid helium you are claiming I have excluded?

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Im not excluding the lab from the universe, Gary and bobby. You are however excluding my premise and the reason is within the link that I have provided about "Intellectually-dishonest arguments".

If it does not fit into your paradigm, if it does not point away from God and what is in nature itself, then you reject it by making fun of it, denying it, or lie about it. Im told to have an open mind and accept what you say as truth. Yet, when I point, and give reason for pointing, the open mind that Im told to hold, is in turn, found closed within you.

Not only is this you do Intellectually-dishonest, it is the Ultimate in Hypocritical Thinking.

Sigh,

Phase changes are natural. Just because humans have not discovered a place where the universe "makes" large quantities of liquid helium, does not mean there is no such place. If there is a place where even a hand full of liquid helium atoms exist other than by man's refrigerator, it puts the lie to your supposition doesn't it? The universe is a vast place, it is up to you to prove that it can not happen anywhere without humans help.

I suppose the next thing you will say is dry ice isn't natural because it doesn't occur on earth except in a lab.

In any case it is irrelevant to the original question of the QM effect of it flowing uphill. Or say the QM effect of the quantization of vortexes in it. As I have said elsewhere, inconvenient facts must be ignored by a believer. We are seeing a demonstration of that in this thread.

If there is God, he is the dice.

---

Im not excluding the lab from the universe, Gary and bobby. You are however excluding my premise and the reason is within the link that I have provided about "Intellectually-dishonest arguments".

If it does not fit into your paradigm, if it does not point away from God and what is in nature itself, then you reject it by making fun of it, denying it, or lie about it. Im told to have an open mind and accept what you say as truth. Yet, when I point, and give reason for pointing, the open mind that Im told to hold, is in turn, found closed within you.

Not only is this you do Intellectually-dishonest, it is the Ultimate in Hypocritical Thinking.

Sigh,

Phase changes are natural. Just because humans have not discovered a place where the universe "makes" large quantities of liquid helium, does not mean there is no such place. If there is a place where even a hand full of liquid helium atoms exist other than by man's refrigerator, it puts the lie to your supposition doesn't it? The universe is a vast place, it is up to you to prove that it can not happen anywhere without humans help.

I suppose the next thing you will say is dry ice isn't natural because it doesn't occur on earth except in a lab.

In any case it is irrelevant to the original question of the QM effect of it flowing uphill. Or say the QM effect of the quantization of vortexes in it. As I have said elsewhere, inconvenient facts must be ignored by a believer. We are seeing a demonstration of that in this thread.

If there is God, he is the dice.

You have not even found a handful.

As you said the universe is a vast place, and its up to you to prove that there is no Designer.

If there is no God we perhaps should worship dice.

Im not excluding the lab from the universe, Gary and bobby. You are however excluding my premise and the reason is within the link that I have provided about "Intellectually-dishonest arguments".

If it does not fit into your paradigm, if it does not point away from God and what is in nature itself, then you reject it by making fun of it, denying it, or lie about it. Im told to have an open mind and accept what you say as truth. Yet, when I point, and give reason for pointing, the open mind that Im told to hold, is in turn, found closed within you.

Not only is this you do Intellectually-dishonest, it is the Ultimate in Hypocritical Thinking.

Sigh,

Phase changes are natural. Just because humans have not discovered a place where the universe "makes" large quantities of liquid helium, does not mean there is no such place. If there is a place where even a hand full of liquid helium atoms exist other than by man's refrigerator, it puts the lie to your supposition doesn't it? The universe is a vast place, it is up to you to prove that it can not happen anywhere without humans help.

I suppose the next thing you will say is dry ice isn't natural because it doesn't occur on earth except in a lab.

In any case it is irrelevant to the original question of the QM effect of it flowing uphill. Or say the QM effect of the quantization of vortexes in it. As I have said elsewhere, inconvenient facts must be ignored by a believer. We are seeing a demonstration of that in this thread.

If there is God, he is the dice.

You have not even found a handful.

As you said the universe is a vast place, and its up to you to prove that there is no Designer.

If there is no God we perhaps should worship dice.

As you are trying to show us there is a designer. It not our responsibility to prove there isn't one. It is your job to show us the error of our ways and prove there is one.

So I challenge you to produce one little bit of proof there is one because to date you have failed miserably to do that.

As you said the universe is a vast place, and its up to you to prove that there is no Designer.

#2 from your list.

As to finding it, you point out the nebula at 1K earlier in this thread. Less than 3K helium is in a liquid phase, so you have already found it for me. Thanks.

If there is no God we perhaps should worship dice.

Because you brought it up, why worship?

---

As you said the universe is a vast place, and its up to you to prove that there is no Designer.

#2 from your list.

As to finding it, you point out the nebula at 1K earlier in this thread. Less than 3K helium is in a liquid phase, so you have already found it for me. Thanks.

If there is no God we perhaps should worship dice.

Because you brought it up, why worship?

[smile] Is it running uphill?

well we know its not dog crap because everyone knows that stuff rolls down hill... Always. Its a law of nature

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope