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WinterKnight
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Message 1329598 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 21:30:47 UTC - in response to Message 1329581.
Last modified: 20 Jan 2013, 21:32:32 UTC

One of the reasons that places like Africa are short of food is because they now grow crops for export.

Ah yes. Are the locals willing -- able -- to pay the same, for any crop, that the farmer makes by growing this crop for export? Again, you demonstrate that ignorance is bliss.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.


People should make seasonal crops a treet, as in Strawberries at the time of Wimboldon, and not at Christmas.

Wave your arms and say make it so.

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Message 1329609 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 22:06:03 UTC - in response to Message 1329598.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.

The land owner is the farmer, or do you mean the field worker?


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Message 1329611 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 22:13:19 UTC - in response to Message 1329609.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.

The land owner is the farmer, or do you mean the field worker?


never heard of "tenant farmers"?
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Message 1329614 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 22:19:31 UTC
Last modified: 20 Jan 2013, 22:20:28 UTC

Meanwhile, the obtuse thread troll has derailed the thread as usual... Can he really lead us into how goats are milked or not within evil religious extremism in Timbuktu?...


More on topic is what should or can be done about corporate profiteering and processed foods cost cutting killing their consumers with bad health from unhealthy products and unhealthy Marketing?...


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Message 1329615 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 22:27:06 UTC - in response to Message 1329611.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.

The land owner is the farmer, or do you mean the field worker?


never heard of "tenant farmers"?

Just like the BLM, gives a permit to "farm" cattle on grassland. Is this different than giving free rent to a on site manager?

In any case all a tangent to the fact that the most profitable crop will be grown, not necessarily what will feed the locals.


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Message 1329619 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 22:32:46 UTC - in response to Message 1329609.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.

The land owner is the farmer, or do you mean the field worker?


The land owner is frequently NOT a farmer. In some countries it will be a corrupt politician or one of his family. And in some cases the land owner will be an international organisation, that tells the farmer what it wants grown on its land.

And there has also been some questioning of whether the Fair Trade movement is actually fair. Although it offers a minimum price, in times of high prices the farmers get a lower price.

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Message 1329639 - Posted: 20 Jan 2013, 23:37:55 UTC - in response to Message 1329619.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.

The land owner is the farmer, or do you mean the field worker?


The land owner is frequently NOT a farmer. In some countries it will be a corrupt politician or one of his family. And in some cases the land owner will be an international organisation, that tells the farmer what it wants grown on its land.

Is the person who dictates what is to be grown the farmer? Or is that only the field worker or manager?

The title is irrelevant. The person who makes this decision is going to seek to maximize profit. That is the relevant thing to the discussion at hand about why GM, pesticides, etc., are going to be used. Other than the field workers getting enough food to work efficiently the farmer does not care about the locals and if the farmer is a corporation/government because of his fiduciary duty he is legally bound not to care. Anything to increase the monetary return per acre per reporting period.



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Message 1329680 - Posted: 21 Jan 2013, 1:23:24 UTC - in response to Message 1329639.

... legally bound not to care. ...

And your solution to the sinking ship, NOT involving nuking everything, is?


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Message 1329772 - Posted: 21 Jan 2013, 5:42:11 UTC - in response to Message 1329639.

Again you fail to show any knowledge of some African countries, you have to think medival Europe, the land owner tells the farmer what to grow.

The land owner is the farmer, or do you mean the field worker?


The land owner is frequently NOT a farmer. In some countries it will be a corrupt politician or one of his family. And in some cases the land owner will be an international organisation, that tells the farmer what it wants grown on its land.

Is the person who dictates what is to be grown the farmer? Or is that only the field worker or manager?

The title is irrelevant. The person who makes this decision is going to seek to maximize profit. That is the relevant thing to the discussion at hand about why GM, pesticides, etc., are going to be used. Other than the field workers getting enough food to work efficiently the farmer does not care about the locals and if the farmer is a corporation/government because of his fiduciary duty he is legally bound not to care. Anything to increase the monetary return per acre per reporting period.




There are many farmers here locally that would take great offense to this. Not all farms are owned by corporations. Many take great pride in producing QUALITY food, as naturally as possible. This also can produce higher prices.

Perhaps banning corporate farms would be a reasonable measure though. In fact banning all major corporations might be a good long term goal. They obviously can not be trusted.
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Message 1329832 - Posted: 21 Jan 2013, 15:39:41 UTC

Can we ban unhealthy food from our children?

Or would better education to undo the mis-education from addictive tastes and powerful Marketing be workable?

At the moment, the fast food industry does appear to be using unsavory tactics that are more akin to hungry hyenas surrounding their prey...


Wales' top doctor proposes fast food ban near schools

Wales' chief medical officer has suggested banning fast food outlets near schools.


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Message 1329995 - Posted: 21 Jan 2013, 23:58:20 UTC

Some interesting comment and notes:


Safety concerns emerge over horse DNA in supermarket beef

... "All we know is it is not a beefburger. What is it? We don't know. Why was it picked up in Ireland and not the UK, and how long has it been going on? Until we know what the source is of the 'horse' or 'something derived from horse' that has been found in the beef products, we cannot be sure there is no food safety risk."

Campbell is the chief public analyst for West Yorkshire and a leading expert on the quality of meat. He will carry out some of the testing as the official investigation into the horsemeat scandal develops. ...

... raw materials could be coming from slaughterhouses that were not approved for processing meat for human consumption, or from unfit horses destined for the knacker's yard but which had instead ended up in the human food chain.

There could also be risks around residues of medicines used for sick animals but not considered safe for the human food chain...



Let's talk horse sense about food

... How you respond to the horsemeat burger story will depend upon who you are...

... you have to look to the hard, unemotional logic of economics. It is about the global commodity that food has become and it is about the way the British supermarkets have consolidated power in the market place to deal with that commoditisation. None of these things made last week's headline-grabber inevitable. But they did make it seriously likely and there will be other scandals like it in years to come unless the major retailers change their ways. ...



That second article could almost have been written by a more eloquent incarnation of our well loved GC from these forums... All from the horse's mouth?

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Message 1330056 - Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 4:31:07 UTC - in response to Message 1329772.

Perhaps banning corporate farms would be a reasonable measure though. In fact banning all major corporations might be a good long term goal. They obviously can not be trusted.

Public corporations can be trusted to obey the fiduciary duty to shareholders. Perhaps it is the fiduciary duty to shareholders that should be subordinated.

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Message 1330075 - Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 5:44:15 UTC - in response to Message 1329680.

... legally bound not to care. ...

And your solution to the sinking ship, NOT involving nuking everything, is?

'Twas I who asked you how to solve the global population problem. I know you don't like mine, but you haven't said they would not work.

I point out some problems in talking about it -- negotiated -- solutions. Is reproduction an inalienable right? If it is, how can you justify government control of an inalienable right without letting government control all inalienable rights? Assuming government can control it, can you educate the moron sufficiently that he will agree a limit is in his self interest? Is this something that will have to be imposed by force?

I'd love to hear a different solution, one that actually works from a real world as it exists engineering standpoint. Preferably one that works not only today but 10,000 years in the future.

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Message 1330120 - Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 11:31:42 UTC - in response to Message 1330056.

Perhaps banning corporate farms would be a reasonable measure though. In fact banning all major corporations might be a good long term goal. They obviously can not be trusted.

Public corporations can be trusted to obey the fiduciary duty to shareholders. Perhaps it is the fiduciary duty to shareholders that should be subordinated.


Public corporations can not be trusted. More often than not the board and CEO operate in their own interest at the expense of share holders, up to and including destroying company reputation(intangibles) and long term success to reward themselves for short term profit.

Smaller companies and individuals still take pride in what they produce. That is how they get started. Or failing that they collapse.
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Message 1330141 - Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 13:17:56 UTC - in response to Message 1330075.
Last modified: 22 Jan 2013, 13:19:49 UTC

... Is reproduction an inalienable right? ...

Moderation effects should come into play in that parents should first be able to feel that they can successfully reproduce and support offspring before adding more mouths to feed. Unfortunately, that seems to be subverted by various societies and cultures. Also, women are widely badly abused...

I'd love to hear a different solution, one that actually works from a real world as it exists engineering standpoint. Preferably one that works not only today but 10,000 years in the future.

Better education and a cultural shift?... That works very well for some parts of the world.

Also, a careful political approach to certain parts of the world. We should not simply blindly only feed a continuing problem. There has to be education and political and cultural change also. No nukes necessary but certainly a shift in opinion and religion is needed...


There is some highly public comment for a small part of our world:

David Attenborough - Humans are plague on Earth

... “We are a plague on the Earth. It’s coming home to roost over the next 50 years or so. It’s not just climate change; it’s sheer space, places to grow food for this enormous horde. Either we limit our population growth or the natural world will do it for us, and the natural world is doing it for us right now,” ...


Note: That still doesn't suggest anything about nuking anything.

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Message 1330164 - Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 15:00:56 UTC - in response to Message 1330120.

Public corporations can not be trusted. More often than not the board and CEO operate in their own interest at the expense of share holders, up to and including destroying company reputation(intangibles) and long term success to reward themselves for short term profit.

Their reporting period is a per quarter basis. They do quite well maximizing this. Remember shareholders buy and sell all the time in a public company, there is no need to be long term as is the case with an unregistered company whose shares can not be traded. The only long term investors in a public company are likely to be the board itself via the stock options plan which is their salary. Also do not forget that TV has significantly shortened the attention span of the average human so one quarters damage to reputation is quickly forgotten today. You need to understand the nature of the beast if you expect to control it.

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Message 1330250 - Posted: 22 Jan 2013, 22:26:45 UTC - in response to Message 1330141.
Last modified: 22 Jan 2013, 22:27:10 UTC

I'd love to hear a different solution, one that actually works from a real world as it exists engineering standpoint. Preferably one that works not only today but 10,000 years in the future.

Better education and a cultural shift?... That works very well for some parts of the world.

Also, a careful political approach to certain parts of the world. We should not simply blindly only feed a continuing problem. There has to be education and political and cultural change also. No nukes necessary but certainly a shift in opinion and religion is needed...

So you are admitting the problem can't be solved by education alone. Cultural change is not easy to engineer in many places. I believe that was tried in Russia after the Tsars. I suppose something like it will have to be imposed in those areas where Sharia presently exists.
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Message 1330267 - Posted: 23 Jan 2013, 0:17:02 UTC - in response to Message 1330164.

Public corporations can not be trusted. More often than not the board and CEO operate in their own interest at the expense of share holders, up to and including destroying company reputation(intangibles) and long term success to reward themselves for short term profit.

Their reporting period is a per quarter basis. They do quite well maximizing this. Remember shareholders buy and sell all the time in a public company, there is no need to be long term as is the case with an unregistered company whose shares can not be traded. The only long term investors in a public company are likely to be the board itself via the stock options plan which is their salary. Also do not forget that TV has significantly shortened the attention span of the average human so one quarters damage to reputation is quickly forgotten today. You need to understand the nature of the beast if you expect to control it.


Sacrificing the long term outlook for short term gains favors traders, not investors. This is not in the best interest of the investors, the vast majority of share holders.

This does in fact occur, and is exactly why corporations can not be trusted. ESPECIALLY with our food supply.
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Message 1330306 - Posted: 23 Jan 2013, 5:28:59 UTC - in response to Message 1330267.

Sacrificing the long term outlook for short term gains favors traders, not investors. This is not in the best interest of the investors, the vast majority of share holders.

You might be surprised to learn that today the vast majority of stock is controlled by traders and not investors. It has changed how the stock market acts and how corporations do business.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/who-owns-the-u-s-equity-market/

Note that hedge funds are included in the 36% of households slice.
All the other slices are controlled by traders, that is 64% of the market.

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Message 1330353 - Posted: 23 Jan 2013, 12:14:08 UTC - in response to Message 1330306.

no, most of the rest of the pie is not controlled(held) by traders. Traders by their nature are opportunists. They only want to be in for the up portion, and often through hard times push down the prices even further than natural.

Hedge Funds are filled with the opportunists that will take advantage of any movement. Mutual funds, ETF's, Insurance(people that really should update their investment methods)and the privately held(includes direct controlled IRA/401K/ are the people that actually INVEST. That is the vast majority of the market. Hedge funds and traders have no issue with stomping a good idea into the dirt to make a quick buck.

That said.. this is not about food and is completely off topic. Unless you want to tell me we should eat whatever they try to feed us for the benefit of traders(spell that any way you want) and hedge funds.

What is being slid into our burgers was often used in commercial grade Bologna,
which is what it all is. They are still feeding us Bologna.

Ground chuck is in my freezer. What is in yours?
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