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msattler
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Message 1212180 - Posted: 31 Mar 2012, 3:26:35 UTC

Just golf, eh?
I have no time for what some of you did to my last thread.......
Just be the ball......no further comment, you are what you were.
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msattler
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Message 1212257 - Posted: 31 Mar 2012, 9:39:05 UTC
Last modified: 31 Mar 2012, 9:41:40 UTC

All apologies accepted......
It's a sensitive subject, I know.
You can't be faulted for not knowing what I know, or believing what I believe.
Love you all for what you are or are not, my friends.

I think Dylan once said it best.....or maybe Art Garfunkle or Paul Simon....dunno...right now.
"All lies and jest, still...A man hears what he wants to hear.....and disregards the rest, la la la la."

I do declare, there were some times I took some comfort there....

And, after changes, we are more or less the same.

The kitties and I love you all for accepting me for what I may or may not be at times. What more could a man ask for, eh?
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Message 1212259 - Posted: 31 Mar 2012, 9:52:48 UTC

That's OK- No apologies needed.

The Zeus thing didn't work for Socrates either.

msattler
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Message 1212260 - Posted: 31 Mar 2012, 9:56:55 UTC

Oh, my. A couple of wonderful PMs sent my way.

I do love you, my Seti friends.

Soooooooooooo much.

Best wishes and kitty kisses all around.

When times get tough, you have all been such friends.

I am quite humbled.

You do not have to accept my theology to be kind, and you have shown that.
Yes, the Lord does work in mysterious ways. And I know that.
Black Mountain Rag....enjoy.
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Message 1212430 - Posted: 31 Mar 2012, 17:19:58 UTC

Now folks can see why I chose not to participate. Been round the block a few times. I've learnt not to go looking for trouble.
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msattler
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Message 1212604 - Posted: 31 Mar 2012, 23:39:07 UTC - in response to Message 1212430.

Now folks can see why I chose not to participate. Been round the block a few times. I've learnt not to go looking for trouble.

I did not go out looking for trouble, just wanted to share my faith in God.

I did not count on the bashing that would commence.

My faith has not diminished.
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Message 1212656 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 4:13:28 UTC - in response to Message 1212604.

I wouldn't expect to see your faith diminished.

As to 'going out and looking for trouble' -- I'd suggest that open blogs (particularly open Political blogs) are a less than optimal target for sharing one's particular faith. I am a tad surprised that you were surprised at the reaction you got here. There are those who might look at 'sharing your faith in God' as quite close to proselytizing and that tends to get bashed.



I did not go out looking for trouble, just wanted to share my faith in God.

I did not count on the bashing that would commence.

My faith has not diminished.


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Message 1212742 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 8:41:36 UTC

I can sympathise with Mark here because I think that he created the thread genuinely hoping for some sensible discussion. But I didn't have as much belief in some of the posters around that he did, and I knew how it was likely to turn out. And sadly it did.


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Message 1212767 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 10:04:03 UTC - in response to Message 1212180.

Christianity in a politics group is appropriate. Of course so is Judaism and Islam as all three spread by military force from a small beginning. And in all three cases became dominant locally because of conflict. Christianity differs from the other two in that it was local rioting and threat of civil war instead of overt military action.

No matter what exists in unprovenanced religious tradition only Islam can claim records of an original religious impulse from one man who claimed to hear voices. We have a name for people like that. Oddly it is the first religion to make a clear, unambiguous assertion of monotheism with the simple declarative sentence, there is no god but god. There is a huge difference between "we believe in one god" and "we believe there is only one god."

The Yahweh cult was established in Judea by winning the civil war after its sedition against and secession from the Seleucids and with the support of the Ptolemeys. The high priest Onias was the proximate cause. (See Josephus) It then conquered Idumae, Samaria and the Galilee and imposed its Yahweh cult practices on the losers.

Christianity incited local conflict as though a Jerry Falwell called for destroying the churches of those who accepted evolution and Papists. The Christians condemned all "pagan" learning regardless of the subject. The surviving records of the council called by Constantine indicate only intense political pressure from Constantine without the least suggestion of divine guidance or inspiration. After only three years his successor Julian was murdered by his own family for not supporting Christianity.

Despite all of this the religion of the people has never been the religion of the priests. A modern example is Santorum's adamantly anti-abortion and anti-birth control stance. That is position of the Catholic Church and is to garner the support of said church. At the same time some 80% of Catholic Americans support one or the other. The religion of Catholics is not the religion of the Catholic Church.


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The origin of the Yahweh Cult

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Message 1212828 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 15:47:09 UTC - in response to Message 1212742.
Last modified: 1 Apr 2012, 15:48:00 UTC

I can sympathise with Mark here because I think that he created the thread genuinely hoping for some sensible discussion. But I didn't have as much belief in some of the posters around that he did, and I knew how it was likely to turn out. And sadly it did.


Believe it or not, I was also hoping for sensible discussion. I trust other posters will continue to answer questions about the statements they make here, just as you can trust that I will continue to ask questions.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1212835 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 15:57:41 UTC

I think we have an understanding here Bobby. Just wish others did ....

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Message 1212939 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 19:18:13 UTC - in response to Message 1212742.

I can sympathise with Mark here because I think that he created the thread genuinely hoping for some sensible discussion. But I didn't have as much belief in some of the posters around that he did, and I knew how it was likely to turn out. And sadly it did.



+1
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msattler
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Message 1212947 - Posted: 1 Apr 2012, 19:45:28 UTC

And I'll get over it, friends.
No problem.
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Message 1213094 - Posted: 2 Apr 2012, 3:15:20 UTC - in response to Message 1212604.

Now folks can see why I chose not to participate. Been round the block a few times. I've learnt not to go looking for trouble.

I did not go out looking for trouble, just wanted to share my faith in God.

I did not count on the bashing that would commence.

My faith has not diminished.


I think it was only 1 or 2 of the posters,
(And in this thread, perhaps a new 1.)
Personally, I would like to see your other thread re-opened, as I wished to respond to some of the more recent posts at the end. Namely, scimansteve's bit about Christianity being used to promote slavery. I really think the "all religion is good" (or, "everything about my religion is good") and "all religion is bad" stances are, bluntly put, dishonest.

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Message 1215014 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 6:58:56 UTC - in response to Message 1213094.

msattler,

I also apologize for storming out of the original thread. I started a thread way back, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=64134
Heaven May Be a 'Fairy Story' to Stephen Hawking, Not to Many Americans


I feel like Pandora's Box, was opened in the thread. It was Hawking, that i was angry with. He flip-flops.

All the best,
Lynn

msattler
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Message 1215029 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 7:59:49 UTC - in response to Message 1215014.
Last modified: 7 Apr 2012, 8:00:58 UTC

msattler,

I also apologize for storming out of the original thread. I started a thread way back, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=64134
Heaven May Be a 'Fairy Story' to Stephen Hawking, Not to Many Americans


I feel like Pandora's Box, was opened in the thread. It was Hawking, that i was angry with. He flip-flops.

All the best,
Lynn

No apologies needed......none warranted.
Religion is a special thing that some people hold dear......and some certainly do not.
Those who have it tend to uphold it, well, religiously. And those who do not tend to diss it most vehemently.

Maybe my fault for trying to bring it up on a mostly scientific project's forums, after all, this is not a prayer group we got going here...LOL.

Hawking should be pardoned for all he says......his mind is all that he has, as his body is trying to leave him.

His scientific views have opened many horizons...and he is entitled to his opinion, even if it changes at times. Mine has been known to also.

Your apology, well tendered is accepted, although not needed in the slightest.
Glad to see you stuck around.
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Message 1215033 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 8:05:20 UTC

@Mark & Lynn

Well done, perhaps others could take a lesson in civility from you two :-)

msattler
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Message 1215037 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 8:11:12 UTC - in response to Message 1215033.
Last modified: 7 Apr 2012, 8:12:10 UTC

@Mark & Lynn

Well done, perhaps others could take a lesson in civility from you two :-)


I made the point in the original thread that I never expected everybody to join hands and sing Kumbaya.......

I simply expected it to be more civil without the jousting and poking that ensued.

I expected some negative responses from the many that unleash their tongues around here......especially when the thread got sent to 'politics'.

Just wish some could have expressed their views on the subject without attacking those who they do not agree with.
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Message 1215067 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 10:08:53 UTC - in response to Message 1215014.
Last modified: 7 Apr 2012, 10:09:28 UTC

msattler,

I also apologize for storming out of the original thread. I started a thread way back, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=64134
Heaven May Be a 'Fairy Story' to Stephen Hawking, Not to Many Americans


I feel like Pandora's Box, was opened in the thread. It was Hawking, that i was angry with. He flip-flops.

All the best,
Lynn

As your original thread is closed I will point you to at least one American that does support the "Heaven May Be a 'Fairy Story" view in the book "A Universe from Nothing": Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing

by Lawrence M. Krauss, Richard Dawkins

Lawrence M. Krauss, a Canadian/American, is a professor at Arizona State University.

Synopsis

"WHERE DID THE UNIVERSE COME FROM?
WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE IT?
WHAT WILL THE FUTURE BRING?
AND FINALLY, WHY IS THERESOMETHING RATHER THAN NOTHING?"

Lawrence Krauss's provocative answers to these and other timeless questions in a wildly popular lecture now on YouTube have attracted almost a million viewers. The last of these questions in particular has been at the center of religious and philosophical debates about the existence of God, and it's the supposed counterargument to anyone who questions the need for God. As Krauss argues, scientists have, however, historically focused on other, more pressing issues--such as figuring out how the universe actually functions, which can ultimately help us to improve the quality of our lives.

Now, in a cosmological story that rivets as it enlightens, pioneering theoretical physicist Lawrence Krauss explains the groundbreaking new scientific advances that turn the most basic philosophical questions on their heads. One of the few prominent scientists today to have actively crossed the chasm between science and popular culture, Krauss reveals that modern science is addressing the question of why there is something rather than nothing, with surprising and fascinating results. The staggeringly beautiful experimental observations and mind-bending new theories are all described accessibly in A Universe from Nothing, and they suggest that not only can something arise from nothing, something will always arise from nothing.

With his characteristic wry humor and wonderfully clear explanations, Krauss takes us back to the beginning of the beginning, presenting the most recent evidence for how our universe evolved--and the implications for how it's going to end. It will provoke, challenge, and delight readers as it looks at the most basic underpinnings of existence in a whole new way. And this knowledge that our universe will be quite different in the future from today has profound implications and directly affects how we live in the present. As Richard Dawkins has described it: This could potentially be the most important scientific book with implications for supernaturalism since Darwin.

A fascinating antidote to outmoded philosophical and religious thinking, A Universe from Nothing is a provocative, game-changing entry into the debate about the existence of God and everything that exists. "Forget Jesus," Krauss has argued, "the stars died so you could be born."

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Message 1215069 - Posted: 7 Apr 2012, 10:33:57 UTC - in response to Message 1215067.

Did God come from nothing ? Was there an Uber-God who made our God. Was it the same one who made Zeus, Apollo and the seven ranks of Angels. Or perhaps these were fairy tales that adults could just not outgrow. Was there a competing Uber-God who made Satin (Lucifer?).

Seems kind of silly doesn't it ?? Or maybe things just ARE--no beginning and no end. (Cogito ergo sum)

Quantum particles come from nothing . The why and how make a good substitute for others' version of God.

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