The problem is with the Armed Forces that things like this and things like covering Firemans strikes is that the units involved never recover properly. They do have defence roles to fill, that is their primary job. And you have to remember they are not all the PBI (poor bloody infantry) even though it maybe them that go to the Olympic site, the bases still have to be kept running and guarded etc. so that takes the vehicle mechanics etc away from their primary job. That leads to maintenance and repairs not been completed and you end up like we did before the first Gulf war with vehicles not being fit for task.

It annoys me considerably when the government don't overlook the situations correctly and think "well we will just put x thousand military people in there to cover our failings"

If the government think this is the right choice then they should increase Military spending by about twice so that troops can be rotated so that at all times there are personnel trained and available to cover the failings of Whitehall.

I was involved in one of these incidents in the 70's, did we get our leave back? No, one family did get their deposit repaid. It hits the wives and kids too.
Did we get the maintenance done? Yes, but only with people doing 60 hour weeks for nearly two solid months.
Did we get any extra pay? No.

If someone asked me how much it should cost G4S to compensate these 3500 troops and all the others affected the £30 Million would be a minimum.

Now that is one of the best replys you've given in a while. However, mixing up issues? Doubt it, they're both relevant to London 2012.

As for compensation to the military, it's not an issue with £££, it's a prinicple of time.

To serving personnel, time is more valuable than cash, especially those with families. Tickets diverted, deferred leave, that's all good & well, but it is, IMV, as well as many forces personnel I would more than likely, correctly assume, a damning insult. It just confirms to them that all they are is "a measure of last resort" & "You will obey orders".

As you have stated, in the 21C these things happen (they shouldn't be, but as you correctly stated, they do), which brings us right back to using troops as serfs - what is going to happen when an event like this occurs again - with troop numbers being constantly cut to the bare bone & with overseas committments?

Should the games be a real success, I can see this getting a lot worse should the UK get to hold the World Cup.

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Good post WK.

If the government think this is the right choice then they should increase Military spending by about twice so that troops can be rotated so that at all times there are personnel trained and available to cover the failings of Whitehall.

Totally agree, but both you & I know, that will never happen!

If the government think this is the right choice then they should increase Military spending by about twice so that troops can be rotated so that at all times there are personnel trained and available to cover the failings of Whitehall.

Are you off your rocker? That's too simple a solution. Don't forget, they're doing their best to save cash so that the CSU can strike for better conditions & increased pay & pensions.

I was involved in one of these incidents in the 70's, did we get our leave back? No, one family did get their deposit repaid. It hits the wives and kids too.
Did we get the maintenance done? Yes, but only with people doing 60 hour weeks for nearly two solid months.
Did we get any extra pay? No.

Yep, just your usual military service. Had the same happen when in the RCT. Even though we were under heavy pressure, we felt really sorry for the REME guys.

If someone asked me how much it should cost G4S to compensate these 3500 troops and all the others affected the £30 Million would be a minimum.

Disagree here - should be at least double that.

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A dangerous precedent is being set which could have fatal effects down the line(no pun intended) - This is extremely worrying: -

Tube to run later during games

For a start, most trains leave a terminus around 23:30 arriving at a depot at the other end of the line by approx 01:00 to 01:15 at the latest, with the first train leaving in the morning at approx 04:10.

From the departure of thae last train from the terminus, a Permanent Way(Railway maintainance) train departs some time later behind it, with the line controller informing that P/W train as each section is cleared by the last public train. In this way, maintainance to the track, signalling gets completed.

With trains leaving Central London later, that is going to drastically impinge on the P/W staff.

With such pressure, mistakes can happen & as shown in the past, some of these mistakes have proven fatal.

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2nd reply to your post Chris. Theresa May has some serious questions to answer: -

G4S "Management Fees" increased

"Ministers said that problems with G4S only became apparent this week. But a separate Home Office document, seen by ITV News, shows that in April, officials were predicting “big shortfalls against planned numbers” of security staff".

April would still have been late in the day, but it would have made a hell of a difference with regards to training the staff needed.

So it's not just the case of G4S answering questions but our "beloved" politicians & Civil Serfants as well!

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99% of weekend London Undergound maintenance work over-runs on a Monday morning. Why? Because the engineering planning engineers are incompetent at their job. It's the poor track workers toiling at high temperatures at 3am in the morning that get the flack. I have a friend in the IT side of LU and he has said to me, that if the general public knew what really went on behind the scenes, they wouldn't use the tube system. We don't get "smouldering on the track" announcements any more, but it still goes on.

Exactly! since it became London Underground with all 13 lines as seperate business divisions, the days of operations when it was London Transport Executive are long gone.

P/W work was done 7 days a week & all train crews had (under the rules & regulations) to ensure that at the beginning of each week, have the current weekly issue of the "Traffic Circular" detailing all engineering work/speed restrictions/diversions, & 99% of the time, everything ran smoothly without incident.

Now we seem to be getting weekend maintainance work with their tight time dealines so that the "big Chiefs" have an easy time of it.

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Now that is one of the best replys you've given in a while.

Oh my gosh, blush blush ...

shows that in April, officials were predicting “big shortfalls against planned numbers” of security staff".

The government were assured by Locog and G4S that there was no problem. You don't buy a dog and bark yourself ....

As stated in another thread & again highly relevant here...

"Checks & Balances"

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One really does have to admit that the Internet makes researching a lot easier than in the old days of attending libraries, newspaper archives, muesums etc etc.

Now it's just a few clicks away....

London 2012 - The great Olympic sponsorship bandwagon

"When you get brands parading like peacocks rather than sharing the real essence of the Olympic spirit - it becomes a farce verging on propaganda," says brand consultant Jonathan Gabay.

"Locog would have to be careful about which cases it brings as it does not want to damage the reputation of the Olympics by bringing the wrong case."

Hmmn, just wondering what would happen if people entered the stadiums with "Coke" cans instead of Coca Cola?

A bit of duplicity here methinks....

"The IOC notes that both Coca-Cola and McDonald's are longstanding sponsors and are involved in educational programmes to promote healthy lifestyles".

"Which is why if Coca-Cola is spending upwards of £100m for a right of association, which is clearly a huge amount of money, the IOC understands brands need category exclusivity."

So what's a 100 mill or two for sponsorship & educational programs? It's just a pebble in a vast ocean of comsumption for Cola Cola. AND as for Lloyds, if they have that much spare cash, how about returning it to the taxpayers?

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It's all sad and true, but that's life in the 21C.

Unfortunately, even I can't dispute that fact.

However, it does beg the question that £££££ is all people are interested in....

...& secondly, just how stupid do the politicans, service personnel & fatcats think the electorate really are?

Point in question: -

London 2012 - RAF has "Lethal Force" option

Can anyone besides myself, see the glaring gap in security here?

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Sorry Lord Coe, you dropped off, and it was the Home Secretary that was forced to pick up the pieces for you. How dare you say that you brought in the extra military resources. You might be a past Olympic medallist and MP, but you are clearly out of your depth being put in charge of the London Olympics. Britain will regret that.

Sorry, not quite correct....

He actually said "The 2012 organising committee recognised the security implications".

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London 2012 Olympics: Games could need more troops, Lord Coe suggests

This is getting out of hand.

I think we are getting close to the point where all the UK Armed Forces that are not on absolutely essential miitary duties will be defending a few square miles of the East End of London rather than the country.

Time to say the modern Olympics should be killed off.

The sponsorship firms are a joke.
Too much disruption, especially for the local area and it's businesses.
Too much money poured into a small part of the country.
No guarantee that the games will be cost effective.
And too much security needed that couldn't be provided by the contracted firm.

Why didn't they just put all the security in the hands of the MOD from day one and give them the money.

This is getting out of hand.

I agree that we are not in the best of situations less than a fortnight before the off.

Time to say the modern Olympics should be killed off.

Just because the UK may be having difficulties, and some see little benefits to holding it, that won't stop other countries wanting to host it in the future. It isn't any fault of the Olympics itself. What this has shown is that the list of countries capable of holding it is getting smaller each year.

But as I said earlier, except for Barcelona, no country has seen any lasting benefits from holding the games, therefore as a business model it is at best flawed. Relies on business sponsors who don't have the best credentials where fitness is concerned.

Why didn't they just put all the security in the hands of the MOD from day one and give them the money.

That is not the prime function of the armed forces. The olympics is basically a commercial undertaking, and it was right that the bulk of the security was provided by private firms and other organisations. But given the international terrorism situation, there was always going to be an element of armed forces involvement anyway. According to the Home Office, at the present time there is no known specific threat to Olympic security, but planning has taken place to cover one level higher than the current one. If at any time the threat level is raised, that will have been allowed for.

Of course it is not function of the Armed Forces to provide security, except for specific roles, like air cover, for the games but it looks like they are going to provide the greater majority of it, and how much are the Olympic Organisation going to pay them for it?

The latest, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9399841/Olympics-I-dont-know-if-guards-speak-English-says-G4S-chief.html, says;

He {Lord Coe} also hinted at a request for further troops to be deployed on top of the 3,500 extra soldiers, Marines and air force personnel already drafted in at the last minute. That would take the number on duty in the Olympics above its current level of 17,000. Senior staff officers are said to be prepared for a further request for troops.

Senior military officers told The Daily Telegraph this week that they expect up to 20,000 uniformed personnel to be involved in the Olympic operation. Mr Buckles has been summoned to appear before the home affairs committee of MPs on Tuesday.

The article also says that G4S is only contracted to provide 10,400 civilian guards.

I think it's too early to say yet where the blame really lies.

Incorrect!

EU, Government (not neccessarily current one),SIA,IOC,LOCOG,Police,Forces High Command,G4S & they all have one thing in common!

Too many of them are sitting in their ivory towers with air conditioners providing "rarefied" air - so much oxygen missing from that atmosphere that their brain cells have stopped thinking of the effects of their ideas/decisions are having at ground level.

Before anyone berates that post I suggest they research EU Rules & Regulations more deeply & once they've done that, research the SIA deeper.

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Execellent post & totally agree. Time for all this B/S to end & have nations get back to basics in providing the basics to its citizens.

I've said it in the past & I'll say it again.....

It's about time we got our own "Elliot Ness"!

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Some "entertaining" reading...

G4S 1st Class training centres

G4S admits it's failures

Fawlty Towers - 2012 version

The following link shows what other "politicans" should be doing.... Well done Tessa, keep it up, your putting your colleagues to shame!

Dame that fired the starting gun

Edit: some advice to those attending the Olympics...leave your mobile & credit cards at home... :)

The Fraudster's Olympics

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Post 1 @ 11.31am
Post 2 @ 11.34am
Post 3 @ 11.45am

EU, Government (not neccessarily current one), SIA, IOC, LOCOG, Police, Forces High Command, G4S & they all have one thing in common!

Too many of them are sitting in their ivory towers with air conditioners providing "rarefied" air - so much oxygen missing from that atmosphere that their brain cells have stopped thinking of the effects of their ideas/decisions are having at ground level.

OK folks, Sirius is not a very happy bunny this weekend, nobody anywhere is any good for anything. So, let's just nuke the whole world and start again. See you all on Monday under the new world order. Aldous Huxley would be proud of us!

Your White Collar Civil Serfant past is showing through...

2 of those posts were replies, the other a post...

So in your "Good Book" only t**t's like you are allowed to make comments & any replies that you dislike, you rubbish?

tut,tut,tut, think you should spend more time in the pub, maybe our economy might get a bigger boost!

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May warned about G4S 10 months ago

The Culture Minister Jeremy C has popped his head round the door: -

"But Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt today defended the beleaguered security giant, insisting it was 'completely normal' for contractors on projects like the London Olympics to fail to meet their commitments".

WHY?

Think it's about time these problems become Abnormal!

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I don't know why G4S could not recruit the security staff needed when we have an increasing supply of youngish retired or redundant ex-police. They would need little training, be better in odd-order situations and are available if approached.

Apparently, there is a web site for these people, looking for a job, which gets over 10,000 hits a month from the relevant individuals.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

Some already have John & this is the results: -

"A former police sergeant who signed up to work for G4S at the Olympics has told how he withdrew his application over fears the recruitment process was "totally chaotic" and the firm was simply looking for cheap labour.

Robert Brown, who served for 30 years with Kent police, claimed he knew many other retired officers who had decided against working at the Games for the same reasons.

He said he had been given verbal commitments that staff would be paid £14 an hour, but that the contract he received said he would be entitled to £6.05 an hour for working outside the venues, and £8.50 for working inside the stadium".

Source: - link in a previous post entitled "G4S Recruitment chaotic".

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